bed_03 - RaR, Demigod, random civ

[Bezhukov]

I'm guessing 60ish per turn off the bat. Some of that can be replaced, off course. May be worth an Artist Guild run. Or, like you said, razing some Iro cities.

The problem with continuing the Iro war is this. We can continue to fight, but there is risk that Hiawatha buys in an ally of ours, which really hurts our economy (and helps the AI, by freeing up a lot of AI gpt for research). We can of course decrease the likelihood of this by buying in our buddies again, but this commits us for 20 turns. WW might bite pretty hard over those turns, forcing us into Abs Mon, which really bites our overall development.

To make it worthwhile would necessitate devoting more resources to war at this time, which further delays development. I'm not going to be pushing development all game, but by getting what I consider the basics built (production boosters, corruption reducers, the cheap happy, sci, tax, culture, and lux builds, granaries), we have a lot more strategic options long-term.

Our religious trait also makes the WLTK strategy more appealing, we can be happy at larger sizes than without it.

 

[dmanakho]

Question i have...
Do we want to finish researching electricity? Or do we want to change it to something else?

 

[Bezhukov]

Since we've already started it and will ned it eventually, I say go ahead and finish it. We'll just need to pay close attention to culture issues again, tho. If we can get Free Atistry, it makes Artist Guilds worth getting in the core.

 

[Bezhukov]

The next research goals I propose are Refrig and City Planning. As Electricity wasn't on that path, I was a bit confused as to why we went that way, considering also the effect on our culture. This is the best way in my experienec to learn a new mod - having to make tough decisions and looking at the thought process involved.

 

[romeothemonk]

I disagree with Bez. I would not finish electricity, but immeadiatly switch to City Planning, then refrigeration.

 

[LKendter]

lurker's comment: You still have a threat of a 50K loss. You don't want to do anything that weakens your culture. I would forget electricity. The number one priority needs to be improving culture if you really want to go space race.

 

[Bezhukov]

To lose the game on culture, Hiawatha would have to more than double our culture rate. Even with losing Pyramids, he's not close to doing that right now. The Sioux are gaining culture faster than we are already, as I recall.

We need to stay on top of the tech race to keep draining maximum gpt from the AI, and can ill afford to abandon research on an expensive tech halfway through.

 

[romeothemonk]

We would lose 1 to 2 turns of research. To me, it is more important to keep the ~50 culture from the monuments going. Remember this is the extended game, everything costs 20% more, but we get an extra ~400 turns. 1 turn more or less will not hurt us, but 50 cpt could cause us to start another war.
Plus I think the beakers we have invested do not reset, making it cheaper to come back to later.
I do not see swapping tech choices as a negative here, only as a positive.

 

[dmanakho]

Ok...
i will switch to Electricity to Refrig.
I have downloaded RaR will install and hopefully play tonight.

 

[ThERat]

sorry guys to cause so much discussion by chossing the wrong tech.
My focus when selecting wasn't culture, since I think we are relatively safe as long as we don't make less than 50% of Iro culture.
well, at least I am learning a lot from this game.

 

[ThERat]

one more thing, I seem to get a feeling that workers all have the same speed regardless of their upgrading etc. is this a sort of bug? I thought I patched the game, but something seems wrong there.

 

[LKendter]

one more thing, I seem to get a feeling that workers all have the same speed regardless of their upgrading etc. is this a sort of bug? I thought I patched the game, but something seems wrong there.

The state of YOUR game doesn't matter. The question is what version was the game started on. If it is 1.02 the workers are screwed.

 

[Bezhukov]

"Plus I think the beakers we have invested do not reset, making it cheaper to come back to later."



One of those new tricks!



I thought we had four turns invested. If what Romeo says is true, and I have no reason to doubt it is, I'll second the switch.

 

[Bezhukov]

"My focus when selecting wasn't culture, since I think we are relatively safe as long as we don't make less than 50% of Iro culture."

As I argued as well, but but better safe than sorry. That question aside, do you agree that Refrigeration does more for us at this point than Electricity? What are the pros and cons that led you to the latter?

 

[dmanakho]

pre-turn:
From what i've heard we want to get either city planning or regrigeration.
We have to research 3 pre-requesites before we get Refrig. ToE is one of them and i think i will go this way
Built of ToE will give us 2 free techs right there.
And i have to research 2 prerequesites before i can start doing city planning.
After some thinking i will go towards Refrig 1st and then to city planning. I want to get ToE before Ais do
I can do good trades.. On a bad side. I can't sign Brennus and Sioux trade embargo. They already having active trades with Iro's so we missed our chance. However i can trade.
Sold HighExp. to Sioux for 120gold+Sanitation+289GPT
Sold sanitation to Celts for 260Gold+80GPT

We have money and i can't keep money. I will spend some of the cash we accumulated rushing buildings. Spent almost all we have. Sorry abou tthat. We still make 443GPT.
I see we trade with Iros and will do for another 13 turns.. I guess we should put in bold letters somewhere and officially prohibit trading with Iro's. Now i see why other two AIs don't want to sign trade embargo - we are trading
ourselves with the guys we want embargo against
Hitting next turn here.


IBT. Cuzco caphedral -> town clock; Machu Picchu bazaar->academy; Tokyo factory->marketplace; Pucara bazaar->windmill;
Larry something->factory; kagoshima bank->guild hall; Bob guildhall->marketplace; Hilltown market->school of scribes;
YOkohama bank->caphedral; Sado forge->windmill; Sapporo market->toll house; New Osaka kensai->kensai;Inca be gone

theater->guild hall; Izumu market->library;
T1. Nothing really. we don't have enough workers.

IBT. Kyotu has pollution problem and National gallery is built start pre-build for ToE.
Chan-Chan forge->wind mill; Cupisnique court->shrine; Huari library->basilica; Suo library->toll house;Citadel townclock->academy

T2. 1510AD. Cleaning pollution and building rails around Kyoto first.

IBT. Extend lux deal with celts and this time they pay us more money
Bizen court-Caphedral; Welcome back romeo laborer->laborer; shimonoseky laborer->laborer. Izumu library->school of scribes

T3. 1515AD. Rush monument and harbor in our island colonies.

IBT. Nara riots ;-( Sapporo toll house->laborer; Tintagel harbor->monument; Ancon monument->harbor;

T4. 1520AD Switch Nara to caphedral and hire one clown.Oka produced Royal Gard and i rush court there. Hire clowns there to generate WLTKD. Sold Steam engine to Celts for 39gold and 229gpt

IBT. Extending lux deal with Sioux and they pay as more gpt than previously. ToE comes swith to Social Darwinism in 5 but i may adjust depending on how long will it take to build ToE. People of Oka finished court and celebrate WLKT. switch it to Temple. Fukushima univ->theater; Satsuma national library->market; Mara caphedral->guild hall; New Osaka Kensai->Kensai. Tokyo market->laborer

T5. 1525AD. Switch Kyoto to ToE in 11 - join one worker and it will be ready in 10.

IBT. Extend Iron deal with Sioux but this time they pay 60gpt instead of 16.
Tokyo laborer->laborer (will regrow in 1 turn); Kagoshima theater->school of scribes; Citadel academy->guild hall;
Sado laborer->laborer; sapporo laborer->laborer; celts are building TajMahal

T6. 1530AD Both Celts and Sioux know stell but i will ignore them and won't trade ToE away. Rush temple in Oka;

IBT: Tokyo laborer->theater; Oka temple->basilica; Chimbote townclock->guild hall; Cupisnique shrine->temple;
Huari basilica->town clock; Suo toll house->theater; sapporo laborer->academy; Switched Kagoshima to laborer.

T7. 1535AD. Worker tasks.

IBT. Bizen cathedral->library; fukushima theater->cathedral; Satsuma market->bank; kagoshima laborer->laborer; Bob market->theater; Yokohama cathedral->theater

T8. 1540AD. Nothing.

IBT. MachuPuchu Academy->library; Hilltown school of scribes->toll house; sado laborer->laborer; New Osaka kensai->kensai; Izumu school of scribes ->toll house

T9. 1545AD. Nothing.

IBT. Soc. Darvinism comes switch to Corporation in 5 turns. Just in time to get ToE build Steel traded from AIs and 2 free techs claimed; Kagoshima laborer->laborer; Nara guild hall->factory it also produced Admiral.

T10. 1550AD. Oh this is not working, ToE to be ready in 4 turns (rail road was built=more shields) and Corporation in 5 turns. I can switch to Modern Legal system in 4 and then we should be able to get tech and have ToE build the same turn and then claim 2 free techs.
All AIs are also up Naval Tactics. We must end trading with Iros and sign embargo against them. Celts and Sioux make their income on selling Iro's techs we sell them. I believe We must end this practice.
I rushed monument and harbor in our island towns. We can also disband New Osaka and move it one tile north.
That will become Iron works city.

We might also want to start wonder pre-build in Satsuma.

That's all folks..
As usually Bezhukov and Romeo please let me know how i did and what were the mistakes i made.

 

[dmanakho]

 

[ThERat]

We must end trading with Iros and sign embargo against them. Celts and Sioux make their income on selling Iro's techs we sell them. I believe We must end this practice.

just wonder why are we so scared of Iro? I made that deal since we made nice with them and I guess we won't attack them soonish (judging from Bez's comments who does not want to steamroll them)
Of course, we can sign trade embargos, but that will overall just decrease the speed of the game. If we want a SS win, we should not get bogged down with MM in the late game for too long, this can get pretty boring.

I personally would not mind a faster tech speed as long as we are on top of that.

 

[Bezhukov]

Great work, Dman, all looks good from here.

If it's not too late, I'd say stick with corporation and hire a specialist in Kyoto or something if necessary (the tech cost might also come down during research. Modern Legal is an optional tech and can be traded for later. I've never seen the AI build the Supreme Court. On the other hand, I've never needed the court like we do in this game, so might as well go ahead and get it. Six of one...

The Court requires 3 District Courts, so if we could have those ready soon, would be nice. Good use for some of that cash.

the main goal of shutting out the Iros was keeping them unhappy. They are large enough to cause several problems if we do not keep them well supplied with entertainers.

 

[romeothemonk]

I think I am up.
Not much to criticize, but I like war. I guess I will try and set up some builder stuff.
I will try and play on Thursday evening or Friday morning.

 

[Bezhukov]

Feel free to war on, Romeo, if war can fit into our strategic objectives. It's Bed's game, not Bez's. War that makes winning more difficult is my only concern. I believe we already have sufficient units to do some damage, although defending any gains could be difficult.

On the other hand, getting fisheries set up in our coastal cities, the Supreme Court built, and our workforce beefed up could really let us do whatever we want by your next turnset.