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BeBa - Beyond Balance

Discussion in 'CivBE - Released Mods' started by albie_123, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. albie_123

    albie_123 Modding In Secret

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Sydney, NSW


    BeBa - Beyond Balance
    Because We're All Experts on Balance After 24 Hours of Gameplay

    Steam Workshop Page

    Beyond Earth at release is an incredibly fun and enthralling game that has already kept me (and no doubt many others) up all night. The new systems are great, the graphics are incredibly appealing, and the setting is fantastic. But just like every Firaxis game at release, the balance is utterly laughable. Trade routes are immensely overpowered. A handful of strategies are far more viable than any alternative. The available 'choices' are hilariously one-sided. Some leaders are objectively better than others (and with only eight to choose from, that's not too good). Etc., etc., etc. It's early days for sure, and there are plenty of people who are willing to wait for a patch or accept the odd balancing as a 'feature', but when you consider that many of the balance issues were noticed far before release and went unchanged, I have a feeling that - at least for now - it's up to us.

    Enter Beyond Balance (or the cute 'BeBa' for short). This is a project in the same vein as Thalassicus' communitas, and like communitas, it's starting small. Right now, only a handful of changes have been made to fix glaring errors in balance, and certain problems such as quest rewards have not been addressed. All changes have been made based off of comments in this forum and my own experiences. Importantly, all changes are up for discussion, alteration or deletion. I believe that a modder should try his or her very best to not get attached to any changes, and so if the vast majority of the userbase feels a change is shoddy, it'll go, end of story. :)

    The goals of this patch, in no particular order, are:

    • BALANCE - Creating a game where no single playstyle or system is vastly superior to its alternatives.
    • CHOICE - Giving the player a wide option of pathways to follow, creating a unique game each playthrough.
    • FUN - Well, duh. :p

    This mod, like any other successful balance patch, will be a collaborative effort, and any and all suggestions are welcome! I'll be keeping an eye to the forums for complaints about either Beyond Earth or this mod in particular, so please do complain away!

    Current Changes:

    :c5war: Units:
    Spoiler :
    Explorers now have 6 Strength.
    Planet Carver is now unlocked at Orbital Automation to prevent rushing.

    :c5citizen: Leaders:
    Spoiler :
    Kozlov - Orbital units last 30% longer, and quantity of Petroleum and Geothermal doubled.
    Barre - +10% Food in growing Cities when Healthy, and +2 Food from Plantations.
    Rejinaldo - Units have +10% Strength in melee combat and may move after attacking.

    :c5trade: Trade:
    Spoiler :
    Trade Depot now only grants a single trade route.
    Autoplant Quest now grants extra production instead of a trade route.
    Internal Trade Routes have been nerfed by 50%.
    +1 Trade Route in the Capital.

    :tourism: Seeding Options:
    Spoiler :
    Artists and Aristocrats health bonus removed.
    New colonist added: Medician, +1 Health in each city.
    Refugees give 3 Food to each city, up from 2.

    :c5citizen: Cities:
    Spoiler :
    Mass Digesters now give 1 Production and 1 Food on Forests.
    Specialists have been buffed.

    :c5citystate: Stations:
    Spoiler :
    Stations now spawn slightly later.
    Stations spawn further away from cities and outposts, but closer to other stations.
    Stations have increased combat strength.

    :c5science: Technology:
    Spoiler :
    Clear Miasma moved earlier to Ecology.
    Miasmic Repulsor moved later to Terraforming.
    Array Science Bonus now unlocked at Astrodynamics.

    :health: Health:
    Spoiler :
    Pharmalabs gives 3 Health up from 2.
    Manufactory costs 1 Health down from 2.
    Eudaimonia reduces Unhealthiness by 15% down from 25%.
    Magnasanti gives 0.1 Health per building down from 0.2.

    :c5razing: Aliens and AI:
    Spoiler :
    Siege Worms less likely to spawn when Aliens are passive.
    Aliens are more likely to defend their nests.
    The AI’s decision making in terms of unit placement, grand strategy and economics has been improved. This addition comes entirely from the generous contribution of Delnar_Ersike of the CivFanatics forums, and is greatly appreciated. A separate mod of just the AI component will be uploaded to the workshop at a later date.

    :c5goldenage: Misc:
    Spoiler :
    Affinities now level faster early game and slower late game.
    Purity level 1 and 3 perks swapped.
    Magrails are now much faster to build.
     
  2. albie_123

    albie_123 Modding In Secret

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,380
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW
    Version Log:

    Spoiler :

    v.111:
    Spoiler :
    BUG FIXES:
    Unit UI fixed.
    AI diplomacy fixed.

    v.110:
    Spoiler :
    BUG FIXES:
    Specialist icons fixed.

    UNITS:
    Explorers now have 5 Strength have +50% Strength on defence, but have had their bonus expedition removed.

    TRADE:
    +1 Trade Route in the Capital.

    SPONSORS:
    Kozlov UA: Orbital units last 30% longer, and quantity of Petroleum and Geothermal doubled.
    Rejinaldo UA: Units have +10% Strength in melee combat and may move after attacking.

    SEEDING OPTIONS:
    Artists and Aristocrats health bonus removed.
    New colonist added: Medician, +1 Health in each city.
    Refugees give 3 Food to each city, up from 2.

    BUILDINGS AND IMPROVEMENTS:
    Mass Digesters now give 1 Production and 1 Food on Forests.
    Magrails are now much faster to build.

    STATIONS:
    Stations now spawn slightly later.
    Stations spawn further away from cities and outposts, but closer to other stations.
    Stations have increased combat strength.

    TECHNOLOGY:
    Clear Miasma moved earlier to Ecology.
    Miasmic Repulsor moved later to Terraforming.

    HEALTH:
    Pharmalabs gives 3 Health up from 2.
    Manufactory costs 1 Health down from 2.
    Eudaimonia reduces Unhealthiness by 15% down from 25%.
    Magnasanti gives 0.1 Health per building down from 0.2.

    AFFINITIES:
    Purity level 1 and 3 perks swapped.

    ALIENS:
    Siege Worms less likely to spawn when Aliens are passive.
    Aliens are more likely to defend their nests.

    AI:
    The AI’s decision making in terms of unit placement, grand strategy and economics has been improved. This addition comes entirely from the generous contribution of Delnar_Ersike of the CivFanatics forums, and is greatly appreciated. A separate mod of just the AI component will be uploaded to the workshop at a later date.

    v.102:
    Spoiler :
    Specialist and Affinity leveling changes.
     
  3. fireundubh

    fireundubh Chieftain

    Joined:
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    11
    What do you think about using OutpostGrowthModifier instead of +Food?

    edit: Although I suppose that's the same modifier used for the Kavithan UA...
     
  4. albie_123

    albie_123 Modding In Secret

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    Sydney, NSW
    That's very similar to the Kavithan UA as you mentioned. I also like 'active' UA's that require some interaction with the game more than passive ones, and feel they bring better balance (some input is required to get the bonus), especially if the AI can use them too!
     
  5. MasterDinadan

    MasterDinadan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    235
    Excellent work so far!
    Would love to see some buffs to specialists - perhaps having them generate less unhealthiness. Makes specialist slots a way to combat low health without having to starve people.
    Some (most) wonders could definitely use improvement as well.
     
  6. albie_123

    albie_123 Modding In Secret

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    Specialists, in my opinion, need to be entirely reworked. As it stands now they're simply not worth the effort.

    Wonders are a tricky one - I haven't built enough of them to find out how they work in regards to quests. I have a feeling that some of the weaker wonders (New Terran Myth) get their strength from optional rewards.
     
  7. MasterDinadan

    MasterDinadan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    235
    I don't think wonders have quests. I've built several (including New Terran Myth) and never got a quest. I also don't see any strings or other data for wonder quests. I just don't think they have any.
     
  8. fireundubh

    fireundubh Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    Messages:
    11
    I think you increased the OrbitalDurationModifier to 25% but that isn't reflected in the trait text.
     
  9. albie_123

    albie_123 Modding In Secret

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    Wow. In that case, New Terran Myth is unforgivably bad. How did that make it to release?!?

    Apologies. Updated the steam workshop file but not the dropbox one. Will fix that in an hour when I'm back on my main PC. :)

    EDIT: Dropbox is being frustrating. For now, use the Steam Workshop.
     
  10. Tayran

    Tayran Chieftain

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    Is it possible to prolong the trade route time and/or add a button to renew the previous route so you dont have to search that list every single time.
     
  11. fireundubh

    fireundubh Chieftain

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    11
  12. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Why does the game stagger the colony drop ship landings? Shouldn't they all land in the 1st turn?

    I had the "ship wreckage" expedition made available after several turns in and before I could clear out the swarms of wolf beetles and drones to get the explorer to it, the Pan Asians drop a city right next to it. Of course they got it because I was fighting the aliens for them it seems.

    Start locations for the AI may need attention. But it could've been "luck of the draw". But with the staggered start for the AI I don't think it is.

    JosEPh
     
  13. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    Not in a Civilization City Atleast
    Some suggestions:

    Make affinity victories available on later in game, right now they happen around turn 250 which is way to quick.

    Nerf academies, they are very powerful.

    Some wonders and policies may be very unbalanced compared to the rest.
     
  14. fireundubh

    fireundubh Chieftain

    Joined:
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    When you're setting up a new game, click the "Advanced Setup" button at the top right.



    Just check "Don't Stagger Starts" and there you go.
     
  15. Captain Fargle

    Captain Fargle Chieftain

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    528
    With regards to rebalancing wonders I'd say one that definitely needs tweaking is The Crawler. 25% Production to other wonders just isn't worth it for the cost involved. I'd say either make it cheaper to build or give it some additional yields.
     
  16. CreepyD

    CreepyD Chieftain

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    Tbh most of the wonders need changing and beefing up.

    I had an idea that if someone builds the final 'map' based structure for any victory, everyone automatically declares war on that faction and the AI adds that structure as a primary target.

    I also agree on later victory, requiring 13 affinity seems too low.
    Maybe it needs raising to 15 or even higher.
     
  17. Graethyenne

    Graethyenne Chieftain

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    Thanks so much for jumping into this already.

    A thought I had (and apologies if this isn't possible).

    If it winds up feeling like the triple nerf to trade routes (from 2 to 1 base, no bonus route from the autoplant and the reduced internal yields), a middle ground might be q route granted at pioneering and a second granted with the building. No third route available and the reduced yields "feels about right" to me. Plus by breaking this out a little, the depot is less of an auto build.

    "+3 routes? totally it every time. +1 over the 1 I get from the tech? Eh, I need the network more."
     
  18. Valessa

    Valessa error 404 - title not found

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    I think 1 Trade route is perfect. That way, they really matter, without making the game evolve around them. 2 would still be too many for my taste. One problem I still have with trade routes are stations - they just can't compete with midgame-cities and thus are still very useless. Especially when you can only have 1 Trade Route per Civ anyway, I feel like their yield could be pushed a lot more. And maybe delay their growth in the process, if that's possible.

    I also agree that wonders should be part of the "to do"-list, although, after some testing, they don't feel THAT underwhelming anymore, because of the much lower influence of trade routes. But they're still somewhat weak.

    And for the love of god, please do something about the utterly useless specialists.
     
  19. Kidd091

    Kidd091 Chieftain

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    Glassboro
    I agree with this, I usually autobuild the depot but only one trade route does seem underpowered.

    Also, I would suggest modularizing the mod into several smaller mods all part of a collection. That way someone could download the Sponsor Balancing even if they didn't agree with the trade route balancing. On one hand it would require the use of several mods at once, but on the other it allows for a more customized experience depending on what the player wants. What do you guys think about that?
     
  20. Xaviarlol

    Xaviarlol Chieftain

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    May 27, 2011
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    199
    I think you should add fixing Siphon Energy (covert ops) to your list of things that need balancing. I'm making 40,000 energy every 42 turns by simply siphoning energy.
     

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