Bede01:Funny thing happened...

[Sir Bugsy]

OK last dot map for a while.

Green dots are a potential way of settling the jungle.

Not sure about blue or yellow dot. It will depend on what is under the fog.

Pink dot needs to be somewhat high on our list to cut off that choke. Especially if we find someone up there.

@ scout - I just saw your very first map with the red dot by the fish - my aqua dot. I think that needs to be priority number one. Run a blockade until you can get a settler there.

We're gonna need a lot of workers and a lot of settlers. When in doubt, build one of those.

 

[T_McC]

Couldn't help but notice in your picture of Cumae a few posts back ...

A second-ring city on a standard map should not have its first 3 shields and trade uncorrupted. I don't think this SG was designed to be corruption-less, so I would check to see if any corruption exists in your entire empire.

This has happened in another game that Cuivienen and Slinger (and I) have played, and I suspect it is related to participants in CVN1. Somehow that BIC is being imported as the default for all games. Just a guess, though.

For this game it probably doesn't matter, but if it stays corruption-free the difficulty and tech pace (and unit production) will feel like Deity. If any civ starts to run away, it will probably be like playing against the Sid AI.

Good Investigating!

 

[Sir Bugsy]

This could be a less than optimal situation.

Is it possible that something transferred over from CVN1 when Cuivienen played? I didn't think that was possible, but we definitately have zero corruption.

 

[scoutsout]

I'm not sure I quite get the gist of those last 2 posts... Are we worried about corruption-less AIs? Are we sure our current low corruption rate isn't due to being a commercial civ with just a handful of cities, or is our corruption absolutely zero?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If you look at the picture of Cumae - there is no corruption. Since there is at least one city between Cumae and Rome you would expect at least some corruption - 1 shield at least.

If we don't have any corruption and the AI does, then we have an unfair advantage.

If the AI doesn't have any corruption, T is right, this is going to turn into a SID level game.

 

[yoshi74]

From the experience in Sling1: when the same happend in this game too, the ai also has no corruption. So no special unfair advantage. But when the ai settles you out your more behind than with corruption. Also your commercial trait isn't much worth anymore without corruption.

 

[T_McC]

Heh, I just took a look at the save ...

You have zero corrupt shields and last trade in your entire empire. (Easiest way to check this in on F1)

Hard to tell, but the Arabs appear to have no corruption/waste as well. Can only investigate a single size 2 city.

No corruption = Much more money available in the world = More shields for the AI = Effectively higher discount on each unit/tech for the AI = Higher difficulty

 

[scoutsout]

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
If the AI doesn't have any corruption, T is right, this is going to turn into a SID level game.

*gulp* Well, at least we won't have to dump a ton of shields into a bunch of courthouses...and we can use the FP to pre-build... something....

 

[Sir Bugsy]

OK, so we know we have this situation. As long as we know about it we can deal with it.

Do we know how it happened and how we can prevent it from happening in the future?

 

[Gengis Khan]

lurker's comment:
That sure threw a wrench in things. Will be intresting to see how this one plays out.

edit- Kinda ironic when you look at the name of the game.
[relurk]

 

[barbslinger]

I just opened up a diety game I started last night and I have plenty of corruption in my outer cities. I don't think it is from me. Perhaps we can reopen from where I saved to hand off to Cuivienen and someone else plop Cumae down as a test to see if we can isolate that it is Cuivienen's software somehow doing this. We can then help her out to get this remedied.

 

[scoutsout]

Maybe we could recruit GK to do a little testing for us...

Edit: How sure are we that we're all running 1.15?

 

[Bede]

Verry interesting.....

We'll have to wery, wery quiet....

I genned the start and uploaded it before joining CVN1...

then Slinger played 20....

then Cuivienen....

and I played my turns before loading any CVN1 files on a machine that had no contact with any files from Cuivienen other than Bede01...

Have downloaded all the saves and will try test suggested above.

@GK, would you be so kind as to dl Slinger's save and build a couple of towns, one in second ring? TIA

 

[Bede]

So here's the scoop.

1) Downloaded Sling's save and Cuivienen's save to fresh ZIP disk
2) Started C3C 1.15 and loaded Sling's save from the ZIP
3) Built Veii in same position
4) Here's the result

3) Restarted C3C
4) Loaded Cuivienen's save from ZIP
5) Here's the result:

The "corruptionless" corruption emerged on Cuivienen's watch.

So, we know the source, but not what to do about it, nor how to help Cuivienen avoid this "feature" in the future.

Two choices I see (for this game):

1) Replay from Sling's save to end of my round.
2) "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead", play on with what we have and have a ball against wild horse AI's. When we get our hat handed to us we can just restart like the Sling1 gang.

Any other options?

BTW, to T_McC for the sharp eye. And, yes, I got rid of the coat hangars.

 

[barbslinger]

I vote for replaying from my save. As for what to do about Cuivienen's settings I think we will have to refer her to the specialists. Perhaps we can start a thread in the tech help area. I really don't know. I think it may stem from her Not so corrupted Romans game somehow.

 

[scoutsout]

Well...since we're rethinking things, I'll plan on doing something besides those turns tonight...

I looked in the CVN1 thread, and noted the Cuinieven had installed v1.20 at one point, and then backed up to 1.15b. Is there a chance that this 'downgrade' might be the source of the problem? I also note that v1.22 is out now, and usually when theres a ".0X" software release it's because something was buggy in the preceding version...

As for "where do we go from here"... I hate to throw out all that city planning, yet at the same time, we would probably do some things differently the second time around... mixed emotions here... (and dangit, i thought I'd found a way to get the temple AND the settler in 6 turns...)

(edited a typo)

 

[Bede]

I've got all the logs, including Cuivienen's so I'll undertake to follow them as closely as I can to the end of my round.

Keep cool, scout, you'll still get a chance to try your temple/settler combo.

 

[Bede]

Poem for the Day:

Boadicea: An Ode

William Cowper (1731–1800)


WHEN the British warrior queen,
Bleeding from the Roman rods,
Sought, with an indignant mien,
Counsel of her country’s gods,

Sage beneath a spreading oak
Sat the Druid, hoary chief;
Every burning word he spoke
Full of rage, and full of grief.

‘Princess! if our aged eyes
Weep upon thy matchless wrongs,
’Tis because resentment ties
All the terrors of our tongues.

‘Rome shall perish—write that word
In the blood that she has spilt;
Perish, hopeless and abhorred,
Deep in ruin as in guilt.

‘Rome, for empire far renowned,
Tramples on a thousand states;
Soon her pride shall kiss the ground—
Hark! the Gaul is at her gates!

‘Other Romans shall arise,
Heedless of a soldier’s name;
Sounds, not arms, shall win the prize—
Harmony the path to fame.

‘Then the progeny that springs
From the forests of our land,
Armed with thunder, clad with wings,
Shall a wider world command.

‘Regions Cæsar never knew
Thy posterity shall sway,
Where his eagles never flew,
None invincible as they.’

Such the bard’s prophetic words,
Pregnant with celestial fire,
Bending, as he swept the chords
Of his sweet but awful lyre.

She, with all a monarch’s pride,
Felt them in her bosom glow;
Rushed to battle, fought, and died;
Dying, hurled them at the foe.

‘Ruffians, pitiless as proud,
Heaven awards the vengeance due:
Empire is on us bestowed,
Shame and ruin wait for you.’

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I like that plan - Bede replays based on turnlogs and reposts save.

 

[scoutsout]

Good plan, good poem - though I think my sig is better for this game; since after all, we are the Romans...