Beefin up Octopus Overlords

[rocklikeafool]

I'm doin a new modmod project for the Octopus Overlords religion.

Ok, so I think Octopus Overlords should have a few more benefits. I like how they're very evil already, but I think they should have water walkin settlers, as is discussed here bout the Lunan havin those http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=280130.

If anyone else agrees (or disagrees), please post bout it. Feel free to suggest anythin and post your thoughts. Anyway, expect this soon. In the meantime, discuss. I'll add in anythin I think would be cool AND makes sense.

P.S.: I know this is a lil vague atm, but I need to define the overall idea more. When I do, I'll edit this post and make it easier for you guys to unnerstand my overall picture for this modmod. Please be patient in the meantime and post your thoughts bout my vague idea.

 

[DuckAndCower]

I'd like to see some more Lovecraftian references in OO. At the very least, I'd like to see them play with the idea of madness more.

 

[Tarquelne]

I like giving the OO an advantage with Slavery and have the OO Temples reduce the unhappiness due to "hurrying" a build with population.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

In my version, OO will probably become weaker in the early to mid game, but will be awesome in the mid to late game. (Not all of these will be read soon.)



In my version no basic priest requires its state religion, but there spells do. A water walking priest anyone can build is too much, so Cultists are losing the ability. Tsunami also seems a little overpowered, so I'll make it even stronger ( adding a chance to temporarily change land to water) and move it to Water III.

Cultists will probably again have summon Floating Eye (Metamagic I will instead create a temporary/requires-caster Ring of Warding building, which gives 20% magic resistance to units in the city), and something else (I'm not sure what yet)


I just got to thinking that it would be really cool to add lots of INVISIBLE_SUBMERGED sea monsters that, like land animals, can't enter national border while under barbarian control. I would then let only OO UUs see INVISIBLE_SUBMERGED units, and give OO priests a spell ("Call to the Deep Ones"?) that, like Mesmerize, gives them a chance to capture these units without combat but still based on relative strength. I might remove Krakens as a summon, but have lots of them out at sea for OO priests to try to capture and use against enemies. Cultists would be able to do it, but Speakers would have a much better change of success (and wouldn't need a ship to go and and find the beasts). I'm thinking failure might cause the caster to become crazed...and success may leave the monster crazed, so you won't keep control for all that long.


Drowns will be unbuildable, and can't upgrade. They are only created by sacrificing a living (non-immortal) melee unit, and will have strength based on that units strength. (Drowned Phalanxes are quite nice, as are drowned Heroes.) (I've been making the spell work like this since 0.20, but the functions I had to use were changed in the BtS conversion. Before that, I let them upgrade and they held on to their extra strength. I could sacrifice Losha for a stronger Drown, then upgrade it to an insanely strong Eidolon. Without checking for the immortal promotion, I could do this every turn (well, most had to stay Stygian Guards). After the conversion the extra strength doesn't carry over. I removed upgrading because I think the AI was upgrading str 20 units to str 6 units, or something like that.)


Drowns, Stygian Guards, and Saverous will have water walking, but be unable to enter Oceans until Malevolent Designs

(I think I'll also make it so that when Valin kills Saverous his owner gets a Saverous_redeemed unit, which is basically an oversized warrior with Strong. This is mostly for flavor)




Speakers will have a spell that grants a temporary water walking promotion to their whole stack.

(The starting settler promotion will allow water walking too, so you could position your capital on an island f you plan to be OO if you like.)

The New Coastal Coral Feature will be impassible to ships, but not water walking units, so they have a strategic advantage.

There will probably be some unitcombat_naval promotions only OO civs can get.

Ships in general will probably be stronger (and all be able to enter Oceans after Astronomy), but Boarding will be available to all melee units with amphibious and combat 5. Water Walking Boarding units are the best.


(One of?) The OO cathedrals/advanced temples will grant +1 on all water tiles in the city radius.

 

[rocklikeafool]

In my version, OO will probably become weaker in the early to mid game, but will be awesome in the mid to late game.



In my version no basic priest requires its state religion, but there spells do. A water walkign priest anyone can build is too much, so Culsists are losing the ability. Tsunami also seems a little overpowered, so I'll make it even stronger and move it to Water III.

Cultists will probably again have summon Floating Eye (Metamagic I will instead create a requires caster ring of warding building), and something else (I'm not sure what yet.) I may also let them see and capture sea monsters that are usually unseen until they strike.


Drowns will be unbuildable, and can't upgrade. They are only created by sacrificing a living (non-immortal) melee unit, and will have strength based on that units strength. (Drowned Phalanxes are quite nice, as are drowned Heroes.)


Drowns, Stygian Guards, and Saverous will have water walking, but be unable to enter Oceans until Malevolent Designs


The New Coastal Coral Feature will be impassible to ships, but not water walking units, so they have a strategic advantage.


Speakers will have a spell that grants a temporary water walking promotion to their whole stack.

There will probably be some unitcombat_naval promotions only OO civs can get.


(One of?) The OO cathedrals/advanced temples will grant +1 on all water tiles in the city radius.

Damn. I really wanna borrow some of your code. Course, I'll prolly incorporate some things you won't. That way mine and yours will be unique on the OO and give people two options in that area. Course, yours is much bigger and more ambitious.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I'd like to see some more Lovecraftian references in OO. At the very least, I'd like to see them play with the idea of madness more.

Hmmm...madness. Sounds like somethin I'm lookin for. Ok, I'll put that into a more a developed form and change the first post. Btw, if you have any more defined thoughts bout it, please tell me.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I like giving the OO an advantage with Slavery and have the OO Temples reduce the unhappiness due to "hurrying" a build with population.

AH, there's somethin else to be added. I'll edit it into the first post too.

Keep the thoughts comin, people.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Here's a question for you guys, on the subject of madness. Do you think the current system with its use of the "enraged" and "crazed" promotions is too weak? (Granted, the only unit with those two promotions is the Lunatic. Tho, more could be done with those anyway.) If so, wat do you think would be a viable solution to strengthen but NOT overpower it?
Also, do you think the 3% chance to become a barbarian ("Enraged" promotion) should be removed? Keep in mind that if the Lunatic is sent out of your territory to go into unsettled territory, it will most likely go barbarian. (Course, it takes time, but it still goes barbarian sooner or later in supposed "wild country". Hint: Never send these guys explorin; you will lose them.) AND we all hate that. You spend hammers to build it and it says, "F*ck you, boss! I'm too nuts to be in your army; I'm goin barbarian!" (Crazed laughter follows.) Waste of time and resources, right? So, should it stay or should it go?

P.S.: Ever notice how the AI, even with the new AI "intellegence" upgrades, never builds the Lunatic? Maybe it's cuz it knows that it might jus go barb. Plus, it requires the Aesylum buildin, which is useful but needs some work to make this "madhouse" more "mad".

Edit: In response to my second question, I know some of you will say, "Then jus don't send it into unsettled territory". Well, no offense, but that's not wat I'm askin. I'm askin if the 3% chance to go barbarian ("Enraged" promotion) should go or stay.

 

[mimic]

For a 3% chance it seems to happen an awful lot...

 

[rocklikeafool]

That's part of my point. So, I take it you want it gone, mimic?

 

[Tarquelne]

You could have any number of promos. that require OO. Give them fitting names and buttons and you could add a lot to the feel and abilities of the OOs. To reflect their "OOness" some (many? all?) promos. could come with a betrayal and/or expiration chance.

Like, say, water walking that might suddenly vanish when you're in the middle of the ocean.

Though, come to think of it, a series of religion requiring/appropriate promos could work even better for Esus.

For Lunatics: Maybe start them with Hidden Nationality and perhaps even a higher betrayal chance? It might be fun to have such Lunatics "spawned" unpredictably from cities with Asylums.

 

[scutarii]

maybe this is too strong but Lanun with OO should be able to settle cities to water, not instantly but there has to be certain "building" time with workers, meanwhile your "developing" city attracts many sea monsters and you can never know when storm approaches.

I mean, at first settler builds it like kuriotates settlement but with workers you can "build" it to city, after this financial maintenance and distance penalties will come into effect.

 

[rocklikeafool]

You could have any number of promos. that require OO. Give them fitting names and appropriate buttons and you could add a lot to the feel and abilities of the OOs. To reflect their "OOness" some (many? all?) promos. could come with a betrayal and/or expiration chance.

Like, say, water walking that might suddenly vanish when you're in the middle of the ocean.

Hmm...that might be cool. I'll have to think bout it tho.

For Lunatics: Maybe start them with Hidden Nationality and perhaps even a higher betrayal chance? It might be fun to have such Lunatics "spawned" unpredictably from cities with Asylums.

By spawned I assume you mean in the same manner as the Planar Gate units for the Sheaim and the Kahdi gate units?

 

[rocklikeafool]

maybe this is too strong but Lanun with OO should be able to settle cities to water, not instantly but there has to be certain "building" time with workers, meanwhile your "developing" city attracts many sea monsters and you can never know when storm approaches.

I mean, at first settler builds it like kuriotates settlement but with workers you can "build" it to city, after this financial maintenance and distance penalties will come into effect.

Hmm...this seems like an expansion of the thread that I linked in my first post. I like it. But instead of jus makin it a Lunan thing, it's gonna be a OO thing. I maintained the same thing in my posts in that thread that's linked.

 

[MiKa523]

I'd like to see Tsunami nerfed a little bit and then make it work on river tiles to make it more useful on certain maps.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Nerfed how?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You could have any number of promos. that require OO. Give them fitting names and buttons and you could add a lot to the feel and abilities of the OOs. To reflect their "OOness" some (many? all?) promos. could come with a betrayal and/or expiration chance.

Like, say, water walking that might suddenly vanish when you're in the middle of the ocean.

Though, come to think of it, a series of religion requiring/appropriate promos could work even better for Esus.

For Lunatics: Maybe start them with Hidden Nationality and perhaps even a higher betrayal chance? It might be fun to have such Lunatics "spawned" unpredictably from cities with Asylums.

I was planning to give all the religions several unique promotions. One problem right not though is that you can only have State Religion requirements, and I'd rather only units of the religion get the promotion.

I've requested for Kael, Xienwolf, and Vehem to add it, but they haven't yet. I was also thinking it could be good to expose canPromotte to python, so you could block specific units (by unit type, civ, civic, religion, terrain, level, score, strength...whatever you want)



I was planning to have Water Walking (or a promotion with the same effect which an OO high priest could give to all unit in his stack) randomly wear off. I believe that in vanilla Civ that would make the unit be stuck on their water square, but now those units would be moved to the nearest land tile (excluding those within the borders of rivals with whom they don't have open borders)





Hmm...what if Lunatics weren't HN, but were AlwaysHostile. This means that they could attack and be attacked without declaring war, but everyone knows whose they are. This tag already exists for units, and in mods including xienwolf's xml modcomp it can also be given by promotions (although the tag has a different name)

Spawning randomly could be interesting. It is probably too much for it to be a common occurance though. It could be nice if OO civs could get a random event that creates lunatics.

 

[mimic]

^^ I like this idea, it's better than your units always turning barbarian so you might get some use out of them.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well, I'll do somethin similar.

 

[scutarii]

for lanun only sea cities should give additional 50% building speed for improvements and buildings.