Best Naval Leader

[insaneweasel]

Who, in your opinion, is the best leader when on a map that favors naval supremacy.

Doesn't have to be islands. I love Willem, with his awesome UB, but there may be better options out there.

So who is best for naval games?

 

[madscientist]

There are a few that come to mind

1) Hannibal: Financial explots the sea. UB gives an extra trade route for coastal cities.. Charismatic means 2 free promotion with a drydocks.

2) Willem: Again Financial. The UB offers a lot of production although could be pricey mon a water map.

3) Ragnar: Financial. a UB that help naval units and a UB the get's a free amphibious promotion.

4) Washington/Lincoln. Charismatic means 2 free promotions for a drydocks and the UU works well with this.

 

[kossin]

Either a Charismatic leader or Ragnar. Ragnar's added mobility (especially if you circle the globe) makes him far superior in movement logistics... add on top of that Berserkers

 

[Halt]

Roosevelet is also good for this as Org/Ind are good traits to acquire Greatlighthouse and other helpful wonders. With of course the late game UU.

If I was forced to choose it would be the "little Dutch boy" and his UB,for production

 

[insaneweasel]

There are a few that come to mind

1) Hannibal: Financial explots the sea. UB gives an extra trade route for coastal cities.. Charismatic means 2 free promotion with a drydocks.

I love everything about Hannibal...except his UU
I love to warmonger, and the NC doesn't do it for me. Maybe it's the Age of Empire games with 50+ war wagons, but I just love using good UUs.

3) Ragnar: Financial. a UB that help naval units and a UB the get's a free amphibious promotion.

I managed to get a diplomation victory with him. He is awesome. Though what is the historical basis for financial?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think it's Ragnar. I mean, the dike is great, but by the time you get to steam, fast galleys (up to 5 with nav II and the circum bonus) and berserkers have pretty much taken over the world.

 

[Yared]

I remember hearing that during a multiplayer game TheMeInTeam and his pal spammed galleys + berserkers and mass-razed their opponents' coastal cities.

 

[CHEESE!]

Roosevelt.

 

[plasmacannon]

One more should be added to madscientist's list:
5) Joao of Portugal. He REXs quickly and has a UU and UB that work best on water maps.

I am not saying, he is the best, I like 1,2,3 on that list as well.

We could add other leaders that tech well, or don't have too early of a UU.
When seperated, it gives one ample time to expand and control most of one's island, thus, making rush races less sucessful, and teching ones more sucessful.
However, some, apply to any map. HC's IND and FIN traits would do well.
Cyrus, would have the strongest warships of anyone.

 

[Bibor]

Who, in your opinion, is the best leader when on a map that favors naval supremacy.

Doesn't have to be islands. I love Willem, with his awesome UB, but there may be better options out there.

So who is best for naval games?

Any leader that can get you to Astronomy, Chemistry and Combustion first will give you naval supremacy. Ragnar's bonuses are nice, but by the time you get galleons, macemen are pretty outdated. Hannibal's bonus is nice, but then again, you need just 2 super-powerful production cities (that might have only 3 water tiles) to get naval supremacy. Same thing with Oranje, being able to squeeze out 6 base hammers per coastal city doesn't help you much - you'll be cranking out ships in your naval production cities, not in every city.

Also, naval supremacy presumes Flight, Industrialism for Marines and Pentagon, and refrigeration (not just for +1 movement but also for your cities getting more health which equals factories and power).

If you're going for a real modern naval invasion you'll also want to grab the inland cities, so 3-4 transports full of paratroopers, 5-6 fully stocked carriers. Double or triple that amount if you don't have air supremacy or at least superiority.

All that said, I'd take an Expansive, industrous or organized leader above all the mentioned.

 

[ColossusXXIII]

Sad, nobody has even mentioned Mehmed 2... He's expansive and organized which amongst many amazing bonuses gives him double production speed of both the light house and harbor. Add the hammam which has great synergy with his expansive trait, plus the ottomans get great starting techs also. UU is of limited use, but who cares.

He may not be the best, but he should get an honorable mention.

 

[Kid R]

There seem to be 3 leaders specifically designed for watery maps, and that is Willem, Ragnar, and Hannibal. All 3 are financial which is very strong on the coast, and 5 of their 6 UBs/UUs are water-based. I'd take any of those 3 on a map "favoring naval supremacy" which seems to be another way of saying lots of coastal cities.

If we must have the supreme navy, well Ragnar and Willem have specific boat bonuses, and Hannibal is charismatic which opens up the important first couple of promos quickly. Ragnar's boat bonus is very good and lasts all game long, whereas Willem's is only age-of-sail, but is good then. Ragnar seems the best choice from that standpoint.

On the other hand creative and charismatic are IMO both better than aggressive. On an islandy map the extra culture-oomph of creative opens up pathways to unreachable islands more quickly. And if we need a strong navy we'll presumably be doing a lot of fighting so charismatic is great too.

As for the arguments along the lines of choose a leader that gets you to destroyers most quickly, that seems to be somewhat ducking the question

 

[Bibor]

As for the arguments along the lines of choose a leader that gets you to destroyers most quickly, that seems to be somewhat ducking the question

I'll argument it.

My vote goes for Darius.

One of the best early expansionists (ORG, Immortals).
Nice tech rate and recovery (FIN).
Cheap Factories (ORG).
- from drydock, forge and factory fixed by his übergrocer alone (+6!)
Immortals can and probably will open up HE and a GG early.

 

[enKage]

Hanni --> Financial + early nice UB.

The Dutch are good too, but their UB come too late to be a usefull as Carthaginian one

 

[stefista]

My pick is Huayna Capac. The focus above on willem's UB indicates the great need for hammers on water, and the issue that the levee is a late-coming UB. My preference for those island cities is to whip a cheap forge and run an engineer. Not ideal. But it can help get you up to the whip point on all the infrastructure you need...lighthouse, library, courthouse, etc.

 

[coanda]

Just thinking out loud here, but... I'd think Elizabeth would be pretty good on a water map. I've never tried it, but I'd think Phil. + Fin. is a combination that would really shine on for a mainly coastal civilization (with, presumably, lots of seafood resources giving surplus food and lots of coastal tiles being worked). On water maps I tend to go end up in universal suffrage rush-buying stuff late-game due to lack of other production opportunities in many cities, so the Stock Exchange would probably be a small but nice boost to that.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Ragnar is financial.
Berserkers are awesome.
His galleys can be 5 moves with theocracy/vassalage/gg (nav II and circum bonus)...

Ragnar's gonna pretty much dominate the islands around him, so has a pretty good chance to be first to destroyers. adding drydocks and the GG gives him nav II C1 destroyers - he basically rules the oceans at that point.