Beginner's Beginner Strategy

[jeffthewookiee]

I've read through several of the articles on for civ beginners, but I still haven't exactly found the answers I'm looking for.

I've just moved up to Prince difficulty and on most games I find myself falling behind in practically everything (according to the demographics) very early on. By about 300AD I'm last in everything, except for income (Playing George Washington).

Am I failing to expand fast enough? How many military units should I build to defend myself? How is the computer so stinkin' fast?

Any helps appreciated.

 

[Sjaramei]

The computer cheats so you have to beat him down to get the upper hand back. Don't get units to "defend" get units to attack and get more land!

If you are last at 300 AD you should really consider axe rushing a neighbor in the BC's. Proper abuse of whipping/chopping can give you the axes you need very quick. (6+ axes and you are good to go, just put CityRaider on most of them )

And unless you post your save it's difficult pointing out your mistakes (if there are any )

Oh and consider another leader than George when moving up a difficulty, pick one of the easier ones instead. (Ceasars and the like, you know them well ) If you are playing Vanilla it should be all good, but you didn't mention which version so..

 

[jeffthewookiee]

The computer cheats so you have to beat him down to get the upper hand back. Don't get units to "defend" get units to attack and get more land!

If you are last at 300 AD you should really consider axe rushing a neighbor in the BC's. Proper abuse of whipping/chopping can give you the axes you need very quick. (6+ axes and you are good to go, just put CityRaider on most of them )

And unless you post your save it's difficult pointing out your mistakes (if there are any )

Oh and consider another leader than George when moving up a difficulty, pick one of the easier ones instead. (Ceasars and the like, you know them well ) If you are playing Vanilla it should be all good, but you didn't mention which version so..

DIdn't realize George was a harder leader to use than the rest. Why is that?

 

[Sjaramei]

DIdn't realize George was a harder leader to use than the rest. Why is that?

In Warlords he is Charismatic/Expansive, so no easy good economy from the start. He isn't "bad", but being an American Leader (late UU and UB) you wont get very much help from him early on either.

In Vanilla he is the economic monster, so if you are playing that he should be a good pick for peaceful victories.

 

[madscientist]

GW is the strongest in Vanilla (my opinion) and good in warlords. He can have the best economy/tech pace in vanilla just build alot of cottages and defend them build early lighthouses/courthouses. In Warlords he is equally as strong but not as obvious. He can get you the largest cities the fastest because of charisma (+1, then +1 from monument) and expansion (+2 health plus fast graneries) and build workers quickly. You should also be agressive with him in warlords early to take advantage of the faster unit promotions. Forget starting religions with him, just go steal holy cities from other civs. In warlords other easy leaders are Ramses II, Caesar(s) but the best is Mehmed who has ALOT of fast early building.

 

[InFlux5]

I think there are a few main areas where a beginner usually falls behind:

1. Build more cottages. You need to get your economy going as quickly as possible. You can also do this by building farms and a Library, then hiring scientists. But the most straightforward way - and the preferred way for a Financial civ - is cottaging. (Also, if you go with food/specialists, you either have to win through war early, or transition to cottages anyway.)

2. War more. The higher you go in difficulty, the more important it becomes to expand at the expense of your neighbors. This is because you simply can't compete with the computer in a straight up empire-building contest, as the computer has all sorts of advantages.

But war is the area where you have an advantage. This is due both to the computer's poor strategic decisions, and to your ability to squeeze more production out of your land than the computer. You do this by using Slavery and chopping forests.

3. Whip/chop more. Slavery and chopping (which both happen to come from the same tech) are possibly the human player's best advantage over the computer. You can use these to your advantage much better than the AI ever could. Your early strategy should almost always involve a combination of both of these.

For example, say you start with Mining. Begin researching Bronze Working, and build a Warrior in your capitol. When it finishes, build another one if your city is still size 1. But whenever it hits size 2 start building a Worker. Then, when Bronze Working finishes, switch to Slavery and whip the Worker. Now you've got a Worker very early on with the ability to chop forests.

If you aren't surrounded by aggressive neighbors, you can use the Worker to chop a Settler, and now you've got two cities very quickly. What you use them for is pumping out military (chopping helps here again) and building your economy.

You may build another Settler and found a 3rd city, but taking one from a neighbor will almost always be preferrable. And if you do found the 3rd one yourself, after that you will almost certainly want to start taking them from your rivals.

It's unfortunate that war is essential if you're a builder like me. But you simply have to accept its importance, and get good at using it early on to secure an advantage. If you play the early game right, you will actually have an easier time playing a peaceful game from then on, because you'll be so powerful that you won't have to worry about people picking on you.

 

[jeffthewookiee]

In Warlords he is Charismatic/Expansive, so no easy good economy from the start. He isn't "bad", but being an American Leader (late UU and UB) you wont get very much help from him early on either.

In Vanilla he is the economic monster, so if you are playing that he should be a good pick for peaceful victories.

Late UU and UB? What's that? You did notice the "Beginner" title of this post, right?

 

[Preacherman]

Unique Unit & Unique Building. Each civ has one of each (UB only in Warlords).

 

[madscientist]

One problem with Washington is his unique unit Navy Seals comes very late. The unique building (the Mall) comes even later.

 

[bluedevil99]

I want to pretty much echo what InFlux5 said. Early war makes prince SO much easier. On prince I usually try to have at least one AI capital captured by 1AD--even if you plan on a peaceful game, capitals are such attractive city sites that getting a second one early gives you a HUGE advantage. If you're having trouble with early war, try playing Hatty or Cyrus as their UUs replace chariots and can easily shred the AI's archers. Hannibal is a great leader for early economy, and if you're having a lot of trouble the Incas are just flat out overpowered

Chopping is essential. It got downgraded in the 1.61 patch, but unless I have a great production site (hills or a hammer resource like copper/marble/stone), I will still usually use a couple of early chops for a settler and second worker. Your primary goals in the early game should be (i) beat the AI to attractive city sites, (ii) get copper or horses hooked up (can be related to (i) if neither is in your capital's fat cross) and start planning your attack, and (iii) all your cities should be working improved tiles. Getting that second city (and third, if you're not already at war) out FAST is so essential on Prince--it is rarely if ever correct to let your capital grow past 4 before building that second settler, and often you should do it before then.

Whipping (slavery) will take you a little longer to master. There are some great guides on these boards, look around and don't be afraid to ask questions.

One last thing, make sure to read through Sisutil's ALC games. There's a thread called "ALC bullpen" that links to all of them. Several have very good outlines of early game stategies with detailed and clear explanation of what's being done. Reading them has helped me absolutely shred Prince, though Monarch is quite a step up.

 

[AnitaGaribaldi]

You should have a goal. You need to have a clear victory condition. Early war helps a lot, but it's possible to beat deity building only a couple of warriors and archers (with right settings and good diplomacy).

 

[OTAKUjbski]

2. War more. The higher you go in difficulty, the more important it becomes to expand at the expense of your neighbors. This is because you simply can't compete with the computer in a straight up empire-building contest, as the computer has all sorts of advantages.

But war is the area where you have an advantage. This is due both to the computer's poor strategic decisions, and to your ability to squeeze more production out of your land than the computer. You do this by using Slavery and chopping forests.

I would like to echo this and add a little.

The computer's bonus allows them to expand a certain amount more and faster than you. Furthermore, the AI's cities are a certain amount more productive than yours.

So, let's say the AI has a 10% bonus across the board on you at Prince difficulty. Let's say now you have 10 cities of population 10 each (100 population total). The AI will likely have 11 cities of population 11 each (121 population total).

Without even considering their science discounts, the AI is already 20% ahead on you. (Yes, this is "fuzzy math" and could be done better, but I'm not in front of the XML files right now ... you get the point.)

The point: you need considerably more cities than the AI just to keep up -- much more if you intend to close the gap. In most cases, you'll run out of expansion room and be forced into taking cities by force.

This is also why perpetuating war between the AI is important.

-- my 2

 

[uncarved block]

I think it would be helpful, jeffthewookie, if we had an idea how you were winning on Noble-- what your early game strats were, and how you handled diplomacy. Am pondering a jump to Prince myself, as I'm beginning to be able to stay more than 10% ahead of the AI in most (not all) games where the early BCs aren't totally botched Did you really on Cottages to get ahead? Chop early Settlers to get to four cities? Noble is rather forgiving (or so I've heard), which means there's a lot of different ways you could be playing.

In my case, I've got the strats mentioned above down pretty well (early Axe rush, get CoL and Currency ASAP, etc), but it's city management- or micromanagement- that's the hurdle. Hence the hesitation: I could play on Prince, maybe even win, but would it be worth the extra effort? Still undecided.

 

[jafink]

It is ALWAYS worth the extra effort if it is the first time you try playing on a harder difficulty. If you have tried a couple times, and don't enjoy the challenge for some reason, than by all means stay on a comfortable level. But to me so much of the experience is seeing how well i can do on the level that is just a little too hard for me to win most of the time, and then once i can win on it moving up.

About your strategy, I have been struggling myself with monarch, and found that chopping is a HUGE help especially early game when hapiness and health force your population to stay low anyways. My very basic strategy for chopping is to chop something big, like a building or a settler, and then build a few small things (military or workers). By doing this i can manage to have a strong infrastructure, and also a large military. I am still struggling to win though, I think my next step will have to be to specialize cities since i do abosolutely none of that.

@BlueDevil thanks for the suggestion to read the ALCs they are very helpful for me.

 

[TRJS]

Jefftheewookie, I was at a similar level recently and found reading the ALC threads and other similar ones extremely helpful, not to mention highly enjoyable.

 

[AThousandYoung]

""I got a belt on that's holding up my pants, and the pants have belt loops that hold up the belt. What's going on here? Who is the real hero?" - Mitch Hedberg"

That quote had me thinking for a few minutes...

 

[chrmarker]

For example, say you start with Mining. Begin researching Bronze Working, and build a Warrior in your capitol. When it finishes, build another one if your city is still size 1. But whenever it hits size 2 start building a Worker. Then, when Bronze Working finishes, switch to Slavery and whip the Worker. Now you've got a Worker very early on with the ability to chop forests.

Thats a very interesting strategy. I always build worker first, then 2 settlers.

I will have to try slave rushing the worker after the warriors and size 2 city finish. That would also give better security from barbs.

 

[futurehermit]

Great feedback so far.

Get to know bronzeworking:

1) Chop rushing: Chop those trees to get things producing quickly

2) Pop rushing: Work food tiles and then sacrifice population for more production

3) Axe rushing: Secure a source of copper (if available), chop/pop rush some axes, and then go beat on a close neighbour (if available)

Do NOT overexpand. DO beeline code of laws at some point to get courthouses built in your empire to control maintenance costs. DO lay down an abundance of cottages in cities that have 1) grasslands/floodplains and 2) preferably a river running through it.

Most of your cities should get cottaged up, but a few (good food with lots of hills/production specials) should be made into production monsters for units and wonders (a few).

Once you get the hang of bronze-working you should be ready to move to monarch, where you have to learn more if you want to win

 

[cabert]

Thats a very interesting strategy. I always build worker first, then 2 settlers.

I will have to try slave rushing the worker after the warriors and size 2 city finish. That would also give better security from barbs.

calculations were made for this "issue".
the only spiritual civ starting with mining is india.
If you play Gandhi, you shouldn't start worker first, you should go for BW first.
Why spiritual?
because if you lose 1 turn to anarchy, you don't have the worker faster than a straight build
why strating with mining? because if you don't, you will be size 2 a lot too early .

I still do it with other leaders, because I value the warrior for fogbusting/exploration just as much as I value the worker (maybe a bit less, OK, but more than 0)

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Do NOT overexpand. DO beeline code of laws at some point to get courthouses built in your empire to control maintenance costs. DO lay down an abundance of cottages in cities that have 1) grasslands/floodplains and 2) preferably a river running through it.

Something I learned just before my Prince games started getting easy is the direct correlation of Pottery, Writing and Currency/CoL to expansion.

Your first 3 cities can usually sustain themselves just off of the tiles' basic bonuses (riverside, gold, coastal, etc.).

But about the time you get a 4th city, you better have Pottery, Writing or a huge bankroll from goodie huts. If your slider starts falling before you can make a "man-made" economy (specialists or cottages), it's going to take you forever to tech into Pottery or Writing and jump start the economy.

Basically, try to have Pottery and/or Writing before the slider drops at all.

This is harder and easier (at the same time, lol) than you think. If you're chopping and whipping your early Settlers, you're going to need to focus your teching that much more to keep up.

Depending upon the terrain, you really only need 4 techs early on:

• one for . Agriculture, Fishing or AH
• one for . Mining or AH
• one for /. Pottery or Writing (Mining and Masonry to a lesser degree)
• one for (war). The Wheel or BW

By focusing my teching to the bare essentials and beelining to Alphabet, I can usually do what most people consider REX-ing. Those turns I "lose" to beelining and dropping my slider ridiculously low are usually recuperated through technology trades.