Beta 11

Are you sure in the totally no culture from non-state religious buildings?
If I may suggest, halve the culture you normally get from them, and only get the other half if it's your state religion's building.
So temple, monastery, cathedral: 0,1,2 without, and 1,2,4 with state religion
 
Are you sure in the totally no culture from non-state religious buildings?
If I may suggest, halve the culture you normally get from them, and only get the other half if it's your state religion's building.
So temple, monastery, cathedral: 0,1,2 without, and 1,2,4 with state religion

Only Temples and Monasteries give culture Caths give +50% culture, which is still state religion independent.

Temples give 1 point, there is no 0.5 points and Temples should be tied to state rleigion.

Monasteries can be split into 1 regular and 1 extra.
 
Only Temples and Monasteries give culture Caths give +50% culture, which is still state religion independent.

Temples give 1 point, there is no 0.5 points and Temples should be tied to state rleigion.

Monasteries can be split into 1 regular and 1 extra.

Yeah, my mistake. I meant shrines of course.
I already said 0 to the temples.
So monasteries 1+1, shrines 2+2. Deal? ;)

Btw, right now you cannot build cathedral if it's not from your state religion
 
Oh, one other thing
How is this handled if you switch to Free Religion?
 
Cathedrals need State Religion to be build, but the bonuses stay if you build it and then you switch religion.

Free Religion = Religious Tolerance (long names cannot fit the Civic screen, just like Limited Monarchy = Constitutional Monarchy). Under FR you still have a State Religion, Paganism is the only civic that disallows State Religion.
 
RFC:E's version of "Free Religion" actually makes a lot more sense than the 'original'.

All nations today have a state religion whether its on officially or not .. other religions just get same opportunities with regards to taxation, building etc. (most cases anyway).

Any word on next release? Get the impression that Norse had their UHV tweaked and want to give them a spin :D
 
Any word on next release? Get the impression that Norse had their UHV tweaked and want to give them a spin :D

We are close to the next release, but I still plan to update quite a few things for Beta 12. Especially fixing everything regarding the map changes
If it's ok for 3Miro, we can release it in a week or so
 
We are close to the next release, but I still plan to update quite a few things for Beta 12. Especially fixing everything regarding the map changes
If it's ok for 3Miro, we can release it in a week or so

There are more things that I want to do anyway. As I said, I want this to be the last Beta before we go to Release Candidate. Basically all the "large" features have to be done now.
 
Free Religion = Religious Tolerance (long names cannot fit the Civic screen, just like Limited Monarchy = Constitutional Monarchy). Under FR you still have a State Religion

We should update the civilopedia entry for Free Religion, that was the confusion for me too...
 
Free Religion = Religious Tolerance (long names cannot fit the Civic screen, just like Limited Monarchy = Constitutional Monarchy). Under FR you still have a State Religion, Paganism is the only civic that disallows State Religion.

I didn't know that, thanks for the info. Perhaps just calling it "tolerance" would be better?
 
I agree on removing the wild animals. I also like the Maghreb changes, maybe some more fish in the Agadir area? Also what about a source of elephant in that area? Elephants in that are of Africa were hunted to extinction in the timeframe of the mod but there was once an ivory trade there.

I meant to ask if it was possible to code region specific UUs? Like if England conquered Scotland and then could build a special highlander unit (But only in cities in the Scotland
region)? They would basically be like extra UUs for each civ but with a few differences. There would be a limit on how many you could build (like missionary limit) in order to avoid ignoring the original unit that it replaces. My intention is to see, say, a united Great Britain field a stack of 10 line infantry and 2 Highlanders. The highlanders would have a rough terrain combat bonus or something, making them slightly superior to ordinary line infantry, but only a few can built.

More examples:

France comes into possession of Switzerland, now France can recruit swiss pikemen (They made up the bulk of their army up until the 17th century). Or maybe a single Swiss Guard unit, that receives an enormous bonus for city defense?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_pikemen

Spain comes into possession of Wallonia (Southern Belgium, or anywhere in Belgium for the purposes of this mod). Now Spain can raise Walloon infantry in Brussels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walloon_Guards

Austria comes into possession of Hungary. Now Austria can train Hungarian Huszars or tall, slightly stronger Hungarian Grenadiers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Hussar#The_hussars_of_medieval_Hungary

Ottomans get a new default UU, the Sipahi, replacing the knight or armored lancer. The Ottomans will still have the Janissary as a unique unit, but they must be recruited from conquered Christian populations in the Balkans as in real life, not from Anatolia. ;) Or the Sipahis could be scratched, Janissaries reincorporated, and Mameluke calvary units made available in Egypt? Or Sipahis, Janissaries, AND Mamelukes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sipahi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary

Russia will undergo a similar change, the Streltsy replacing the musketman, and Cossacks needing to be recruited from the territory of Kievan Rus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streltsy

Those are just a few of the arrangements that could be possible. If this could be coded and enough people support the idea, I'm sure there are enough history buffs sitting in the countries I haven't mentioned with examples that would suit other civs. :)

This idea is simply awesome. I don't know how to make it happen, but the Varangian Guard needs to be available for Justinian. Purple berserkir must wind up in this game. I'm not sure what their bonus would be (they served primarily as body guards, but also functioned as the ace up the sleeve as reserve warriors only unleased in clutch situations) - Drill, Garrison, or heavy defensive bonuses would probably work. Maybe Justinian would need a city north of the Black Sea in order to build them?

The Gustavan military of Sweden relied on the Hakkapeliitta of Finland, which could be Pistolier replacements only available in Finnish cities. They were known for their speed in battle and were used for scouting - giving the already lethal pistolier a 4th movement point would be horribly unbalanced, so maybe free mobility promotions would make them slightly more dangerous (hills mean nothing to them), without making them stronger. The Russian hills and forests would be much easier to tear through with these. They could also be utilised as lethal forward light field cavalry this way without hills/forests slowing them down (start the turn on the same tile as infantry/siegecraft, attack 2 tiles forward, fall one tile back; infantry advances one tile forward & cavalry finishes turn on same tile as infantry).

Conditional UUs would be awesome, and I'm sure each civ could gain at least one extra unique unit - the Pecheneg/Kipchak horsemen could be employed by the Byzantines to attack Bulgaria while Bulgaria employs the Cuman horsemen to attack the Byz (these are already sort of implemented by barb horsemen, but I think the concept could work). Another angle to approach this from is as a great way to implement minor civs that can't otherwise be implemented in the game, and make them available to any civ to hold a given province - Mamluk soldiers could be trained in Egypt by any nation holding ground there, finally providing Mamluk presence and hopefully quelling debates about Mamluk representation in the game. Highlanders could be built by anyone holding Scotland (Spanish- or French-backed highlanders causing trouble for Protestant England? Awesome.). This might make less historical sense, but be easier to code. If possible to code without much difficulty, an additional requirement could be added to keep universal UUs somewhat historical (IE Mamluks require Islam as state religion and/or present in the city, so only Arabia, Ottos or Indies build them on their own, and no Mamluks come from Byzantine Alexandria . . . unless of course an alt-history loving Islamic Euro human is at the helm).

I don't think this would break game balance too greatly, as most of the UUs wouldn't be well utilised by the AI - with the Otto's unit spam, what're a few more? English shipping Scots to the Continent? Not likely. Russia is too backwards to ever be a real threat to the human, Cossacks or not. The human is the only one who would enjoy the feature, and the human is the only one who counts, really.

I'm sure it would be a pain to code, but this kind of idea would make a stellar addition to an already stellar mod.
 
minor peevee for me

Huszar (Hungarian, early/mid game UU) and Hussar (lategame standard unit) is based on the same historical unit ... couldn't one of them be retooled into a different historical base?
 
This idea is simply awesome. I don't know how to make it happen, but the Varangian Guard needs to be available for Justinian. Purple berserkir must wind up in this game. I'm not sure what their bonus would be (they served primarily as body guards, but also functioned as the ace up the sleeve as reserve warriors only unleased in clutch situations) - Drill, Garrison, or heavy defensive bonuses would probably work. Maybe Justinian would need a city north of the Black Sea in order to build them?

The Gustavan military of Sweden relied on the Hakkapeliitta of Finland, which could be Pistolier replacements only available in Finnish cities. They were known for their speed in battle and were used for scouting - giving the already lethal pistolier a 4th movement point would be horribly unbalanced, so maybe free mobility promotions would make them slightly more dangerous (hills mean nothing to them), without making them stronger. The Russian hills and forests would be much easier to tear through with these. They could also be utilised as lethal forward light field cavalry this way without hills/forests slowing them down (start the turn on the same tile as infantry/siegecraft, attack 2 tiles forward, fall one tile back; infantry advances one tile forward & cavalry finishes turn on same tile as infantry).

Conditional UUs would be awesome, and I'm sure each civ could gain at least one extra unique unit - the Pecheneg/Kipchak horsemen could be employed by the Byzantines to attack Bulgaria while Bulgaria employs the Cuman horsemen to attack the Byz (these are already sort of implemented by barb horsemen, but I think the concept could work). Another angle to approach this from is as a great way to implement minor civs that can't otherwise be implemented in the game, and make them available to any civ to hold a given province - Mamluk soldiers could be trained in Egypt by any nation holding ground there, finally providing Mamluk presence and hopefully quelling debates about Mamluk representation in the game. Highlanders could be built by anyone holding Scotland (Spanish- or French-backed highlanders causing trouble for Protestant England? Awesome.). This might make less historical sense, but be easier to code. If possible to code without much difficulty, an additional requirement could be added to keep universal UUs somewhat historical (IE Mamluks require Islam as state religion and/or present in the city, so only Arabia, Ottos or Indies build them on their own, and no Mamluks come from Byzantine Alexandria . . . unless of course an alt-history loving Islamic Euro human is at the helm).

I don't think this would break game balance too greatly, as most of the UUs wouldn't be well utilised by the AI - with the Otto's unit spam, what're a few more? English shipping Scots to the Continent? Not likely. Russia is too backwards to ever be a real threat to the human, Cossacks or not. The human is the only one who would enjoy the feature, and the human is the only one who counts, really.

I'm sure it would be a pain to code, but this kind of idea would make a stellar addition to an already stellar mod.

I like the idea but it also triggered an idea :)
might even be easier to implement and would solve 2 things at once :D
Mercenaries still don't work properly do they? (RFC inherent issue?)
(Maybe I just don't know how but I usually hire a few mercs and then the hire window remains empty)

Maybe this UU idea could be implemented as a Mercenary training option if you own a city(or all cities) in that province/area (limited amount of units per turn(s))
e.g.
Say be able to hire 1 Genoese Crossbowman every 5 turns if you own Genoa
2 Genoese Crossbowmen every 5 turns if you own Genoa and Milan etc.
I'd favor a quick respawn, it can be expensive instead and capped.
 
This idea is simply awesome. I don't know how to make it happen, but the Varangian Guard needs to be available for Justinian. Purple berserkir must wind up in this game. I'm not sure what their bonus would be (they served primarily as body guards, but also functioned as the ace up the sleeve as reserve warriors only unleased in clutch situations) - Drill, Garrison, or heavy defensive bonuses would probably work. Maybe Justinian would need a city north of the Black Sea in order to build them?

The Gustavan military of Sweden relied on the Hakkapeliitta of Finland, which could be Pistolier replacements only available in Finnish cities. They were known for their speed in battle and were used for scouting - giving the already lethal pistolier a 4th movement point would be horribly unbalanced, so maybe free mobility promotions would make them slightly more dangerous (hills mean nothing to them), without making them stronger. The Russian hills and forests would be much easier to tear through with these. They could also be utilised as lethal forward light field cavalry this way without hills/forests slowing them down (start the turn on the same tile as infantry/siegecraft, attack 2 tiles forward, fall one tile back; infantry advances one tile forward & cavalry finishes turn on same tile as infantry).

Conditional UUs would be awesome, and I'm sure each civ could gain at least one extra unique unit - the Pecheneg/Kipchak horsemen could be employed by the Byzantines to attack Bulgaria while Bulgaria employs the Cuman horsemen to attack the Byz (these are already sort of implemented by barb horsemen, but I think the concept could work). Another angle to approach this from is as a great way to implement minor civs that can't otherwise be implemented in the game, and make them available to any civ to hold a given province - Mamluk soldiers could be trained in Egypt by any nation holding ground there, finally providing Mamluk presence and hopefully quelling debates about Mamluk representation in the game. Highlanders could be built by anyone holding Scotland (Spanish- or French-backed highlanders causing trouble for Protestant England? Awesome.). This might make less historical sense, but be easier to code. If possible to code without much difficulty, an additional requirement could be added to keep universal UUs somewhat historical (IE Mamluks require Islam as state religion and/or present in the city, so only Arabia, Ottos or Indies build them on their own, and no Mamluks come from Byzantine Alexandria . . . unless of course an alt-history loving Islamic Euro human is at the helm).

I don't think this would break game balance too greatly, as most of the UUs wouldn't be well utilised by the AI - with the Otto's unit spam, what're a few more? English shipping Scots to the Continent? Not likely. Russia is too backwards to ever be a real threat to the human, Cossacks or not. The human is the only one who would enjoy the feature, and the human is the only one who counts, really.

I'm sure it would be a pain to code, but this kind of idea would make a stellar addition to an already stellar mod.

I did think that there would be other people as interested and enthusiastic as this. :) Like you said, there are enough examples for each civ to have atleast one conditional UU. Your major powers like the Ottomans and Western Europeans could easily have two. I would say that we now have the Byzantines and Swedish figured out, if somebody can find art. I don't think the Hakkapeliitta should be too hard to find.

I wouldn't worry too much about balance because I described the idea with balance in mind. Most of these powerful Guard units (Swiss, Walloon, Varangian) should probably be limited to 2 or maybe even 1 unit with only very high city defense bonuses. Also, let's face it, Swedish AI isn't going to take Finland in every game, far from it. There'll just be an occasional game where Sweden takes Finland and uses their new UU to bully Russia more so than in other games. Will Spain really take Flanders in every game? Will Austria really take Hungary in every game?

More Conditional UUs:

Whoever comes into possession of Portugal (including Portugal) can recruit 2 Caçadores (Historically as did Britain and Portugal, Spain to a lesser extent). Caçadores replace line infantry, with extra first strikes, and penalty on defense. (They are basically skirmisher infantry.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caçadores

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14630

Al-Andalus comes into possession of Marrakesh, or any city in the Marrakech or Morocco regions (Note that Tangier is excluded, so Al-Andalus starts without such a city). Now they will be able to recruit Tuareg or Sudanese soldiers from the Muslim populations of the Sahara. They would replace spearmen or guisarmes and have open terrain combat bonuses, suitable for use against Spanish and Portuguese cavalry in the open areas of central Iberia. They would have black skin and wear blue, looking exactly like the men in blue pictured here. http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15643 (I got very, very lucky) :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg
 
Good reference.

At any rate, I don't want to see Crusades against Byzantine Jerusalem, so offensive Crusades against Orthodox nations are still out of the picture.

I may allow defensive ones (which is still a type of local aggression similar to the events in your reference).

A slight problem here is a frequently Othodox Arabia frequently leads to no crusades. Any way to adjust Arabia to really really REALLY prefer Islam to Orthodoxy?
 
A slight problem here is a frequently Othodox Arabia frequently leads to no crusades. Any way to adjust Arabia to really really REALLY prefer Islam to Orthodoxy?

Yeah it can be really disappointing.
In my last game I played for leading a crusade, bribed my way to be the pope's lapdog and everyone's favourite neighbour.
I was waiting and waiting when the crusade will come, just to find out later that I was facing a totally stable Orthodox Arabia, so no crusades at all :S

Hopefully we can find something to improve the chances of Arabia sticking to Islam
 
Yeah it can be really disappointing.
In my last game I played for leading a crusade, bribed my way to be the pope's lapdog and everyone's favourite neighbour.
I was waiting and waiting when the crusade will come, just to find out later that I was facing a totally stable Orthodox Arabia, so no crusades at all :S

Hopefully we can find something to improve the chances of Arabia sticking to Islam

give them more Missionaries, 5 should be good
 
give them more Missionaries, 5 should be good

Due to the Arabian UP, Missionaries are useless. The UP alone should be enough to keep them Muslims, the only explanation that I can think of is Arabia getting a Byzantine city on the first turn (before Islam is founded) or the Byz bribe them to convert.
 
Not even sure Byzantium bribes them )probably at war after the flip), simply more orthodox infrastructure from the get go so AI decision is obvious .. reckon it has to do with the -1 turn phenomenon.

Does the UP apply to "whatever" state religion or just Islam? He is quite settler happy so if all new cities starts with Islam + buildings the chances of him staying orthodox would dwindle.
 
Can't we just add an AI hack that force converts Arabia to Islam the turn after their spawn (when Islam is founded)?

EDIT: Or make their UP always spread Islam instead of any state religion when they are AI.
 
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