Best army of WWII

Indeed, that figure is amzing;; the odds were over 100:1. Also, to understand the way the German Army was, you have to know about the Ost Battalions containing Hilfswilligen, or people of captured territories or armies forced into sevice. This included Russians, Czechs, Latvians, French, Indians, and even a few Koreans. Two were captured on D-Day-they had been captured in Korea by the Soviets fighting there, forced into battle against the Germans, and captured by the Germans, who forced them onto the Atlantic Wall. After being returned to Kore in the 1950s, they would have had to fight their ex-captors, either the Americans or Soviets.
 
Didn't read all 6 pages; this may have been previously mentioned.

Being more precise than previous posts (i.e., a specific army instead of just a nation):

I'm going to go with the 3rd Army (US). Love or hate Patton, he produced some tremendous results in the summer of '44. The Third Army redefined [inter]service support, using extensive close air support to make the great pursuit across northern France. Their great mobility and flexibility enabled them to move quickly in December of '44 to counter the threat posed by the Ardennes counteroffensive.

The Third Army accomplished all of this with inferior equipment (Sherman vs. Panzers/Tigers)-- to me, this merely shows that the fighting qualities of the Army itself were that much better.

That said, the USMC had to completely invent a new form of warfare in the Pacific. WIthout the lessons learned and skills perfected by them on the shores of Guadacanal, Luzon, Tarawa, et al, D-Day planning would have been much more difficult..
 
Originally posted by wildWolverine

The Third Army accomplished all of this with inferior equipment (Sherman vs. Panzers/Tigers)-- to me, this merely shows that the fighting qualities of the Army itself were that much better.

What about Panther vs Thunderbolt or Lightning which I think would have been more common place. Don't get me wrong though, hats of to Patton's boys.
 
Originally posted by wildWolverine
The Third Army accomplished all of this with inferior equipment (Sherman vs. Panzers/Tigers)-- to me, this merely shows that the fighting qualities of the Army itself were that much better.

Tanks were the only bits of American equipment which were significantly inferior to those fielded by the Germans, and even here the individual inferiority of the tanks was more then made up by the much bigger numbers the Americans fielded and the vastly superior logistical support American armoured units enjoyed.

The only other significantly better bit of kit in the German army was their light machine guns, and this differnce was largely made up by the American infantry units being issued with more heavy machine guns and superior mortars.
 
Originally posted by SanPellegrino
what about the finnish army? they couldn't stop the russians but considering the numbers they gave them a hell of a fight

What do you mean we couldn't stop the russians? Finland was never conquered by the russians.
 
Originally posted by Case
Tanks were the only bits of American equipment which were significantly inferior to those fielded by the Germans, and even here the individual inferiority of the tanks was more then made up by the much bigger numbers the Americans fielded and the vastly superior logistical support American armoured units enjoyed.

Aren't logistics an important part of an army?
 
Originally posted by Merlin
What do you mean we couldn't stop the russians? Finland was never conquered by the russians.

correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Finland lost huge parts of territory in the peace treaty from March 1940?
 
Originally posted by SanPellegrino
correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Finland lost huge parts of territory in the peace treaty from March 1940?

Yes we did lose territory, something like 15% of our land. We lost more in the peace than in the battles. When the peace came our troops had to march back quite a lot to the new borders.

But we kept our independence and sovereignity. Russians had planned to take Finland in two weeks. They didn't quite succeed...
 
russian takes at the begining of the war whear much stronger, heaver in armor and gun then the german tanks
look at the russian kv-1

ex.
russian tanks
kv-1

armor max 130 mm
speed 35 km/h
gun 76 mm and 7.62 mm mg

T-35

armor max 30 mm
speed 30km/h
gun 76mm, 2 x 37 mm, 2 xmg

T-70

armor 60mm
speed 45 km/h
gun 45mm




german
Panzer/wagen 35

armor 25 mm
speed 35 km
gun 37mm, 2x 7.92 mg


panzer III

armor max 30 mm
speed 40 km/h
gun 50 mm, 7.92mmmg

Panzer II

armor max 35 mm
speed 40 km/h
gun 20mm aoto fireing cannon, mg 7.92
 
Vietcong, you can´t compare heavy/ medium tanks with light tanks. Indeed the relative few KV1 were able to cope with a Panther or a Tiger, the T 35 was as good as a Pz IV H. And no real match for a German Panther.

Adler
 
Do you want to explain why you think that the Japanese Army was the finest army of WW2?
 
It's hard to quantify who the "best army" was....but

Objectives Achieved:

Obviously the allies won so you could say they had the best armies in terms of what really counts in the end. As far as smaller goals it's hard to argue for the Germans. They had some early successes but not much after that. From Dunkirk to Barbarossa they faced UK pretty much one on one and failed despite having the resources of the continent, a large industry undamaged by bombing, and a large army and air force not being destroyed in Russia.

Yet they were unable to put together a realistic cross-channel invasion plan, destroy the RAF, blockade Britain, or seize the oil reserves in the Middle East.

Soldiers:

Genetically we're all the same so it's really the circumstances that decided how individual soldiers fought. In Finland they were fighting for their very survival in a defensive war in sight of the homes they grew up in in harsh local conditions. Of course they fought well. If the US was fighting the Wehrmacht in the jungles of the Deep South the Germans would not have gotten very far.

Technology:

The Germans were probably the most innovative but this doesn't mean the best. In combat having reliable equipment is more important. Having a tank that's 50% better than your enemies but breaks down 75% more of the time isn't necessarily a good idea. Germany also began building its forces and ramping up its research earlier than the US and Russia. Had everyone started at the same time and used equal percentages of GDP I don't think Germany would have had any real advantage in 1940 and beyond.

So anway, who knows. It's a complicated question. If I had to guess I'd say UK because they stopped the Nazis one on one and forced the beginning of the end on Germany.
 
Vietcong said:
russian takes at the begining of the war whear much stronger, heaver in armor and gun then the german tanks

its not just having them ,its knowing what to do with them
 
Bobo, I think the combat achievements of an armed force is the keye to describe if it is the best or not. So Germany fought for nearly six years against nearly every European power and the US. And they had chances to win. The kill/ losses ratio is also interesting to see. The Germans were technological superior indeed, but you can´t say these inventions were not reliable. Despite some minor bugs in the beginning most inventions like the Me 262 jet or the Fritz X guided bomb were used very successful. That´s why the German Wehrmach is in my opinion the best army of ww2.

Adler
 
@Adler

So Germany fought for nearly six years against nearly every European power and the US. And they had chances to win.

Well the US was also fighting a two front war and it was fighting it over a supply line that stretched thousands of miles. That was no small achievement itself.

As far as Germany's chances....well now we're dipping into the realm of "what if". The funny thing about "what if" is that it always involves some minor change that would somehow have completely altered the war. They tend to ignore the fact that WW2 was a war of production of both men and material. The amazing thing wasn't that Germany was stopped but that they got as far as they did. Also "what ifs" always involve the Axis. You could also say what if the Allies had attacked as soon as Hitler was elected? Or what if the US began the Manhattan Project and heavy bomber research in 1933 when Germany began rearming?

The kill/ losses ratio is also interesting to see.

Usually this favors whoever is defending more. And usually whoever is defending more is the one who is losing.

The Germans were technological superior indeed, but you can´t say these inventions were not reliable. Despite some minor bugs in the beginning most inventions like the Me 262 jet or the Fritz X guided bomb were used very successful.

German advances in jets and rocketry were impressive indeed. Just imagine what they would be if they hadn't gassed or driven out some of their best scientists. However, usually when speaking of the German technological edge the focus is on tanks and not "super weapons" that entered either too late or in too few numbers to have any real effect.

Many would say that the Russian T-34 was the best all-around tank of the war. This is hard to quantify and certainly up to debate. As far as the German heavy tanks many of them were too big for effective manuever and did indeed bog down in many cases. Quite often they were used as fixed guns with limited mobility. They were also fairly complex and required high maintenance and broke down quite a bit in comparison to the Allies.

The Allies had the technology to build 60 ton tanks and indeed the Russians did. But the requirements for the US (transportability, reliability, ease of field maintenance) were not met by the German or Russian tanks. Had Germany and the US been next door neighbors then the US would have been building its forces up and researching weapons technologies far earlier than they did. Detroit had no problem building heavy machinery and easily could have built heavy tanks.

That´s why the German Wehrmach is in my opinion the best army of ww2.

Like I said it's impossible to quantify. All the armies had different missions and objectives and were operating under different circumstances. All of them tailored their forces to meet their specific goals and environment.

I'll stick with the UK mostly because they beat Germany essentially one on one not only over Britain but in the Mid East too. They also forced Hitler to attack Russia before he was ready. But that's just my opinion and can't really be proven scientifically.
 
Tough question!!! I agree with BoBo but the UK was not exactly one on one
at any time during the war. Each army was better a certain types of war-
fare than others. Germany on defense, U.S. amph. assault, Japan fanatical,
Russia offensive and UK toughness. Others preformed admirably also but it
is almost impossible to know which is best if all started on a level playing
field :confused: . I have German ancestry so I am partial to them :D ;) :D .
 
@dgfred

but the UK was not exactly one on one
at any time during the war.

Maybe not 100% but from Dunkirk to Barbarossa they certainly were the only real force opposing Germany.

I have German ancestry so I am partial to them

Now you force me to admit my Scotch/English heredity and the real reason why I rank them the best :)
 
BoBo, :thanx: for your honesty. Still a :goodjob: on the earlier post.

You made many excellent points. I am a WWII buff so I enjoy reading

instances of each army showing superior qualities at different times and

in different situations. :soldier: :rocket: :ar15:
 
Bobo, the Russian T 34 was a medium tank. It was a quite good tank which is still in service in some small states. But this is because it is very easy to repair and very reliable. Nevertheless it was equal to a German Pzkw IV and no real match for a Panther or even Tiger. The Tiger was too heavy I agree and had some other bugs but it showed in France his capabilities. Caen and Ardennes shall only be two examples. Usually German Panther and Tiger were superior to allied tanks. They were nearly not able to be stopped by enemy tanks. The US had as main tank the Sherman. This could be knocked out by a Panther from a distance of nearly 2 km. And even the T 34 was in danger by one km. To have chances to knock out a Panther they would have to get much nearer. Indeed a battle between 5 Shermans and a single Panther was a fair battle each side could win (Germans odds a bit better). So they had to rely on their air force to cope with the German tanks. But in the few battles where the planes were grounded, the US lost in fightings with even smaller German forces. I can only say Tunesia and Herrlisheim. So I think it was a mistake from the western allies to use such a tank against the best tanks of ww2. But that´s the difference in war philosophy. Germany could have been built with the resources of one Panther more Pzkw IV. And the US with the resources of 5 Sherman one Panther. So the Germans were favouring quality, the allies quantity.

Adler
 
Back
Top Bottom