benefits of armies?
- Thread starter theGhost
- Start date
No. There are two main benefits to armies, as far as I can tell.
- Their hitpoints are massed. So imagine you had an army of vet cavs (12 hp) attacking a rifleman in a city on a hill. You might lose 10 of those 12 hp, equivalent to at least 2 dead cavs if you'd attacked separately (and maybe more, since the rifleman would've had a chance to promote), but the army would still be alive, and as good as new after healing.
- Armies can blitz (i.e. attack more than once per turn). (I think this is true for all armies, not just multiple-move armies - someone correct me if I'm wrong.) So if you're going up after weak defenders, you can still take more than one of them out on any given turn.
There's also an indirect bonus in that the AI really doesn't like to attack armies, especially defensive armies. If you need units to protect that stack of 50 artillery you're using, a defensive army is the way to go.
If you have an army of like units (i.e. 3 swordsmen, 3 cavs, or 3 infantry), the attack, defense and moves will be the same as for an individual one of those units. If you mix fast and slow units (i.e. swordsmen and a cav), the army will move as fast as the slowest unit.
If you mix units of different attack and defense values, I believe the initial attack/defense will be by the strongest unit, but if you lose (in that same attack) all of the hitpoints corresponding to that strongest unit, the next strongest unit's attack/defense strength will take over. On the next turn, though (or possibly even the next attack in a blitz - I'm not certain), your strongest unit will be fighting again, even if the army hasn't had time to heal.
Clear as mud, right?
Renata
- Their hitpoints are massed. So imagine you had an army of vet cavs (12 hp) attacking a rifleman in a city on a hill. You might lose 10 of those 12 hp, equivalent to at least 2 dead cavs if you'd attacked separately (and maybe more, since the rifleman would've had a chance to promote), but the army would still be alive, and as good as new after healing.
- Armies can blitz (i.e. attack more than once per turn). (I think this is true for all armies, not just multiple-move armies - someone correct me if I'm wrong.) So if you're going up after weak defenders, you can still take more than one of them out on any given turn.
There's also an indirect bonus in that the AI really doesn't like to attack armies, especially defensive armies. If you need units to protect that stack of 50 artillery you're using, a defensive army is the way to go.
If you have an army of like units (i.e. 3 swordsmen, 3 cavs, or 3 infantry), the attack, defense and moves will be the same as for an individual one of those units. If you mix fast and slow units (i.e. swordsmen and a cav), the army will move as fast as the slowest unit.
If you mix units of different attack and defense values, I believe the initial attack/defense will be by the strongest unit, but if you lose (in that same attack) all of the hitpoints corresponding to that strongest unit, the next strongest unit's attack/defense strength will take over. On the next turn, though (or possibly even the next attack in a blitz - I'm not certain), your strongest unit will be fighting again, even if the army hasn't had time to heal.
Clear as mud, right?
Renata
Mercade
the Counsellor
Units within armies have the same chance to promotion as units not in armies, so if you put a regular hoplite into an army, he can be promoted to veteran and then elite like normal. The army itself doesn't get promoted as a whole, because the "army unit" is merely a container into which the individual units are loaded.
Chaps
Chieftain
There was a great thread on this topic a little while back:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49261
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49261
Tireur isole
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 53
I wouldn't bother with armies. with enough people attacking they get taken down pretty fast. Attacking, well they arnt all that good, they take awhile to swing into action they useally loos alot of health before they do some damage.
^Qudos
Anti.Flag Superstar
i use armies as defense for my artillery... or sometimes when a stubborn infantry doesnt want to give up 
wilbill
That Old Time Religion
Sounds like you've had some unlucky experiences, Tireur isole. So have I, but I also had an army of Immortals go through most of two AI civs while losing only a couple of hit points. The Random Number Generator can be your best friend or your worst enemy.
I disagree. My armies always seem to be successful. You can almost always count on an army winning any given battle (assuming the matchup is reasonable, for example you aren't putting a warrior army against an infantry). In a risky militaristic journey, an army is always a blessing. I prefer using GLs to rush Great Wonders, though. But if I get one, and there won't be an available wonder for a while, I build an army.
And a tip with armies: Only put two units in them at first. Twice the normal amount of hitpoints is plenty to win just about every battle. When the two units become outdated, mix a state-of-the-art unit with them. That way, the attack and defense will match the best unit (the new one), and it'll still have a lot of hitpoints. But be sure not to put a new unit with less movement (for example, don't put an infantry with a horseman army), because that'll lower the movement to the unit with the least amount of movement points (the new one).
Double Barrel
Deity
I was asking this in the other army thread...but what is the best army that you can assemble in the modern age?
Perhaps 3 modern armor + 1 MI?
Or 4 modern armor?
And what is the best way to wear down an enemy's city defense prior to attacking with an army? artillery maybe?
Perhaps 3 modern armor + 1 MI?
Or 4 modern armor?
And what is the best way to wear down an enemy's city defense prior to attacking with an army? artillery maybe?
MadScot
Brandy's back!
If you are feeling 'nice' - incredible amounts of artillery: 50-100 at a time is good.
If your blitzkrieg is outpacing your slow-moving artillery: bombers, or BBs if attacking down a coast.
If world opinion means nothing to you: nuke the city
. A few times. That should pretty much deal with the defence.
hbdragon88
haunted by blackness
In Lucky Dragon's ArtilleryMod armies are made significantly more powerful. They have a 2hp-bonus (every unit gets 2hp extra) and are able to load 4 units in there before the Pentagon and 5 units after.
With that and a large empire (4 cities=1 army; I had about 10) every civilization soon fell to the might of modern armor armies.
If you want to wear down an enemy, park a modern armor next to a city (must have movement left) and use a nuke. Then just go in. Most defenders will be destroyed or in the red and it will be a piece of cake to get it. I did this to take out the Babs once.
With that and a large empire (4 cities=1 army; I had about 10) every civilization soon fell to the might of modern armor armies.
If you want to wear down an enemy, park a modern armor next to a city (must have movement left) and use a nuke. Then just go in. Most defenders will be destroyed or in the red and it will be a piece of cake to get it. I did this to take out the Babs once.
Double Barrel, an army of 3 MA + 1 MI would have a movement of only 2. Once you have MA, make the offensive army pure (unless you have a cavalry army you can add to).
Double Barrel
Deity
Thanks Jaybe, that is definitely how I will build my newer armies. It makes sense with the movement of 3...didn't even realize that point.
and MadScot, 50-100 arty's??? Holy moly, thats nuts!! But awesome, and I will start mass producing them tonight in order to beef up the 3 or 4 that I've currently got.
and MadScot, 50-100 arty's??? Holy moly, thats nuts!! But awesome, and I will start mass producing them tonight in order to beef up the 3 or 4 that I've currently got.
Once I got to the point of always winning due to massive artillery superiority (since the AI hardly ever uses artillery offensively), I limited my stacks of ground artillery to 6 in a tile. Sometimes I will have as many as 2 stacks applied against a metro, but that's it. I don't limit my basing of bombers.
When a metro has MI defending, I use a combination of cruise missiles and armies. Perhaps 2-3 armies, so I can rotate their attacks and withrawals for repair.
When a metro has MI defending, I use a combination of cruise missiles and armies. Perhaps 2-3 armies, so I can rotate their attacks and withrawals for repair.
Renata: I originally thought that armies could repeatedly attack, even ones one move, but in my current game, my Immortal army could only attack once per turn (and no, it wasn't because they moved onto a mountain).
I've never had an army of 3 infantry attacked. The most the AI has done is make a couple of arty shots to drop the hp one or two.
@Double Barrel: 3-4 arties is only good for taking potshots at ships and resources near your border. Build them in multiples of ten, at least.
I've never had an army of 3 infantry attacked. The most the AI has done is make a couple of arty shots to drop the hp one or two.
@Double Barrel: 3-4 arties is only good for taking potshots at ships and resources near your border. Build them in multiples of ten, at least.
MadScot
Brandy's back!
That's the spirit. Artillery is the king of the modern battlefield
If you're planning to attack large AI cities, you really do need that sort of strength. Assuming a population 16 or city, and infantry or mech inf defenders, you'll be lucky to hit more than one time in three. And you're hits will be distributed between the city improvements, units and the citizens themselves. IIRC the ratio of targeting has meandered during some of the patches, but assume it's 1:1:1. Then each arty has a maybe 50% chance of one 'hit', and two times in three it won't hit a defender. There might be 4 or 5 defenders; to knock off the 12 or more hitpoints you'll need to get the defenders redlined would take 12*3*2=72 artillery. Hopefully you'll hit the citizens too, and get the population down below 7; improvements are a waste of ammunition, since they'll mostly evaporate when you capture the city anyway. You need a lot of hits in one turn, because there might be a barracks, or even worse the AI might have Sun-Tzu's.
Obviously with more armies you can get by on fewwer artillery, since it's less risky to attack non-redlined AIs. I often have a lack of leaders, and too many defensive wins by the AI simply gives them lots of promotions, and costs me units. I'd rather spend the shields on artillery, which is basically infinitely reusable. I, too, have never lost an artillery unit
