bed_03 - RaR, Demigod, random civ

[Bezhukov]

With those Iro frigates running around, sure didn't feel like an exploit

You'll find that Clippers are so fast (and the coming transports even faster) that it is really unnecessary. From here on out, ships have ATAR, so they move double the listed amount.

 

[ThERat]

btw, forgot to say, your turns were excellent and I know, you are our WLTK champion, but for my turns, WW just hit and the celebrations were cancelled. Since I am quite an RaR idiot, coal means railing is available now? or do we need a certain tech?

which victory are we seeking? I am the warmonger type, but others might prefer some other conditions.

And, is it possible to settle more in Iro land once we make nice with them?

 

[LKendter]

coal means railing is available now? or do we need a certain tech?

lurker's comment: IIRC high explosives allows rails. Steam Engine is just the start of the path.

 

[ThERat]

thanks LK, now loading , need to familiarize again with all those techs

 

[romeothemonk]

I would continue the war to the bitter end. If the rest of the Team wants to make peace I would immeadiately concentrate on making the Inca a non-factor. (Eliminate them)

 

[dmanakho]

Whatever experts decide works for me.

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-turn
newbie again, ok we get the tech we need in 8 for railing
make nice with iro as suggested and get 745g
red lux to 10. would like to take out Inca before revolting

1.1445AD
moving ships so we can attack Inca

IT get naval academy

2.1450AD
declare on inca and land units, unfortunately the 3rd island is occupied by iro units, so sign them up for alliance
pay 300g

IT iro capture Inca town, factory finished in Kyoto go for National gallery in 9

3.1455AD
capture Ancon and Tintagel

bite the bullet and revolt, 2 turns only since we are religious
maximise growth

IT we become Federal Republic

5.1465AD
trade some luxes with iro and Sioux

6.1470AD
we get high explosives in 3, start to trade steam for medicine, grand strategy and 252gpt from Sioux
sell medicine to Celts for 1860g, all they have

IT we get explosives, go for electricity, Celts get Gutenberg

9.1485AD
start railing and realize its very labor intensive

12.1500AD
played 2 turns extra to even out things,
electricity in 4, we can trade sanitation from Sioux.
we got our 1st Admiral of the fleet

maybe we should attack iro again after the deals expire

 

[dmanakho]

Wow!!!
That was a REALLY fast turn around...
Guys, you will have to give me couple of days on this one.
I am up in another SG and my laptop is out of comission so i will have to install RaR update on my home desktop.
Meanwhile, any comments are welcome!

 

[Bezhukov]

Romeo, we had a window of 20-30 turns where we could do some serious damage to the Iros, as their capital was cut off, inhibiting reinforcements. I, for one, would find this excessively boring. Conquering a continent with 7 attack units against 4 defense - who hasn't done something similar many times before. There was also some risk of being overwhelmed ourselves, as we lack any way to defend our own cities short of swarms of our own offense.

Unless we get lazy (like shipping the Iro luxes - big no-no! and letting him have the city I gave the Incas to keep away from him, bigger no-no!, or researching Electricity and killing all our monuments - biggest no-no!), we should be able to outdevelop Hiawatha and explore all RandR has to offer.

ThERat, good job getting rid of the Inca - let's settle those islands so they don't require future visits.

As to my no-nos:

1. Let's keep the embargo on Hiawatha.

2. You could have conquered the Inca city with Colonial Marines (6/3 amphib).

3. I'd advise abandoning the Electricity research and going for City Planning with a prebuild for Eiffel to retain our (doubled) monuments in all our cities. Doc, does this work?

 

[Bezhukov]

We can still fight Hiawatha in short 20 turn bursts without much war weariness, especially if we get him to delare. Not sure what this accomplishes other than harrassment, however. Once we get MGs, wholescale invasion becomes much more palatable.

 

[Bezhukov]

>start railing and realize its very labor intensive

Not a bad idea to set up some of our corrupt cities as 5-turn laborer pumps. We can also now CLEAR MARSH. We can also clear jungle, which doesn't get us much short-term. Marshes are much less productive than jungles, so could use clearing after the core rail net completes.

 

[ThERat]

thanks Bezhukov for highlighting my mistakes. I thought electricity is good, because of the wonder there and we need to have it on the way to better units. but, I am not familiar at all with the tech path in that age.
so, which path is best to go? Sorry for not attacking Incan town ourselves, but it was convenient and got us a 2 turn war, very fast and good for happiness. we got a lot of WLTK towns. unfortunately our capital shrank a little, but due to railing it will grow again and it making >100spt.
Iro and making 350cpt again and we are at 270+, but they can't run away any longer. I agree with romeo to take them on. What's our target victory condition?

 

[Bezhukov]

ThERat, none of this was that that big a deal, so I wouldn't worry about it. The Electricity wonder (Edisons) is so ridiculously expensive to build, it would only be worth getting via sci leader, but we'll lose the culture from Pyramids sooner or later, so no biggie.

To really take out the Iroquois, we would need to dedicate our whole empire to cranking units, and would thus miss a great deal of the fun of RandR for me, which is the much richer Industrial and Modern Ages. To fully enjoy those ages, we've got to get our cities developed, which many are not yet, laregly thanks to the fact that we're playing the extended version with higher build costs.

Fisheries will allow us to work all those costal hills and mountains in the eastern part of our empire, and eventually we'll get all that marsh and swamp cleared and have a lot of very productive cities. We could easily win a space race or sweep through the Iro continent in ten turns with Ha50 armies.

We need to choose one or the other - fighting a half-assed war with the Iro and neglecting our development could lead to a loss.

Sure, we could produce 500 Kensai and overrun the Iroquois, but that's not my idea of fun.

 

[romeothemonk]

I give ThERat a hearty and a if it is allowed. I agree on the abandoning electricity. I would try and build the statue of Liberty in Satsuma. I like the idea of getting the Eifel Tower ASAP.
I think we want 6 wonders from this age. Supreme Court, Statue of Liberty, Emancipation Proclomation, Spirit of St. Louis, Echelon, and Crystal Palace.
We also want the following small wonders: Wall street (In Satsuma), Brokerage firm, National gallery (In Kyoto), Anything militaristic.
I am kinda in the air about The Empire State building. It would be really cool to get SoL, ESB, and SoSL all in Satsuma with the IP and Wall street going nuts on the commerce.
I am putting in a vote for Space, as I have never won space race RaR, nor have I heard of someone doing it.

 

[Bezhukov]

Hear, hear on the toast to ThERat! I'm all for space - I've done it twice, and both times the AI got bogged down in the early MA and wasn't much of a threat (not that my Eurocopters would have let a threat materialize... )

I second all Romeo's motions, but...

Emancipation Proclomation kills our handy Slave Markets, so we'll see about that. Not much bang for the buck there...

 

[romeothemonk]

But it has the grow 2 for 1 ability, something I really like. You only have to play 1 game with Arathorn to realize that Pop is Power. That is kind of why the cities kept growing out of WLTKD, because I believe that Raw pop is more important than a few shields now.
Note: I never had the cities grow out of WLTKD on my watch, they just grew and were not reset. I take some blame because I didn't mention that.

 

[ThERat]

Pop is Power. That is kind of why the cities kept growing out of WLTKD, because I believe that Raw pop is more important than a few shields now.

second that, people = power. I have a problem stopping growth to have WLTK, but that's cos I played too much C3C and too little RaR maybe.

so, we all agree on space, and thanks for all the pointers which wonders to take

btw, since you don't like electricity, is it that we do not need it to advance further up? I thought we eventually need it anyway

 

[Bezhukov]

"few shields now."

Um, it's not a "few" shields, it's literally thousands when all the compounding is taken into account. WLTK cuts waste in half. So if you're making 40 and wasting 30, you get 15 extra spt in WLTK. I learned teh WLTK strategy in the Riade of Rome, Middle Ages, and Napoleonic scenarios, where it is crucial to success, depending on the civ. Ask Doc, it really makes a difference.

Pop does nothing for you if all the commerce it generates is corrupted. In RandR, shields are as powerful as pop, if not more so, because they self-replicate. Once we get Supreme Court and Echelon, then things will be different. Once we get Social Dem, watch out!

 

[Bezhukov]

"I thought we eventually need it anyway"

We can get Eiffel (City Planning) and Refrigeration without it, the two techs we really need to take off. Although it does delay our military development. Might as well finish the research on Electricity if we've already started it. Will need to keep an eye on culture, tho...

 

[ThERat]

Bezhukov, I am happy to explore this WLTKD strategy as I never really paid attention to it. It's also due to the fact that in C3C largers cities mean better unit support, in Republic fringe cities are mere unit supporters rather than actual production centers. communism is of course different, but there is hardly an emphasis on WLTK.

as for culture, Sioux are same level as us, and Iro are no immediate threat, but we might want to raze a few more of their cities to stay safe.

Since electricity is 4 turns away, next player can decide what to do with it. How much culture would we lose?