Best Unique Building?

[sampsa]

Even in a cuir game with a non-IND leader, there are usually a couple cities where forges are worthwhile.

Yes, this is a fair clarification.

 

[drewisfat]

@Henrik75 True, hippos can work as a way to support endless whipping while trying to flat out win the game with cataphracts.

Odeon only gets 1 additional happy face over a regular Colosseum. Not sure that warrants it being that high.

I considered Citadels but they replace Castles which are expensive at 100 hammers and also obsolete very early with Economics. And like you said Conqs are a much better path that as Spanish I'll often not even end up building Citadels. With a different civ I think they would be better.

For citadel I'd say you can often get stone, at least temporarily, at that point in the game, and that you don't have to build them in every city. There's also lots of goodies (trade route, espionage, culture, defense) that help it pay off. I suppose I also think castles are quit underrated in general. Economics is a low priority tech not needed til infantry, so PRO's bonus there shouldn't be such an afterthought. Would definitely be more welcomed on a PRO leader instead of Izzy though.

A regular non-CRE coloseum is 1/80 while Pericles is 1/20. And the side benefit of +3 and the ability to run 2 artists not only wins all border wars, but may even allow you to capitalize on city-flipping opportunities. Those might not be common in general, but with CRE/PHI Pericles is uniquely suited to go for them.

@sampsa Forges are a way to push hammers forward, which makes it worthwhile during a hammer lull compared to just building wealth. I think you might play in that lull less often than I do if you're keen on upgrading large numbers of HAs. That's my working theory as to why we're universes apart on forges. Generally I'm not going GMs unless PHI or GLh.

 

[sampsa]

@sampsa Forges are a way to push hammers forward, which makes it worthwhile during a hammer lull compared to just building wealth. I think you might play in that lull less often than I do if you're keen on upgrading large numbers of HAs. That's my working theory as to why we're universes apart on forges. Generally I'm not going GMs unless PHI or GLh.

Yeh we had that one discussion that I'm too lazy to find right now. Anyway I think there are more -focused alternatives to building forges everywhere. Failgold or directly building wealth and just growing to get more out of GA being the most obvious ones. My main point is just that always building a forge in every city is not a good play.

 

[ArchGhost]

Honestly don't think the Terrace is that amazing. In the perspective that, HC can already pop his borders even before Pottery tech if he needs to, and beyond the first border pop it's largely inconsequential. Let alone it being far from the most broken thing about HC's overall kit. That's why true CRE is so great, because it applies from the founding turn of the city, you don't have to pay the opportunity cost of building ANYTHING and can abuse your free border pops to Hell and back. But I guess it's just one more thing to throw on his pile of good stuff.

Partial to Ikhandas and Ziggurats myself as I like things that are easy enough to apply very often. Shaka's AGG combo makes it a slight economic boost for the cost of a Monument, and with AGG you might want to build early Barracks just to use the trait against barbs anyway instead of teching Archery or hoping for Horse/Copper.

The Ziggurat is the earliest courthouse as well as being cheaper and combined with Giggles' cheap Libraries you can setup a teching economy/recover from over REXing in one of the most crucial time-frames of the game, and easy city placement from CRE along with an improved Axeman if you *do* find copper...Sumeria is one of my most "chill" times playing the game. If he had been ORG instead of PRO he'd be my favorite leader hands down.

Almost all of the others are very "meh" outside of one situation where it actually does make sense to apply its unique thing...like Fippy mentioning the extra culture boost on Madrassas. Sometimes I will build a Library in a border city just to help out with border wars, and as she points out, 8 total culture per turn can be effective for that purpose if you build this early building -- early.

Sometimes will whip Ballcourts playing Pacal because +3 happy is a significant chunk and usually well-worth the hammer cost if entering whip-heavy war mode or such.

Have used Hammams in the same way in Elepult wars. They may be even better depending on how crunched for happy resources you are and how long the wars go on.

Masoleums can sometimes fill a similar role in long, drawn out wars, reducing weariness AND getting a +2 happy boost is a big shot in the arm. Considering at this tech stage they are are likely to be Cav or Artillery or Tank wars, it's not as likely as simply vassaling another target for a free +1 happy.

The Rathaus is very powerful in effect, mass whipping these can turn an entire economy around. Somewhere in one of the NC games I played in I whipped just four in a one turn and went from like a -4gpt deficit to +16 or something. But relying on getting to CoL to fix your economy (and that you couldn't do so with Currency first) for you is ignoring some blistering issues with your play.

Dikes are giant catfishes for me Too late to really matter, and they aren't gonna make your island cities build space parts...Sure sound good on paper though. Great in the Moai city. By the time you have steam power and cities mature enough to get Levees in them, you aren't gonna need the few extra hammers (such cities probably would want to avoid being settled with coast in the first place), and in island cities, getting them in place, likely with US though you *could* whip, proves your economy is powerful enough to not need those cities to have raw production.

Citadels are extremely specific to going siege with Izzy. They also don't hold a candle to her other unique. But the triple upgraded trebs/cannons out the gate with Barracks+Vassalage or settled GG are good fun, and having access to both options certainly does a lot to help Spain out.

Worst UB has got to be the Stele though. Comes on a CRE leader who doesn't even want it, and would have to tech Mysticism even if he did want it for help in border wars.

 

[coanda]

My basic case for the Terrace would be that while it's not a huge upgrade for any one city, it's additional free value in every. single. city. You put granaries everywhere anyways.

There are other UBs that give better upgrades to their base building than it does, but none of them on such an omnipresent building.

 

[AcaMetis]

Something else that makes the Terrace powerful is the fact that any cities you capture with a Granary (and if you're playing HC you're going to be capturing some cities sooner or later, most likely) ends up producing culture immediately. Not that you can't whip a quick Monument in most cases, HC does start with Mysticism after all, but that's one or two pop you can spend on something else instead.

Stele isn't the worst UB if you're going for a Culture victory, since usually you won't end up teching Astronomy in that case, and any cultural battles on your border you can usually turn in your favor with a Stele (Zara is CRE, but CRE alone isn't going to save you if Izzy plops a holy city right next to your face, or you neighbour another CRE leader, or Saladin plops down an 8 culture Madrassa, etc.). It's completely worthless early on, for sure, but it has some use cases.

 

[Orion Pax]

Wonder how folks’ ratings change when assuming unrestricted leaders? Have seen some allusions, but I think it’s fun to consider a building a part from a given leader.

Playing an ORG leader with Sumeria can be super fun, for example. Giving yourself the most time for a courthouse to payoff.

Any of the Colosseum UBs with a CRE Leader. For Space Race games I enjoy Babylon’s Garden since Health eclipses Happiness as an issue in general.

Both Sumeria & Babylon also have impeccable starting techs, but that’s a tangential matter.

 

[civac]

Sumeria's courthouse is cheaper to begin with. ORG is a bit overkill there.

Pacal of the Inca sounds good.

 

[Elliot_Ness]

I like the sacrificial altar. Keeps down maintenance while allowing lots of whipping.

Less maintenance means you can afford larger armies and the whip timer means you can produce them. Good synergy.

 

[Orion Pax]

Sumeria's courthouse is cheaper to begin with. ORG is a bit overkill there.

Not sure I’d say that. Ziggurats cost as much as Libraries. They’re only 25% cheaper than a courthouse, whereas ORG trait shaves off 50%. So the ORG trait saves more.

The combo is potent with it coming with Priesthood because making it super cheap makes it more viable to build earlier with less developed cities, while you may not have Research or Wealth as an option.

Pascal of Inca is definitely smooth gameplay though.

 

[reddishrecue]

I like the sacrificial altar. Keeps down maintenance while allowing lots of whipping.

Less maintenance means you can afford larger armies and the whip timer means you can produce them. Good synergy.

u know, i was liking this too. I often come back and think about things like this.