Best Leaders for Civ IV or Civ IV warlords.

Emperor2

Capitalist Missionary
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
916
Location
Capitalist Paradise
Quick Question- What is your opinion on the best leader in Civilization IV or Civ IV Warlords? I have always found Napoleon to be best, but I have not played every single leader yet and I recently obtained a copy of CIV IV Warlords, :) and that has extra leaders. So please post your opinion. Thank you.
 
(this should probably be in Strat/Tips).

Well, I'm going to give the classic 'there is no best leader' response. I found, in my latter days on Noble moving to Prince, and now during my latter days of Prince, that playing 'Random' is one of the best ways to improve your over all game. While it is true that certain leaders lend themselves to certain play styles (I'm gonna assume you like to warmonger if you love Nappy), being able to play a well rounded game has ALOT of benefits, as it allows you to adapt as the game progresses.

I do have a couple leaders that I find myself playing first when I move up a difficulty, like Lizzy, Ghandi, Huanya etc, mostly cause they have a really solid economic strategy associated with them.

/moo
 
Julius has got to be the easiest for moving up to higher levels with. With those Praetorians, it's pretty easy to get on an even footing in the early game.

This is Vanilla - I don't have Warlords.
 
There is no best leader. It depends what your strategy is: if you like wonders be industrious, if you use loads of cottages be financial, if you change civics a lot be spiritual, if you want to be a warmonger be aggressive, if you want to use SE be philosophical..etc.

However as svv said you can win with the romans on much higher difficulty levels than with other leaders if you rush eveyone with praetorians and get an early conquest victory.
 
I know the "correct" answer is "there is no best"...but frankly, I really love playing Brennus (Warlords).

I like to play a balanced game with an emphasis on religion, and if you're going to play a Civ that is Spiritual, then starting off with Mysticism is almost an aboslute must. Charismatic gives a real nice vanilla benefit to every city and military unit in my empire that nicely compliments any civ. But add to that the Dun, which is FANTASTIC, because I almost always try to found my city on a hill, and that extra 20% Guerilla bonus combined with City Defense and the hill defense bonus, and the wall bonus, plus fortification... makes for a damn near impossible to break through city defense. I've had one archer hold off HORDES of barbarians without losing a single guy. Add to that an early unique unit that can be upgraded forever, and what you've got is a recipe for a lot of really happy, well-protected people, generating a ton of religion and culture.

Of course, I've only had the game since xmas, so my mind may change a bit in the future, but after trying about 10 other leaders, I like Brennus best.
 
if you're going to play a Civ that is Spiritual, then starting off with Mysticism is almost an aboslute must. QUOTE]

What??? I don't understand this at all. Do you mean that if you're going to be spiritual then you should pick a leader which has mysticism, presumably in an effort to found an early religion. Or do you mean that almost every spiritual leader has mysticism has a starting tech.. which is wrong - Mansa, Hatty, Ramessess all great leaders IMO

Brennus is hated by many because of his lousy UU and UB but i can understand why you may like him - spiritual and charismatic aren't bad traits. EDIT: Oh crap the quote thing didnt work, never mind u get the point.
 
yeah, I thought that Brennus was sorta weak due to his UB and UU, but Spi/Cha is an incredibly powerful combination IMO, as I found out in the first game I played with him. I also found that the Dun wasn't quite as bad as I was expecting, since I usually send 1-2 xbows and 1-2 longbows or more xbows if I don't have Feud yet to defend the stack/new city I plan on taking. Since, as the Aelf's UU guide pointed out when talking about the Gallic Warrior, actually sieging the city is the culmination of offense movement (to basically steal his words) and the chosen path to a city is often through forested hills, or at least nekkid hills (since forests have a tendency to be chopped, funny how that is...), G1/D1-2 and G1/Str1/Shock xbow pairs are like impossible to counterattack. Point being, because Guerilla is underrated, the Dun is seen as useless, but I found it situationally useful. Biggest problem with him, IMO, is that the Gallic Warrior, which starts with G1 naturally, doesn't benefit from the Dun at all. Talk about weak.
 
if you're going to play a Civ that is Spiritual, then starting off with Mysticism is almost an aboslute must.

What??? I don't understand this at all. Do you mean that if you're going to be spiritual then you should pick a leader which has mysticism, presumably in an effort to found an early religion.

Yes, sorry I should have been more clear on this. IMHO, the best use of synergy for a spiritual civilization is to use the religious tactics and found as many religions as possible, and Mysticism is the immediate jumping board to Hinduism and Buddhism. I always get beaten to Buddhism, so I took Hinduism first, then a brisk walk towards founding Judaism, and could then relax and take a leisurely stroll towards founding Christianity and Islam. That's four religions under my control, four times as many cultural and happy points being pumped out by each city, four times as much religious income, and once I achieve Free Religion later on, I get even more happiness.

Of course
, like you said though, Rammy is a fine leader too. I thought it rather apropos that, even though I missed out on founding Hinduism and Buddhism with him, the Egyptians (starting right next to stone) were able to build the pyramids and found Judaism. I had a really nice powerful tiny little nation that probably wouldn't have been crushed had I more than five cities.


yeah, I thought that Brennus was sorta weak due to his UB and UU, but Spi/Cha is an incredibly powerful combination IMO, as I found out in the first game I played with him. I also found that the Dun wasn't quite as bad as I was expecting...

Yeah, their UU sucks compared to the others, but I rarely bother with UU's to tell the truth. I did like the Dun though because it is almost immediately available in the earliest stage of the game, and I always build a wall in every city, as well as a barracks, and I usually try to end my military/scouting turns on a hill. Duns are FANTASTIC for scouts, because you only need one promotion to be able to walk 2 spaces through hills, and hills give you the best sight range and a good defensive bonus, plus the bonus from both Guerrilla promos.

Of course, all that said, I once AGAIN ended up with too small of a civ (6 cities this time). I'm cursed by slow expansion. I realize I can't do Infinite Sprawl like in Civ III, but since most of the goodies in the midgame require 8 cities, it'd be nice to be able to settle 8 cities before the switch from BC to AD.

Soooo... I started over yet again, this time using the Carthagenians (Fin/Cha), whom I might add also have a really lame UU (gee... it's like a horse archer, only less powerful), but as I said, I rarely bother with UUs. However, I couldn't have asked for a better starting spot for the Cats (on a hill, fresh water, 2x gold, 4x silver, beef, wheat, 2x 3hamhills, a horse, and plenty of riverside property). I shoulda taken a screenshot, my first city has SICK resources. I had to stop playing for the evening before I discovered copper or iron, but if there's those two in there, I'm definitely taking a screenshot and posting the 4000BC save game for others to play.
 
dude, make some heads roll :crazyeye:
(that'll expand your empire :P)


Thats the real bonus of Spi/Cha, imo. You can queue load a bunch of dudes, then Vassalage/Theocracy/Slavery (and Police State or Nationhood if u have/need to) for like 10 turns to turn them all out, and then go back into rebuilding civics. Brennus is really the best at this, since Cha decreases the exp they need to lvl up, and spiritual allows for these massive civic swaps (Monty was sorta the old king at this, with Agg/Spi, but Cha gives more versatility, IMO). Changing ALL your civics to war civics, then switching back is the real bonus of Spiritual to me, though founding the early religion can be nice, its not a must, I don't think.

Also, in defense of the Numidian Cavalry, don't overlook its +50% vs. melee. Its only real counter other than later units is spearmen. They certainly aren't a city-taking unit, but i think they're one hell of a light skirmishy unit.
 
dude, make some heads roll :crazyeye:
(that'll expand your empire :P)
Thats the real bonus of Spi/Cha, imo. You can queue load a bunch of dudes, then Vassalage/Theocracy/Slavery (and Police State or Nationhood if u have/need to) for like 10 turns to turn them all out, and then go back into rebuilding civics.

Yeah, that's a darn good point. Thanks! It had kinda tickled the back of my mind a bit, but since my nearest "enemy" was too far to get to in any kind of reasonable timeframe, I just concentrated on building up my cities to each pumping out a ton of culture and resources, and do a peaceful takeover. I'm pretty sure each city is sending out over 20+ culture per turn, and that's not counting wonders, since I've got all those religious buildings.

But I've still got the saved game, maybe I'll just betray my two nearby friends (Stalin and Queen Vicky) and take their land.


Also, in defense of the Numidian Cavalry, don't overlook its +50% vs. melee. Its only real counter other than later units is spearmen. They certainly aren't a city-taking unit, but i think they're one hell of a light skirmishy unit.

You know, I thought NuCavs were teh suck before I made some. Lemme tell ya, if you don't have The Great Wall, these guys are GREAT at wasting barbs before they can trash improvements. I normally shoot for the Great Wall, but had no stone, and figured I'd be better served going for a Super Capital and faster expansion in the early game. Barbs were a real pain in the arse until I popped a NuCav in every city. Between Barracks and Stable, and Charisma, they really are quite nie in the early game, and I'm guessing they're upgradable to Cavalry later on.
 
Brennus is quite possibly my favourite leader as well, and he is a frighteningly good warmonger right throughout the game.
Charismatic/Spiritual are probably my two favourite traits, and they also work together so VERY well, with trips to and from police state/vassalage/slavery/theocracy to produce hordes of the highest-quality combined-arms force of pretty much anyone. Plus they both help with happiness, for extra-big or extra-whipped cities, and mysticism gives you easy monuments.

I also think the Gallic is a really excellent UU. Building them with copper means you can get them much earlier and more easily than normal swordsmen, and they can tag along on early axemen rushes and just steamroll everything in their path with ease, accumulating stratospheric experience levels on the way. And a few of these guys with guerrilla II (and the resulting fast movement and near-invincibility on hills) make a devastating commando force behind enemy lines. They're also 1XP away from Guerrilla III, which makes them excellent for dislodging enemies hiding on hills, or softening up with their withdrawal chance.
Oh yeah, did I mention that Charismatic (and potentially Spiritual) helps immensely with the happiness side of whipping-them-out-en-masse-super-early?
The dun is hardly the best UB out there (I shudder to imagine Brennus with the sacrificial altar, for example.......), but the hills bonus for archery units is very nice, and the easy guerrilla II access synergises well with the Gallic, to allow versatile, tough, fast-moving stacks for offense or field defense. And hilltop cities are almost completely safe until gunpowder, too.

I used to be a sceptic about his UU and UB too, until I tried them and witnessed the jawdropping power of the Celtic axeman+Gallic rush (it's really something to behold), and the disruptive potential (and just outright fun) of Celtic guerrilla commandoes. Combined with his traits, that's one hell of a package.

Yes, sorry I should have been more clear on this. IMHO, the best use of synergy for a spiritual civilization is to use the religious tactics and found as many religions as possible, and Mysticism is the immediate jumping board to Hinduism and Buddhism. I always get beaten to Buddhism, so I took Hinduism first, then a brisk walk towards founding Judaism, and could then relax and take a leisurely stroll towards founding Christianity and Islam. That's four religions under my control, four times as many cultural and happy points being pumped out by each city, four times as much religious income, and once I achieve Free Religion later on, I get even more happiness.

As far as Spiritual and religion, obviously you need a civ with Mysticism (which is Spiritual except Mansa, plus Huayna, as far as I know) to have a real chance at an early religion. But I'm not entirely convinced that it's necessary or even always best to get early religion with Spiritual, since I don't think they're as synergistic as their names suggest. The religion tech tree is more a peacemongering builder's tree, whereas I think Spiritual is really more of a warmonger's trait.
For me, the major synergy between Spiritual and religion is in getting full value out of the theocracy/organised religion/pacifism shuffle, and by the time you can do that you should have already been able to spread a foreign religion around your cities anyway.
The other is the ability to quickly and easily switch between other peoples' religions and make the most of the diplomacy game, which almost prefers that you DON'T found one of the early ones.
Exploiting cheap temples is nice, but I'm not convinced that the cost of spreading multiple religions in your empire is necessarily worth it, especially not early on before a couple of religions are likely to have spread naturally (or by conquest) to your territory.

Some Spiritual leaders will benefit well from early religion - e.g. Egyptian leaders (in Warlords) and Gandhi with their easy great prophets, and leaders who don't have bonuses to ancient-age warfare.

Brennus is, in my opinion, the spiritual leader least suited to it. Charismatic is kinda like having an extra religion from the start (with monuments like cheap temples), so there's less need for more happiness. X turns researching a religious tech is X turn later that you get iron working, is X turns that you're not building Gallics, is X turns of enemy defences being built up and not smashed. And early Gallics mean you can pretty much just waltz into a holy city and pick up a religion while you're there anyway.

thelibra said:
You know, I thought NuCavs were teh suck before I made some. Lemme tell ya, if you don't have The Great Wall, these guys are GREAT at wasting barbs before they can trash improvements. I normally shoot for the Great Wall, but had no stone, and figured I'd be better served going for a Super Capital and faster expansion in the early game. Barbs were a real pain in the arse until I popped a NuCav in every city. Between Barracks and Stable, and Charisma, they really are quite nie in the early game, and I'm guessing they're upgradable to Cavalry later on.
Agreed, they're a great little unit that do well against pretty much everything in the field, and can hold their own against spearmen too. I just wish they'd been given to somebody else. Hannibal really benefits from getting sailing, compass AND currency ASAP to make the most of his coastal trade focus (and they're expensive techlines in the early game), and Horseback Riding is a very pricy detour from that. I end up only getting them very late, which is a real shame.
 
Elizabeth - Strongest economy, draftable UU to back it up
Hatshepsut/HC - Very adaptable leaders with super UUs
Saladin/Gandhi depending on your version (phi/spi) - Best religious strat or heavy SE operators
Augustus - The aggressive civs are pretty good too, but none of them stack up against the raw power and longevity of praetorians.
 
One shouldn't forget Cyrus and his Immortals. In Warlords his traits (Charismatic & Imperialistic) are a very strong combination, which allows very fast great generals. You can research AH right away, build your second city next to the horses, and start spamming immortals. I have achieved couple of very fast conquest victories (standard pangaea, emperor level), but you have to be fast before culture makes city defences too strong.
 
If you play to the strengths of the leader...their uu, ub, their traits, their starting techs, etc...you'll see that all the leaders are reasonable strong. I think they all can be "the best" if played to their abilities. They are all close to each other in relative strength and ability to win the game.

So instead of seeing who is the best, I look at it as...who isnt as good? Imo the only leaders I see a drop-off are Roosevelt and Bismark. I dont think theyre bad (i have monarch culture wins with both of them thanks to industrious)...I just dont think theyre as good as everyone else (yes, even Saladin and Isabella).
 
Quick Question- What is your opinion on the best leader in Civilization IV or Civ IV Warlords? I have always found Napoleon to be best, but I have not played every single leader yet and I recently obtained a copy of CIV IV Warlords, :) and that has extra leaders. So please post your opinion. Thank you.

any leaders with spiritual trait
 
Augustus - The aggressive civs are pretty good too, but none of them stack up against the raw power and longevity of praetorians.

Augustus is probably the most well-rounded leader in Warlords, post-patch. He gets a perk in almost every era of the game. So many cheap buildings: libraries, theaters, colosseums, lighthouses, courthouses and factories. He has a great UU, and the Roman UB practically makes him one-quarter Philosophical. Topped off with the reduced civics prices, he seems flexible enough to be a great builder or a great conquerer.
 
I'm playing as Ragnar the Viking now and loving every minute of it. The combination of Financial and Aggressive is perfect for my play style. War...War...War.

Cheers.
 
As much as my Canadian blood hates me for it, I like playing the American civilization. Financial and organized works well for me, and I often take my island and just kinda sit there and improve it until not far before SEALS anyways so having a late UU is a boon to my playstyle.
 
I've switched from Cyrus, Julius, Hatshepsut, and now Catherine. I'm thinking about trying out Augustus next game, but I'm a bit tired of being a Roman. Anyway, my play style is the imperialist approach, so I usually end up winning the game with either a conquest or culture victory--it really depends on the map and the leader that I'm playing at the time. I do love the Financial and Spiritual traits, but they always transform me more into a mogul. There isn't anything wrong about being mogul, but you can't win an economic victory like you could in Alpha Centauri. Like the others said, it all depends upon your play style and such.
 
As my sig says i prefer Peter by far, my own playstyle is a GP junky, i use them to tech away like mad, and rush like hell ot Cossacks and use them against my neighbours to carve out a good empire to keep my cities healthy.

I also like Cyrus and Victoria and Alexander, although i do think that firaxis might just take out Elizabeth's trait combo. I've noticed 2/5 games will see a lizzy playing, and they usually end up in control of a welathy and advanced empire.
 
Back
Top Bottom