That's exactly my point. Oil and uranium are revealed by different techs than enable them. If you reveal them and it turns out that your vassal has them and you don't, that's when gifting them the tech becomes an option. Usually a civ has to be in pretty bad shape before they'll capitulate and won't be able to tech as well as you. As I mentioned already, it's a risk, but sometimes it's worth it.
Benefits of Vassal State
- Thread starter bamf226
- Start date
That's exactly my point. Oil and uranium are revealed by different techs than enable them. If you reveal them and it turns out that your vassal has them and you don't, that's when gifting them the tech becomes an option. Usually a civ has to be in pretty bad shape before they'll capitulate and won't be able to tech as well as you. As I mentioned already, it's a risk, but sometimes it's worth it.
They're not obligated to give you their money or techs. only resources.
yes however vassals are almost always very far behind you tech wise, and you can trade them useless techs for gold.
You can do that to anyone.
Whoa, just to be clear: vassals count as towards a CONQUEST victory too? I didn't know that! I thought they only added those bonuses towards a domination victory!
Well, now I need to try out my first "real" conquest game!
I love vassalage. Makes a long drawn out war so much easier to finish.
Well, now I need to try out my first "real" conquest game!
I love vassalage. Makes a long drawn out war so much easier to finish.
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
In my current game, it's boiling down to three "master/vassal" super-states... My Germans have vassalized the Mongols (who are far behind me tech-wise)... never went to war with the Mongols, they just always liked me, and eventually asked to be my vassal... I'm vastly larger then them, so no biggie.
I'm currently at-war with the Americans and their vassals the English... I've just about whiped the English off the map, and the Americans are small-time... they will give-in if I ask them to cave, which I may do if they bore me (kinda wanted to finish-off the English first though).
The Ethiopians are masters of the Zulu, but they're both fairly minor in my point of view, and I could probably crush them if they really ticked me off. Currently at peace with both.
The main problem are the Babylonians and their vassals the Mali... go figure, the Mali are actually in the LEAD tech-wise (slightly higher even then me), but their empire is fairly small, and shares a common border with me now (especially since I destroyed the Persians and vassalized the Mongols). The Babylonians are roughly equal with my tech and fairly large... obviously the Bablyon/Mali coalition is my soul remaining major competition. I'd like to go to war with them soon and crush them along with my ally the Mongols.
Here's my delima... the Mongols asked to join me (never went to war) and they are on good terms with me. But they're pretty archaic tech-wise. Should I gift them techs to catch them up or near to me so they can be an asset in the upcoming Babylon/Mali war, or should I leave them in the dark and wish them the best when I go to war? The Mongols share a common border with both me and the Mali who I plan to attack soon (so they kind of guard my flank).
Should I tech-up the Mongols or leave them in the dark? I'd like them to be worth something militarily, I just don't want them to start giving away any techs I give them to other nations (or somehow decide to no-longer be my vassal and then they are much tougher if I have to fight them in the future).
I'm currently at-war with the Americans and their vassals the English... I've just about whiped the English off the map, and the Americans are small-time... they will give-in if I ask them to cave, which I may do if they bore me (kinda wanted to finish-off the English first though).
The Ethiopians are masters of the Zulu, but they're both fairly minor in my point of view, and I could probably crush them if they really ticked me off. Currently at peace with both.
The main problem are the Babylonians and their vassals the Mali... go figure, the Mali are actually in the LEAD tech-wise (slightly higher even then me), but their empire is fairly small, and shares a common border with me now (especially since I destroyed the Persians and vassalized the Mongols). The Babylonians are roughly equal with my tech and fairly large... obviously the Bablyon/Mali coalition is my soul remaining major competition. I'd like to go to war with them soon and crush them along with my ally the Mongols.
Here's my delima... the Mongols asked to join me (never went to war) and they are on good terms with me. But they're pretty archaic tech-wise. Should I gift them techs to catch them up or near to me so they can be an asset in the upcoming Babylon/Mali war, or should I leave them in the dark and wish them the best when I go to war? The Mongols share a common border with both me and the Mali who I plan to attack soon (so they kind of guard my flank).
Should I tech-up the Mongols or leave them in the dark? I'd like them to be worth something militarily, I just don't want them to start giving away any techs I give them to other nations (or somehow decide to no-longer be my vassal and then they are much tougher if I have to fight them in the future).
UnlockPotential
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2008
- Messages
- 74
It's a tough situation, because if they do trade them away, you're losing slightly, if they manage to capture enough cities to break vassalage and somehow go to war with you when all your armies are away... tough decision...but I would say go for it, but keep a few units around the borders between you and the Mongols just in case.
Makes sense.
I tried that in a game where I had Toku and Mansa as vassals.
"Eh, Toku, here's everything you need to build samurais, knights and trebuchets. Let's kill Darius."
"Sure !"
*A great general is born in Pasagardes (Darius).*
*A great general is born in Pasagardes (Darius).*
"Ok Toku, what don't you attack... somewhere else, far far away ? On the other side of the map, so I can finish him off before you gave him 5 more GG."
*Darius has capitulated, but is still laughing.*
Meanwhile, two malian longbowmen were taking a walk in the middle of the battlefield and didn't do anything, at all.
DraconisRex
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
- Messages
- 96
I only wipe him out. Raze his cities and, if there were the option, salt the earth, too. I hate him with a passion. He's lost me more games with way-early wars (haven't even got archery) or held me back because I've had to fight the 5th useless war he can't win, or he just attacked for no reason at all despite my technological and military superiority... He's just a psychopath.
Sometimes I'll play a small, two-player, advanced-start game with a powerful early military, like the Greeks or Rome just to kill him.
Brain
Lost in thought
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Once he's a vassal though, he's a very useful one. He SPAMS units hardcore, and at higher difficulties can afford much larger stacks than the player can. If you feed him some techs (and provided he's capitulated and you can hold him, you should), he becomes an attack dog with a LOT of bite.
I don't hate him nearly as much as most players do. If you keep a powerful enough army around, he'll generally take his stacks elsewhere. As long as you keep an eye on him to keep him from going runaway (which is far less likely than it is with shaka), you'll be ok.
Actually, generally speaking most warmonger/zealots make better vassals than other civs. Warmongers are unlikely to push for space, won't try any culture garbage, and will actually attack along with you when you do go to war.
Well, that's not "overall better", that's "better in war". Yes, warmongers are better vassals to have in a war, provided you feed them the right techs. But if you're going spacerace, telling Mansa Musa what to research and trading with him while keeping him down is more helpful than having Monty pumping riflemen.
Peter Harris
Warlord
Umh, if Mansa is your vassal and you are trading techs with him it seems quite likely that Monty WILL be pumping out riflemen instead of pumping out jaguars.
Unfortunately Mansa, not Monty, is your vassal. 
Mansa doesn't trade with Monty when Monty doesn't have anything to trade and can't bully him. Anyway, if I'm going space-race, Monty is either dead or so technically backwards that he'll send knights to kill my modern armors or something alike. If I'm going warmonger, he's dead, period.
Monty is a lot of things, but not so much of a threat.
Shaka, OTOH...
Monty is a lot of things, but not so much of a threat.
Shaka, OTOH...
NeverSurrender
Warlord
I don't know why, but I have never had a vassal state break free of me, even when they meet all the criteria (50% population of master etc).
Can anyone shed any light on this? I see AI vassals break from their AI masters quite often.
Hope it's not a bug.
Can anyone shed any light on this? I see AI vassals break from their AI masters quite often.
Hope it's not a bug.
Are your vassals capitulating to you? Or joining peacefully?
If your Vassals capitulate, they very rarely will ever manage to break free of you.
If your vassals join peacefully, it's almost impossible to make them stay the rest of the game. They may break away and look to come back again later on, but having them stay straight through is quite rare. (An exception being if you "liberate" an oversea's city (ies) so they become a new civ and a vassal to you. The +10 diplo modifier you get for liberating them means they are unlikely to ever break away, even though they haven't capitulated).
I don't have a ton of experience with the voluntary vassals, but the capitulated vassals will fight for their independence if you starve them enough. I've learned to only take the resources I need so I can fight who I want rather than keep shrinking my vassal's empires just so I can have 11 corns. Unless you're running corporations you don't need more than one of any resource and I don't think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that you can sell resources your vassal gives you.
NeverSurrender
Warlord
Usually capitulated vassals, but on occasion both. Basically, in a good few months of solid bts play and many many vassals along the way, I have not ever lost ONE! I am quite sure that on some occasions they have met the criteria, but they never make the break.
One factor COULD be that I usually liberate most (if not all, if I don't need them) their cities back to them, and while this often takes them from furious, it doesn't always make them exactly love me - this also of course will often give them (or set them well on the way to) the pop or land mass criteria to break.
I dunno, not complaining like, I just wouldn't mind one break so I know that all is working properly.
Maybe the AI just love me (or know what's good for them) and they realize I'm a merciful and wise master
One factor COULD be that I usually liberate most (if not all, if I don't need them) their cities back to them, and while this often takes them from furious, it doesn't always make them exactly love me - this also of course will often give them (or set them well on the way to) the pop or land mass criteria to break.
I dunno, not complaining like, I just wouldn't mind one break so I know that all is working properly.
Maybe the AI just love me (or know what's good for them) and they realize I'm a merciful and wise master
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