Beta 11

[AbsintheRed]

I will change, that Arabia starts with Islam as a state religion (on spawn), with their UP Islam will spread to their cities.
If it's still not enough, and the AI still converts to Orthodoxy in most games, then we should remove Orthodoxy from their core cities when they flip to them

 

[ezzlar]

Or change UP to religious prosecution to state religion when capturing cities?

 

[3Miro]

I will change, that Arabia starts with Islam as a state religion (on spawn), with their UP Islam will spread to their cities.
If it's still not enough, and the AI still converts to Orthodoxy in most games, then we should remove Orthodoxy from their core cities when they flip to them

When Arabia spawns, Islam doesn't exist, so you cannot make them start with Islam.

The following three steps ALWAYS take space:

Turn 1: Arabia spawns and founds their capital.
Turn 2: Islam is founded in Damascus AND Arabia converts to Islam (the AI always converts to the first religion that it comes across).
Turn 3: Orthodox cities flip and Islam is spread to all of them automatically.

It is some time afterwards that Arabia changes back to Orthodoxy.

Since both Islam and Orthodoxy are present in all the cities, they should be evaluated somewhat close. The difference should come from Faith Points (which reset on conversion) and the fact that Arabia holds the Holy City for Islam. There has to be something else in play for Arabia to abandon Islam.

If Arabia can benefit from something, then it is Prosecutors. However, those should not spawn on the first turn, but on the same turn as the workers.

 

[Opera]

You could make it so they value less orthodoxy. There's no interest for them to switch to Orthodoxy.

 

[3Miro]

You could make it so they value less orthodoxy. There's no interest for them to switch to Orthodoxy.

Religions have a civ specific spread factor. Perhaps I should "teach" the AI to take that into consideration.

This is a good idea, although it may lead to a more historically "strict" scenarios.

 

[Opera]

True; I meant it only for Arabia, at least to ensure Crusades do happen against them. Whether to use that for every civ or not is up to you.

 

[AdrienIer]

Turn 2: Islam is founded in Damascus

In my last game it got founded in Sour, but I WB it back to Damascus. Is it a bug ?
Also, Islam did not spread to Jerusalem when I adopted Islam.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Religions have a civ specific spread factor. Perhaps I should "teach" the AI to take that into consideration.

This is a good idea, although it may lead to a more historically "strict" scenarios.

Probably it's not a good idea. I like this kind of freedom in the game
As Opera said, Arabia is the only real problem, because of the crusades

When Arabia spawns, Islam doesn't exist, so you cannot make them start with Islam.

But Byzantium starts with Orthodoxy, this isn't possible for Arabia at all?

 

[AbsintheRed]

The following three steps ALWAYS take space:

Turn 1: Arabia spawns and founds their capital.
Turn 2: Islam is founded in Damascus AND Arabia converts to Islam (the AI always converts to the first religion that it comes across).
Turn 3: Orthodox cities flip and Islam is spread to all of them automatically.

The 2nd step is not totally clear.
Arabia always converts to Islam? Even if it's first city is not Damascus?
Because from your previous post:

...the only explanation that I can think of is Arabia getting a Byzantine city on the first turn (before Islam is founded)...

 

[Samsa]

Isnt't it possible to spawn an indipendent Damascus as holy city for islam one turn before Arabia spawns, and let it instantly flip to Arabia as capital?
IIRC in SoI the Timurids spawn with Smarakand as their capital!

 

[3Miro]

The Suor issue happens if Arabia manages to conquer a city on the very first turn. Then Islam gets founded in that city and not in Damascus.

If you make Arabia Muslim to begin with, then on the very first turn they will auto-turn to No state religion as they cannot stay Muslim as they have no cities with Islam. They need to first have a Muslim city and then convert.

This is not a problem for the Pope and the Byzantines as both their religions are pre-founded before the game starts. Both of them start with cities with Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

The AI always converts to the first religion that crosses its borders (except Lithuania, which weights the religion against the UP).

The map around Damascus should prevent Arabia from reaching and conquering a city on the first turn.

 

[3Miro]

Isnt't it possible to spawn an indipendent Damascus as holy city for islam one turn before Arabia spawns, and let it instantly flip to Arabia as capital?
IIRC in SoI the Timurids spawn with Smarakand as their capital!

Flipping capitals is very tricky and requires special coding.

 

[AdrienIer]

The Suor issue happens if Arabia manages to conquer a city on the very first turn. Then Islam gets founded in that city and not in Damascus.

I never conquered Sour, that's the problem...

 

[3Miro]

I never conquered Sour, that's the problem...

You played as Arabia, you never conquered Sour, but Islam was founded in Sour?

This means that you got the -1 turn bug. This happens only if you play as Arabia and the autorun takes one extra turn. I have not been able to figure out the reason for that bug, but usually save/load fixes it (save/load from the autorun sequence).

 

[Opera]

If you make Arabia Muslim to begin with, then on the very first turn they will auto-turn to No state religion as they cannot stay Muslim as they have no cities with Islam. They need to first have a Muslim city and then convert.

Are you sure about this? I can't seem to find anything related to this in the DLL. IMO the problem would be that even if it did, if it had one city with Orthodoxy and 0 with Islam, it would switch away to Orthodoxy.

The best way IMO is still to enforce a muslim arabia. Maybe do a pre-spawn check on Sour and co. to remove Orthodoxy.

 

[Jusos2108]

Religions have a civ specific spread factor. Perhaps I should "teach" the AI to take that into consideration.

This is a good idea, although it may lead to a more historically "strict" scenarios.

This is already in use in SoI and it doesn't cause any problems there.

If you make Arabia Muslim to begin with, then on the very first turn they will auto-turn to No state religion as they cannot stay Muslim as they have no cities with Islam. They need to first have a Muslim city and then convert.

As far as I can say, this is incorrect.

 

[3Miro]

As far as I can say, this is incorrect.

I will test that today, it is only one line in RFCEurope.WB to make Arabia Islamic on start, but without Islamic cities, they should not be allowed to keep the religion.

 

[Opera]

Just tested and it doesn't switch you away, whether you have a city or not even.

It does make it so there is no holy city though. Says you founded Islam but you never get the holy city. Kind of makes sense but I'm not sure you want that

 

[3Miro]

Just tested and it doesn't switch you away, whether you have a city or not even.

It does make it so there is no holy city though. Says you founded Islam but you never get the holy city. Kind of makes sense but I'm not sure you want that

Unexpected.

In that case though, we should make Islam the state religion for Arabia.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Unexpected.

In that case though, we should make Islam the state religion for Arabia.

I disagree. Would be strange to have Islam without a holy city