Keeper_GFA
Prince
Yvain can move through impassable terrain.
Best Hero
- Thread starter DarkxL0rd
- Start date
jprc
My dog is smarter than me
I also voted "Yvain".
On top of the advantages above, he has a HUGE one: he can travel through mountains, capture units, and heal them!!
Put him on top of a mountain, nearby a passage or an enemy city, and you have got a hero who can NOT be attacked (or just by a very few units such as griffons...), can capture valuable units (placed automatically on top of this mountain with him), heal them.
Assassins, Shadows can not touch him, so no worry if his health get low as he will have time to heal...
if not Yvain, as I am a RPG "spell caster", it would be Hemah...
Just imagine the Lanum, with the OO religion, the Black Wind in which you put a priest for Tsunami, and Hemah for all teh rest!!
You have got a winning machine for playing at deity level...
Otherwise, my prefer hero is the assasin Alazkhan... it is not uncommon in my games that he grows beyond 600 points of experience... and nothing, no hero can resist him (weaken with his gost/mirror version, kill with him... whatever is the dragon/hero...)
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Chalid is by far the best.
No, pillar of fire is not just 'a few mages and their fireballs'. It's freaking a death zone. Add in crown of brilliance, and he absolutely obliterates entire armies of troops. Vitalize is cool, but extremely slow.
No, pillar of fire is not just 'a few mages and their fireballs'. It's freaking a death zone. Add in crown of brilliance, and he absolutely obliterates entire armies of troops. Vitalize is cool, but extremely slow.
i would have to disagree. by far? really? they both have affinity so that cancels each other out. after that, one does damage and the other heals. the question then is what wold you rather have? a healthy stack, or surrounding enemies with less life? i think a toss up there too. they both summon and cast buffer spells. ( i would argue poison blade is better than loyalty) and then on top of it all yvain can resurrect your nation's dead hero. i think yvain FTW. least of all, chalid doesn't beat by far.
after looking over the law mana... i have found that it's not too great. near useless buffs. also the civopedia said only ashen veil people can cast ring of flames, so can chalid cast that? he's empyrian. crown of brilliance is extra damage, how much more do you need? yvain is alot more versatile. terraforming, summons that are permant, i think people just dont play FoL. and then they go online and read chalid this and that. hmm...
have you even tried chalid + a stack of ratha's, beelining blitz? Once it gets going, you can literally bring down a stack of over 100 units in a single turn, using the ratha's blinding light to keep the opponent in place.
You've got normal druids for terraforming and summoning, chalid is one of a kind.
You've got normal druids for terraforming and summoning, chalid is one of a kind.
you can really accomplish the same thing with Yvain + a stack of Flurry and druids/mages. Flurry start with blitz and can gain the Marksmen promotion, making them extremely nasty. Druids have entangle, accomplishing the same thing as blinding light. Blinding light is also just a level 1 spell making it easy for anyone to use. Agreed that both Yvain and Chalid are definitely a close finish. Of course it all depends on which religion you choose and what race you play. I usually play the elves and FoL is definitely tailor-made for them. Not to mention that you get some nice heroes to boot.
Some really great points on favoring either Chalid or Yvain, but in the poll Chalid is killing the tree stump. 
But, here's the big question:
Has anyone ever used one to capture the other?
Having both Chalid and Yvain on the same team would really be something!
Personally, I can't ever remember capturing a hero using Command or Dominion.
But, here's the big question:
Has anyone ever used one to capture the other?
Having both Chalid and Yvain on the same team would really be something!
Personally, I can't ever remember capturing a hero using Command or Dominion.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
You can capture them, but you can't have both state religions at once so one will leave you after a turn. Capturing heroes with Domination is much harder because the Hero promotion makes them more likely to resist the spell.
I believe that one time I used Yain to capture a Chalid and had Govannon teach him a little Death magic (I forget whether I was Amurite and the captured Chalid just happened to have enough extra xp to purchase death II and III immediately, or if I captured him from the Amurites already trained) and so I used Lichdom to keep him around longer. He lost a lot of his base strength, but it was better than loosing him entirely. I find having a Lich dealing holy damage with Crown of Brilliance rather ironic.
I believe that one time I used Yain to capture a Chalid and had Govannon teach him a little Death magic (I forget whether I was Amurite and the captured Chalid just happened to have enough extra xp to purchase death II and III immediately, or if I captured him from the Amurites already trained) and so I used Lichdom to keep him around longer. He lost a lot of his base strength, but it was better than loosing him entirely. I find having a Lich dealing holy damage with Crown of Brilliance rather ironic.
heisenberg
Lost in Erebus
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2008
- Messages
- 337
Chalid's much more easily accessed to though, since Yvain requires you to go deep into the recon line to pick up. 
Though actually it hasnt been really discussed but picking up Yvain and actually hoarding nature mana to pump him up also pumps up fellow druids (assuming you were neut), so thats an added bonus for him. You could say that sun mana adds to aurealis affinity too, but that requires archmages which are deeply down a separate tech line, unlike druids which are gained from the same tech as Yvain.
Though actually it hasnt been really discussed but picking up Yvain and actually hoarding nature mana to pump him up also pumps up fellow druids (assuming you were neut), so thats an added bonus for him. You could say that sun mana adds to aurealis affinity too, but that requires archmages which are deeply down a separate tech line, unlike druids which are gained from the same tech as Yvain.
Azure-Dreamer
Chieftain
What's with the discussion? its pretty clear that chalid is the ffh equivalent of a bloody mark-12 tactical nuke!
yvain can bulk up just as much as chalid can. also druids dont disappear the next turn.
cabbagemeister
Please wait...
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2008
- Messages
- 517
Dwarven Druids have Crush though, which is almost as good as Pillar. They don't have Crown, but on the other hand there's more of them. What about Yvain with 4 Dwarven Druids? They're at the same point on the tech tree, which is really nice for ramping up your war machine quickly.
Not true, Blinding light is from the SunII promotion. If you want to use lot of Blinding Light, Empy and Radiants/Rathas are really the way to go--you don't even need Sun mana with them, and there are better uses for mages than Blinding Light. Entangle is not really comparable b/c it's limited to so few units.
heisenberg
Lost in Erebus
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2008
- Messages
- 337
Sadly dwarven druids pump up on a different source of mana than Yvain.
That said, even dwarven druids with base str are pretty awesome units with crush
As for blinding light, blinding on mages are useful... but blinding on high movement rathas are simply of a different class altogether.
That said, even dwarven druids with base str are pretty awesome units with crush
As for blinding light, blinding on mages are useful... but blinding on high movement rathas are simply of a different class altogether.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Dwarven Druids do have Crown of Brilliance if you're doing it right. 
Druids should never be built directly, as a Druid upgraded from a priest gets all the abilities of a high priest of that religion. I usually try to make most my Druids upgrades from Vicars or Cultists (for water walking more than for the spells), although I also try to make sure that they aren't all of the same religion and that most are not of my state religion (since I might as well just use High Priests for those spells).
Of course, Dwarven Druids have Earth Affinity instead of Nature, so they don't synergize with Yvain any better than with Chalid.
Chalid himself can summon Aureaeles so they don't require archmages. However, you can only have one at a time if you don't have the summoning trait, and his other spells are often a better choice.
Druids should never be built directly, as a Druid upgraded from a priest gets all the abilities of a high priest of that religion. I usually try to make most my Druids upgrades from Vicars or Cultists (for water walking more than for the spells), although I also try to make sure that they aren't all of the same religion and that most are not of my state religion (since I might as well just use High Priests for those spells).Of course, Dwarven Druids have Earth Affinity instead of Nature, so they don't synergize with Yvain any better than with Chalid.
Chalid himself can summon Aureaeles so they don't require archmages. However, you can only have one at a time if you don't have the summoning trait, and his other spells are often a better choice.
heisenberg made a good point here. FoL druids will be significantly stronger since they have +1 affinity for nature mana. They also have entangle and can also heal. They are a force to be dealt with all on their own.
Chalid + Rathas is effective, but we're talking late game here. Rathas are a base 5/3 strength and given that you even have mithril, would be a max 9. Your opponent is going to have units of this strength or greater and if you're blinding light doesn't succeed on all of them, rathas' lack of defense is going to hurt. Druids are a base 8 and with several nodes of nature mana become extremely powerful. Also, weigh in the fact that these druids also have the Command promotion which means that between Yvain and a few druids you could be ACQUIRING 3-7 extra units and healing every turn. So the druids aren't there just to cast spells, they become part of the attacking force as well. Yvain just aligns so well with elves, FoL and its druids, if played correctly, I think he outweighs the strategy of Chalid + rathas/druids/archmages.
Don't get me wrong, all in all, I don't think it really matters which of these you choose based on your gameplay.....if you make it to this point with either of these guys, your opponent really doesn't stand a chance.
Annex
Tyranny and Mutation
No Chalid doesnt have ring of flames. Instead he is the only unit in the game capable of casting pillar of fire ever since Inquisitors were removed. And belive me pillar of fire does a lot more damage, but only in one tile as opposed to all surrounding tiles, which can be a good or bad thing depending on the situation.
Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
For the Dwarves, Hemah is the best religious UU and Yvain is second because they offer something the dwarves can't otherwise get (archmage, normal druid powers.) Myconids and Dwarven Druids and the Luchuirp's golems make Rathas and Chalid redundant. Hemah wins out because he's attached to a clearly better religion.
For everyone else...
Chalid can make a really tough unit like a highly promoted hero/tier 4 unit/longbowman on a hilled city reliably beatable with no losses. No other unit - not mages, not other religious heroes, can do that. Well, except for some of the Illian units, but they can't adopt religions anyway. So Chalid's the best.
For everyone else...
Chalid can make a really tough unit like a highly promoted hero/tier 4 unit/longbowman on a hilled city reliably beatable with no losses. No other unit - not mages, not other religious heroes, can do that. Well, except for some of the Illian units, but they can't adopt religions anyway. So Chalid's the best.
Similar threads
- Poll
