Best army of WWII

[Darth_Pugwash]

I favor Germany here. Early war Blitzkrieg and later fighting against a bigger enemy on two fronts. But i´m not sure since we haven´t been there. I dont know if the Russians or the Germans could aim better etc. Each country had some aces. Especialy germans tank aces had an excellent fighting skill.

The Germans were fighting a defensive war from 1943 onwards, and the defending side naturally tends to inflict higher casulties than their opponents. This and the early successes of blitzkrieg tactics is partly where the myth of the German super-soldiers comes from. I do think the Germans had an edge in terms of troop quality on the eastern front though, but this edge got more and more blunt by the day.

 

[rilnator]

As much as I hate to do this, my top 2 choices are the New Zealanders and the SS.
The Kiwis fought with distinction in Crete, Italy and North Africa. And to a lesser extent the Pacific.

 

[Zardnaar]

Originally posted by rilnator
As much as I hate to do this, my top 2 choices are the New Zealanders and the SS.
The Kiwis fought with distinction in Crete, Italy and North Africa. And to a lesser extent the Pacific.

Coming from an aussie I'm shocked Didn't ANZAC troops in general fight well though? Add Greece to your list though.

 

[nonconformist]

Actually, the "Elite" SS troops weren't so elite. A lot of people cosider the SS as the best,but thi is a myth. The S.S were normally no better than standard Wehrmacht troops. The SS bas based mostly on ideology, rather than combat skill. Maybe at the start of the war, the SS had the upper hand of superior training, but lacked the right German equipment, as the Wehrmacht didn't really like the Waffen SS, and gave the equpment to their own units insted. At the end of the war, anyone was being enrolled into the SS, even 16 year olds. Some of the time, SS were so fanatical that they refused to surrender, and fought to th death, but this is by no means a standard.

By the way, noone has yet mentioned the Bren (BRno ENfield)light machine gun. This is often cited as one of the best multipurpose machineguns, being designed to be fired from the hip, on a tripod, as a rifle, or on a tripod.It was slower firing than the MG4, but it made up what it lacked by a formidable accuracy. This was not always a good thing, as it lacked the tremendous suppresive power of German MGs, but it was one of the best.

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

Are you sure about the Waffen SS supply situation noncon? The Whermacht only had tactical control of Waffen SS units, apart from that the SS was a seperate organization. I dont *think* that they depended on the Whermacht for supplies. Anyways, if the Whermacht did refuse to supply the SS with anything less than the best equipment they would incur the displeasure of Hitler...

Relations between the Whermacht and the SS were not good during the early years of war. Not only did the Waffen SS perform below the standards set by the Heer during 1940, but they also did not co-operate well with Heer units during combat. Becuase of this the Heer would often give the SS easy jobs (they would also give the Waffen SS particularly difficult tasks in order to make themselves look good) and did most of the real fighting themselves. Early in the war the SS were average at best.

They improved alot during the war though; their performances on the eastern front in 43-44 were often excelent (due partly to their equipment). I would call them an elite force in this period. However as Germany's manpower dwindled so did the quality of their troops, and by 1945 the SS (like most of the German army) was a shell of its former self. The SS (and the Heer) began to let anyone in, even "untermenchen" to keep their units looking like they were anywhere near full strength. This led to a general detirioration of the entire German army.

However the majority of the SS was made up of average fighters; there were around 40 Waffen SS divisions at their peak IIRC, and less than 10 could be considered an elite force at any one time.

There were some top notch units in the Waffen SS, but there were also alot of average ones. This isnt a black and white thing; there is a grey area, which is where the Waffen SS as a whole lies.

And they had cool camo uniforms!

 

[nonconformist]

Most SS were forced to use captured and requisitioned Czech etc. machineguns and so on for the early years. Actually, a lot of SS were actually sub-average soldiers. Often, the fighting units that did not perform very well, and surrendered quite quickly were SS HitlerJugend units. By Berlin, the SS were walking around the streets, entering buildings, holding people, usually teenagers, sometimes pensioners or those previously though unfit to fight, at gunpoint, and ordering them to fight. Often with no proper armament. Ten year olds, IIRC were sent to the front line. One found himself without a rifle. "What do I do?" he asked a soldier. "Cheer." came the reply. And then there are all the defenders armed with nothing but one-shot Armour piercing High Explosive (pretty much useless on all but fighting vehicles) launchers and going ut to fight on the streets.
And, it has to be remembered, a lot of the S.S units were not even German. They were made up of volunteers taken from occupied (and sometimes unoccupied) countries.

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

Captured Czech machine guns eh? I dont believe you

Edit: Have done a bit of googling and you seem to be right about the substandard equipment supplied by the Whermacht, particularly at the start of the war.

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

You seem to have vaguely summed up my points in your post, except you are apparently ignoring the crack units like Das Reich and Viking divisions for example.

 

[nonconformist]

Wiking division was made up of Norwegians.

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

So?

I'm not trying to say that they were all German...

 

[tossi]

These are the divisions which I consider elite:

1st SS Panzer (Leibstandarte)
2nd SS Panzer (Das Reich)
3rd SS Panzer (Totenkopf)
5th SS Panzer (Viking)
9th SS Panzer (Hohenstaufen)
10th SS Panzer (Frundsberg)
12th SS Panzer (Hitler Jugend)

 

[nonconformist]

Totenkopf was in general a non-combat unit, it supplied the S.S guards for the concentration camps.

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

That seems about right tossi, dunno about Totenkopf though.

 

[tossi]

Originally posted by nonconformist
Totenkopf was in general a non-combat unit, it supplied the S.S guards for the concentration camps.

After the downfall of the SA 1934, the SS took control over the KZs. Himmler created special Totenkopf guard units to watch over the camps. After the outbreak of the war the Totenkopf standarten replaced guard duty for front line duty.

Hitler created the 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf just after the 1939 invasion of Poland. The Totenkopf became a brutal, if courageous, division, fighting recklessly and consistently suffering heavy casualties. Being one of the first Waffen-SS divisions, the troops of Totenkopf perhaps felt they had something to prove to the regular German Army who looked down on the unit as a bunch of unsavory, if blond-haired & blue-eyed, prison guards.

 

[joycem10]

I think a dstinction needs to be made between the different branches of the Waffen SS.

There was the Verfügungstruppe, SS-VT, who served as elite troops and fought alongside the regular Wehrmacht. The Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler which was Hitler's personal gaurd. Finally, there was the SS Freiwilligenverbände which was volunteers from associated allied countries and regions.

Most SS units considered Freiwilligenverbände probably meets the standards of Nonconformists post, with the exception of some like the Viking formation.

The Verfügungstruppe were Hitler and Himmler's toys and received the best in equipment near the end of the war.

 

[nonconformist]

Ah, okay Tossi. I will post a list of SS divisions, their composition and what happened to them later on.

 

[Case]

...or you could just direct readers to www.feldgrau.com/ssdivs.html

 

[YNCS]

A strong argument can be made that the best troops in WW2 were Canadian. They had the discipline, training and equipment of the British without the social problems (it was possible for any Canadian soldier to be commissioned, he didn't have to have the right accent).

 

[rilnator]

Originally posted by Zardnaar


Coming from an aussie I'm shocked Didn't ANZAC troops in general fight well though? Add Greece to your list though.

Anzac troops always fight well. Especially against each other.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

The Canadian Army was pound for pound probably the best.

Best fighting unit would be the Devil's Brigade.