Best use of a great engineer?

[jmas]

Alright I just checked it out. The great Library is 350 hammers. An engineer can build it in 1 turn netting you 350 hammers.

Remember that if you have Marble, that's +100% towards the Great Library, and in that case the GE would be worth a lot less in terms of . Of course that doesn't mean you would want to lose the GLib to someone else (I'm a fan myself)...

 

[samthedagger]

I use them to rush-build wonders 90% of the time. I save them for GAs the other 10%. I haven't settled or bulbed one in ages. Their settle bonus is not worth it to me and I can usually tech fast enough that their bulb only saves me 1 turn of research.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I save them for GAs the other 10%

I can usually tech fast enough that their bulb only saves me 1 turn of research.

I can't believe you use GEs for golden ages! What a waste

If you are teching things like Machinery in 1 turn, you are:
a) playing quick speed (rare on these forums)
and / or
b) playing way below your difficulty level

Why not save for Mining Inc? Settling 1 GE is way better than burning one on a golden age IMO.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

A lot of that depends on the city too.

If you have a city with few hills, you might very well have pushed out the Pyramids with your second/third city and have a commerce madhouse in the Capital. This isn't always the case for me, but I've certainly had Capitals that weren't producing many hammers on their own, but were putting out a metric ton of commerce. In these cases, I think that settling the Great Engineer is a strong play simply because you're not going to have a whole lot of production in your Capital otherwise and you really want those multipliers built in the Capital even if they aren't going up anywhere else.

That I can definitely agree with. However, I usually regenerate a game that doesn't have at least a few hills in the capital BFC. I can't have my bureau capital taking 30 turns to build a university!

 

[StrategeryBush]

I just thought that I'd add....

GEs Bring Good Things to Life

 

[Indiansmoke]

it's 3 hammers + 6 beakers, which is still the best you can get.

How is it the best you can get?

Without rep an eng gives 3 hammers + 3 beakers total 6
a scientist gives 6 beackers plus 1 hammer total 7
a merchant fives 1 food + 6 gold total 7

So how is the eng the best?

 

[cabert]

How is it the best you can get?

Without rep an eng gives 3 hammers + 3 beakers total 6
a scientist gives 6 beackers plus 1 hammer total 7
a merchant fives 1 food + 6 gold total 7

So how is the eng the best?

1 hammer is worth more than 1 beaker

 

[Lansky]

The best use of a great engineer is the one that will best help you with your victory condition. All the the uses of any great person are powerful when used properly, some are just more niche than others.

GE is definitely the best rounded settled specialist.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

GE is definitely the best rounded settled specialist.

???
Great Prophet 2 (only 1 less than GE), 5 (only 1 less than GM), and 3 if in rep...
I would think that's the most versatile settled gp

 

[Lansky]

Every settled GP under rep gives 3 beakers, this is immaterial in the discussion. The difference between 2 and 0 is 2. The difference between 50,000 and 49,998 is 2. Adding more numbers does not change the base comparison. Why are we leaving out the 2 culture with Sisteen btw =P

Anyway I will take 3 beakers over 5 gold anyday in a general situation. There are soooooo many ways to get gold in this game. There is a reason why the gold giving specialists give more gold than the hammer giving specialists give hammers. I can't trade away my extra sugar for 20 hammers per turn. Same holds true for research in trade, however it can be more directly compared to gold via the commerce slider.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Every settled GP under rep gives 3 beakers, this is immaterial in the discussion. The difference between 2 and 0 is 2. The difference between 50,000 and 49,998 is 2. Adding more numbers does not change the base comparison. Why are we leaving out the 2 culture with Sisteen btw =P

This isn't the same. Because Eng in rep gives 3 6. BUT, a prophet in rep gives hammers, science, AND gold. Settled in a bureau capital is awesome. That's why I chose to compare in Rep. The engineer is a very solid GP and even stronger in Rep, but when it comes to VERSATILITY (when settled) which is what we were talking about, the prophet is better.

Non-rep prophets settled in wall street city > GE settled in bureaucracy IMO. Especially since you can usually spam prophets to your hearts content and faster. So I can settle 3 GP in Wall Street city in the same time most games can pop 1 GE. I guess I just like prophets more for settled versatility. But GEs are just plain stronger in most non-settled cases.

 

[jmas]

I can't believe you use GEs for golden ages! What a waste

Maybe he's counting clearly won games. I have one now where I'll be capturing at least a few more cities for domination. I planned to use 3 GPeople for my 4th Golden Age of the game (I'm Philosophical, and built the Taj) and was surprised to pop a GE while saving the GPeople. I thought about using him to build the Ironworks, but I have huge production already with drafting, whipping, and a few cities with lots of . If it's not too tedious I'll try totaling up my before and after triggering the Golden Age. I bet it will compete well with, if not exceed, what I could get with the Ironworks. And the will be ri-gosh-darn-diculous.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

That's a pretty niche circumstance, though. I was responding to a post that said 90% of the time he uses it for rushing wonders, the other 10% is for golden ages. Bleh! In your situation, it might make sense given the status of the game and it sounds like you're in the mid to late game. But most times, using a GE for a golden age is such a waste again

 

[Lansky]

Blitz I still don't follow your line of thinking. Additionally why is settling a gold producing GP in a bueruacracy capital "awesome"? Settling a GP in Wallstreet is great, just as settling a GE in Oxford is great, just as settling either in IW is great. The direct comparison is -

GE 3H 3B
GP 2H 5G

GE net gain - 1H 3B
GP net gain - 5g

I will take the engineer. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


Edit - I also use GE's, especially late game, for Golden Ages quite frequently. When I want a Golden Age I do not really care what type of GP I burn.

 

[Grey Fox]

In the late game Golden Ages make more sense (more tiles improved, more civics to change to) and then you can really pump out Great Engineers, what with all those factories and stuff. And when there is nothing left worth rushing, and you or someone got the corporations, and settling this late isn't really worth it. What else are you going to do?

Late enough I might even bulb a turn or so on Future tech but that's irrelevant

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

In your situation, it might make sense given the status of the game and it sounds like you're in the mid to late game

I totally agree that using one in the later game for a golden age makes sense.

Blitz I still don't follow your line of thinking. Additionally why is settling a gold producing GP in a bueruacracy capital "awesome"? Settling a GP in Wallstreet is great, just as settling a GE in Oxford is great, just as settling either in IW is great.

It's a matter of being able to get many more GrProph in the early game when gold and hammers are more rare to come by. Again, it is likely that you can produce 2-3 prophets in the same time that it would take (in an average game) to produce a GE with a forge engineer. Since my bureau capital will generally get a market and a bank, settling 2-3 prophets there turns into 17-26 per turn possibly allowing a slider bump. And then, add in the 50% boost to hammers in bureau capital making 4-6 become 6-9 per turn. No loss to rounding either. Settled engineer 3 becomes 4 due to rounding (iirc). 3 is nice, but not very versatile. With you can use slider for EP/culture/or science.

Whereas that 1 settled GE will generate 4.5 (rounded down to 4) and 6 per turn (if in oxford/academy) which only can be used for science. Powerful, but not versatile.

Mostly, though, it's due to the fact that you can generate lots of GrProph with a little effort. But you must wait until factories to gain access to multiple Eng specialists.

Also, understand that I'm not playing immortal/deity

 

[Lansky]

For rounding you have to round all the tiles with the specialists so maybe an odd number evens it out, maybe it doesn't. Getting very very hypothetical there.

Where do you get all these Great Propehts? Why would you get that many early game? The massive 1 Great Prophet point from the early wonders? Running priests instead of scientists AND building temples prior to libraries? To reverse the question on myself with engineers, I will often run 1 engineer off of a forge in my GP farm and see if I get lucky. Sometimes I get very lucky. Granted if I want a more sure GS then I do not do this.

Granted immortal+ the AI has more gold to help you out, but even at lower levels I just do not personally put that much stock in gold via GP. GM are much stronger for gold not due to the 1gpt extra, but their extra food is potentially another half merchant specialist, netting more gold and more gpp. I still stick with the notion that beakers and hammers are the two most important outputs in the vast majority of games.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Where do you get all these Great Propehts? Why would you get that many early game? The massive 1 Great Prophet point from the early wonders? Running priests instead of scientists AND building temples prior to libraries?

Dood, if ur going for GE for a strat, I'm going for a GP for a strat both instead of GS. That simple. Holy City (captured usually) + 1 temple = 4 priests. Not that rare or difficult. May not get the holy city with shrine until early ADs, but ur not getting a second engineer until Assembly Line.

Gold via GP early on is usually more than gold via trades (on a per turn basis). Besides, it's not just gold, it's the combination of hammers in bureau capital and gold.

Again, I though we're supposed to be discussing versatility, not raw power.

 

[Lansky]

Ahem - To reverse the question on myself with engineers, I will often run 1 engineer off of a forge in my GP farm and see if I get lucky. Sometimes I get very lucky. Granted if I want a more sure GS then I do not do this. Hardly claim my first 3 great people, should or are, GE's.

I said well rounded. To me that means giving the most useful stats. I do not see gold as useful. I think we've exhausted this dicussion quite well by now however.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I think we've exhausted this dicussion quite well by now however.

I'll agree to that. We both value gold differently, then.