Best Hero

[klutzy]

Monkeyfinger:

I'm saying 80% is the LEAST percentage I've encountered with Yvain fully leveled and maxed out. And even that was a rarity. And by rarity I mean maybe 2-3 times when encountering an entrenched city defender with several promotions. 99% of the battles fought had a 95% or higher.
And for the elves, vitalize can be the difference between a city being a 30 population or 40 population. Pretty significant.

Demus:

We're not talking about the units fighting 1 on 1. we're talking about the OVERALL worth of a these heroes...not just combat.

 

[Demus]

in all fairness: yvian takes down 1, maybe 2 defenders per turn, while healing his stack. Chalid takes down the same amount of defenders, also heals his stack, AND damages every other enemy within range, allowing the rest of the stack to actually survive and gain some exp.

And basically, you can't fight when vitalizing and vice versa, so while yvian can be accounted to doing one or the other, the affinity + heal + vitalize doesn't add raw power, just versatility (which all normal druids have, which are gained at the same tech)

 

[Keeper_GFA]

I call and raise you $20.

You can't call and raise. You have to call or raise.

 

[Mailbox]

Kael hated how a unit that (almost) every civ could get without sacrificing anything could use anti-stack spells with no drawback. He decided all those spells should either belong to units that are unique to something, or have some sort of risk or penalty (see Maelstrom, Wither)

I don't really see why that's so different from Fire Elementals (except the unit vs. spell argument but both are counterable). And what's the drawback to wither, I don't remember it doing anything but crippling the enemy's forces?

 

[Monkeyfinger]

The mana required to learn Wither shits all over your relations with good and some neutral civs.

There's a limit to how much of a stack a fire elemental can hurt, and if the toughest defender is anything worth being scared of, the fire elemental will barely hurt it.

 

[Zechnophobe]

We're not talking about the units fighting 1 on 1. we're talking about the OVERALL worth of a these heroes...not just combat.

Late game hero's, because of the fact they appear near the end of the game, have to be graded on how much they help you achieve victory, and generally combat is the fastest.

While Chalid doesn't have a button that goes 'I win in 30 turns' an army that contains Chalid, and a dozen decent units can generally do just that, or at least cinch the deal. (normal speed, standard map size).

The larger an empire you have, the less effect Yvains vitalizing has (because per turn he isn't increasing your empires yield all that much).

And a single unit with decent strength just isn't an army enabler like a stack killer is. Chalid is the flaming headed avatar of destruction!

 

[Lade]

The REAL strongest late game religous hero is Mulcarn

I mean, hes a god, how can he NOT be a religous hero?

60 str + 70% damage to all enemy adjacent units

Thats pretty good in my book

 

[Zechnophobe]

I'd prefer Chalid . He doesn't come with the massive downside of shrinking my empire by half and have everyone declare war on me. And 70% damage isn't much more than one Bright Eyes can do.

 

[Lade]

Maybe, but like someone said earlier, its depends on whether you look at the "package deal" or the "single deal"

Mulcarn alone vs. Chalid alone = Mulcarn win (most likely)

It was the same as Yvain vs. Chalid

Are you comparing the actual heros? Or Empyrean vs. Fol

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Here I think Zech and I are going to stop agreeing but I consider Empyrean to be the better overall package, except for elves.

Spammable units with blinding light and a free +6 relations bonus to select neighbors > anything FoL brings to the table, even ignoring Chalid but giving FoL credit for having Yvain.

 

[DarkxL0rd]

Late game hero's, because of the fact they

And a single unit with decent strength just isn't an army enabler like a stack killer is. Chalid is the flaming headed avatar of destruction!

why do you keep saying he has decent strength? his strength is just as strong as chalids. exactly the same. chalids only trump is a direct damage spell. which apparently is better than having 3 "slightly less awesome" traits, as the poll clearly shows.

I dont know, i guess i dont want to win by domination every single freakin game...but that's just me.

 

[betresen]

Religion heroes are approximately equal, i voted for Yvain, because this treant almost unvulnerable defender for elven nations and, maybe, strongest in 1x1 battle. Chalid is very strong, but excluding magic (with resistances promo) they're equal. Sphener is weaker than Chalid or Yvain.

 

[rocklikeafool]

The mana required to learn Wither shits all over your relations with good and some neutral civs.

Since it's a spell that basically is evil, that makes sense, man.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Duh?

I'm not denying that it makes sense, I'm just pointing out that it exists and it's a real drawback that you need to watch out for.

 

[Ekolite]

Since it's a spell that basically is evil, that makes sense, man.

tenchar

 

[Zechnophobe]

Here I think Zech and I are going to stop agreeing but I consider Empyrean to be the better overall package, except for elves.

Spammable units with blinding light and a free +6 relations bonus to select neighbors > anything FoL brings to the table, even ignoring Chalid but giving FoL credit for having Yvain.

True enough, but that's a discussion for a different thread. (FoL Rocks the house!)

why do you keep saying he has decent strength? his strength is just as strong as chalids. exactly the same. chalids only trump is a direct damage spell. which apparently is better than having 3 "slightly less awesome" traits, as the poll clearly shows.

I dont know, i guess i dont want to win by domination every single freakin game...but that's just me.

Just to make it clear, when the general populace gauges how good a hero is, they don't take into account that you may intentionally go for a harder to achieve victory. Chalid obviously is a vastly inferior hero if you are going for a Cultural Victory.

Most people win via conquest or Domination, and chalid is the greatest enabler of the most common victory types. His two direct damage spells, that can both trigger on a single turn, put him there.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Most people win via conquest or Domination

Over half my wins are tower, with the rest being a mix of domination and altar. I still think Chalid rocks, because even if I don't want to conquer EVERYONE, I still like to absorb 1, maybe 2 empires.