Beta 11

[3Miro]

The edited map does seem to be a bit more accurate, but Austria does have an awful lot of resources imo. In average >4 per city, Germany only around 2 per city currently.
But I've only looked at the screenshots, if other changes were made to the german map things might look different. What the AI does with the whole situation would be another thing

Austria stats late and is somewhat weak, a buff would be good for them.

We can control the German AI, currently it is at a reasonable level (not the powerhouse they used to be). I will incorporate the changes and see how it works out.

 

[Kartoffelvampir]

@Daffy
Whoops, must have missed that one, but i don't think that i have to put up a new version for this

@Caliom:

About the argument Augsburg and Salzburg aren't on the Danube:
Technically correct, but first: Preslav isn't on the Danube either, and neither is Marseille on the Rhone or Cadiz on the Guadalquivir or Prague on the Elbe or etc., and second are both next to rivers who end in the danube (Lech and the Salzach iirc), so I think they should definitly be next do the river (because otherwise there would probably a need to rearrange the whole map, if we take your argument in account)

Also, I think Salzburg is to far Western in your map, that spot is imho already in Tirol. Salzburg should be halfway between Augsburg and Wien, here there are 2 spots to the first and 5 to the second.

As am alternativ, i would suggest to move the Mountain there to the west and Salzburg to the Mountain, like on the picture.



I personally don't think there should be another city between Salzburg and Wien, btw - the area would me much to crowded, and also i prefer to have a few good cities over a lot mediocre ones, which just leaves annoying Micromanagement, not to mention the higher tech-cost.

Also, what are the plains in bohemia suppose to be?

Edit: Also, Prague lies south of th Elbe, so somehow bohemia looks kinda less accurate to me now.

 

[Caliom]

About the argument Augsburg and Salzburg aren't on the Danube:
Technically correct, but first: Preslav isn't on the Danube either, and neither is Marseille on the Rhone or Cadiz on the Guadalquivir or Prague on the Elbe or etc., and second are both next to rivers who end in the danube (Lech and the Salzach iirc), so I think they should definitly be next do the river (because otherwise there would probably a need to rearrange the whole map, if we take your argument in account)

I agree with you. The river thing was a poor argument, but i didn't move the cities because i thougth they shouldnt be on the river, but to make room for another city.
I have no problem if we stay with only three cites, Augsburg, Salzburg and Wien. The area is very small, and most people would prefer a few good cities over many medicore ones, as you do. It was just a try to see if it could be done differently. And i for myself like the idea to have a few small cities, if they are historic and have at least a strategic use (the problem is strategic locations arent important in civ and that one rare resource can be aquired in a different way).
I also like it when city radiuses overlap. This creates tension and cities/civs have to battle over tiles.
I also thought that one more city would help the austrian AI, as austrian cities tend to be very small due to lack of helath and happines. But if we can make the AI to settle the space between Wien and Venedig i would be fine.
Research isnt a problem. Upkeep is very low, there is commerce from traderoutes
and research is slowed down by the timeline anyway.

Also, what are the plains in bohemia suppose to be?

Edit: Also, Prague lies south of th Elbe, so somehow bohemia looks kinda less accurate to me now.

As i said it was only a try. I have no knowledge of the area raound Prague. The plains are there to compensate for more flatland in that area. They can be changed if you want, also the riverplacement. But i think Prague would fit one tile north.


What i realy find important is that salt and barley are removed from german territory and that austria on the other hand has access to more health resources.

Also notice that i switched the positione of iron and silver north west of Prague. This way germany has easier acces to iron if they fail to get the iron on the rhine.
Btw. Lithuania has problems to get access to iron. They have one but its far to way east. They often found the city very late and they alo found it in moscows flip zone.

 

[merijn_v1]

Hm.... This is an interesting point. You did get that problem in regular RFC if you play with Spain or Germany. I will think of how to possibly do this. We can easily make the "conquest" conditions to involve vassalization, but the idea of England is to conquer France , not vassallize it. Maybe we should add something about the Vassal being willing to sell cities to the master, then you can buy the Burgundian city.

I want to make Beta 12 and then instead of Beta 13, we should have RC1, which will fix most of the gameplay and leave us with minor tweaks and of course art. Cosmetic changes like the order of the UHV conditions should be handled at that stage.

I didn't play vanilla RFC for a long time, so I don't remember.

 

[Hameigh]

I just recently updated to beta 11 hoping the AA issue was fixed. I played a game as the Dutch and it appeared correctly. However I then played a game as portugal, conquered all of both spain and cordoba, but then the AA didn't appear when I finished astronomy. I waited until other civs reached astronomy, but it still didn't appear and I don't know how to add it in WB. The game then crashed from memory allocation so I don't have a save, but if other people could test it and see.

 

[3Miro]

I just recently updated to beta 11 hoping the AA issue was fixed. I played a game as the Dutch and it appeared correctly. However I then played a game as portugal, conquered all of both spain and cordoba, but then the AA didn't appear when I finished astronomy. I waited until other civs reached astronomy, but it still didn't appear and I don't know how to add it in WB. The game then crashed from memory allocation so I don't have a save, but if other people could test it and see.

On Beta 11, the AA is there the whole time, there is nothing to "not appear". Do yo have a savegame?

 

[merijn_v1]

I just recently updated to beta 11 hoping the AA issue was fixed. I played a game as the Dutch and it appeared correctly. However I then played a game as portugal, conquered all of both spain and cordoba, but then the AA didn't appear when I finished astronomy. I waited until other civs reached astronomy, but it still didn't appear and I don't know how to add it in WB. The game then crashed from memory allocation so I don't have a save, but if other people could test it and see.

You can use the autosave.

 

[Kartoffelvampir]

As i said it was only a try. I have no knowledge of the area raound Prague. The plains are there to compensate for more flatland in that area.

Ah, I see. I initially tought there were supposed to balance the new "food"-recourse in Prague, which seemed strange to me, considering its a plain-(hill?)-barley.

For the health resource in Austria: maybe adding a deer in the Carpats near moravia would do the trick (would make that position a pretty strong city, through).

Or Moving the pig in Caranthia a bit and/or discouraging the venetian AI from founding a city there somehow: being possible to found a City in Southern "Austria", like Graz or Laibach, would imho be a better solution than putting another City between Salzburg and Vienna.

 

[Hameigh]

On Beta 11, the AA is there the whole time, there is nothing to "not appear". Do yo have a savegame?

Here is my latest game as venice where I just finished astronomy and sent my galleon to portugal to find out which city to conquer to get the AA, but there wasn't one there. Then checked WB and didn't see any, anywhere else.

 

[3Miro]

Here is my latest game as venice where I just finished astronomy and sent my galleon to portugal to find out which city to conquer to get the AA, but there wasn't one there. Then checked WB and didn't see any, anywhere else.

Your savegame doesn't open on Beta 11. Something probably went wrong when you were installing the new Beta and you are still running on Beta 10.

Try to delete the existing mod and reinstall Beta 11.

 

[AbsintheRed]

So I brought this up before, the Swedish provinces are all wrong. Here is a map of how I think it should be. Note that Norrland extends into northern Finland, this is how it was for the entire timeline of the Mod.

I agree, it looks better this way

 

[AbsintheRed]

Spoiler :

I like many of your changes, but IMO Salzburg should be one tile east, with the salt and sulphur resources switched. Or either the sulphur or the coal removed to another city
Also, Wien's historic spot is one tile west, and it has way too many resources the way it is now

EDIT: Kartoffelvampir also made some good points. I will make a few updates to the map this weekend based on these comments

 

[Daffy]

@merijn_v1 and Caliom: note that I made some changes to the terrain and resources in Germany. I removed some of the unchopable forest in Bavaria and Saxony. You can get the updated map from the SVN.

If you want to make more changes to the Germany city names, just post another WB file. I can make you a WB file with the new terrain map if you want.

I'm curious about that map too
But.. SVN? Is that available to me?
I need more information

 

[Caliom]

I'm curious about that map too
But.. SVN? Is that available to me?
I need more information

here is a link to the svn repository
RFCEuope repository

you can download a directory by clicking on the "Download GNU tarball" link on the bottom.

here is a link if you want just the map
Map.tar

some of the changes can be seen in the frst picture in this post
Picture of bavaria

 

[3Miro]

I'm curious about that map too
But.. SVN? Is that available to me?
I need more information

You should try to use Tortoise SVN as it will download the increments only. The GNU tarball is large and you will have to redownload it every time we make changes.

 

[Daffy]

thanks

 

[Highlander_]

Hi!

I've found recent huge changes in this very interesting - provinces & adding Lithuania to fill the gap on the map were very good ideas. Thanks!

Small feedback from playing Poland and Lithuania:

1) UHV culture counter is needed (I found that somebody already posted this). Hovewer, this UHV should be changed to more accurate one.

2) Please change Polish civilization logo (shown i.e. in the F5 "Military Advisor" view), as it is not historically accurate - such crownless eagle was used only in XXth century, during soviet domination over Easter Europe, including Poland. For middle ages this would be a better one: http://bochenskie.republika.pl/postacie/pl_kw.gif. Full collection of eagles is here: http://akromer.republika.pl/orzel.html

 

[jtb1127]

Is there anything to be done about those Ottomans building huge, massive, ginormous, mega stacks of doom?

 

[rock_star]

The colonial game seems like it could use some tweaks:

Scandinavia no longer receives AA - in Beta 9, the Norse and the Dutch were the only ones to receive AA within their waters, but since Beta 10, I haven't seen the resource appear near them. If the Ottomans hold Istanbul, Russia will have an uphill battle to take the Bosporus from the massive Ottoman stacks. Holland is often an easy target (the only catch is hoping you can get the necessary open borders agreements needed for your stack to reach Holland), and sending a settler to Iceland is another easy route (since the Norse tragically never settle it), but capturing the Scandinavian AA is the best way for Russia to play for its goal, and the most historical since Peter's primary motivation in the Great Northern War was to take the Baltic coast from Sweden (since for some reason, no one seemed to want to sail around the Nordkapp to trade at Arkhangelsk - go figure).

Also, in Beta 9, everyone in the game built the trading companies whether they were advantageous or not. I haven't heard the bell toll for a trading company in the last 2 betas - the colonial game is kind of uncompetetive at the moment, since the AI scrambles to build the initial Carribean and Mesoamerican colonies, but then quits when it reaches the trading company stage, leaving all the large or exotic ones for the human player, which all but guarantees the UHV goal for the human. (Speaking of East & West trading companies . . . should these really count as colonial projects for UHV goals, or is this a bug?)

The AI also doesn't appreciate the value of AA resources. When I'm at war, a rival colonial power will pillage my fishing boats, then bombard my cities, then pillage my trade route once my cities are down to 0%. This seems fairly odd, as disrupting shipping channels and supply lines has always been a huge part of naval logistics, and not the afterthought the AI treats it as. The AI also frequently fails to protect its AA during naval warfare (the only time a ship protects it is on coincidence of using all its movement points for the turn).

The AI also trades AA away for pennies. Given the value of colonial projects, one would think the AA resource could be extorted in trade, but the AI places the same value on it as clams or honey. Civs without access resources should treat an AA offer the same way the Khmer treat an offer of iron in vanilla RFC - willing to give whatever they have to get their hands on it.

 

[3Miro]

The colonial game seems like it could use some tweaks:

Scandinavia no longer receives AA - in Beta 9, the Norse and the Dutch were the only ones to receive AA within their waters, but since Beta 10, I haven't seen the resource appear near them. If the Ottomans hold Istanbul, Russia will have an uphill battle to take the Bosporus from the massive Ottoman stacks. Holland is often an easy target (the only catch is hoping you can get the necessary open borders agreements needed for your stack to reach Holland), and sending a settler to Iceland is another easy route (since the Norse tragically never settle it), but capturing the Scandinavian AA is the best way for Russia to play for its goal, and the most historical since Peter's primary motivation in the Great Northern War was to take the Baltic coast from Sweden (since for some reason, no one seemed to want to sail around the Nordkapp to trade at Arkhangelsk - go figure).

Also, in Beta 9, everyone in the game built the trading companies whether they were advantageous or not. I haven't heard the bell toll for a trading company in the last 2 betas - the colonial game is kind of uncompetetive at the moment, since the AI scrambles to build the initial Carribean and Mesoamerican colonies, but then quits when it reaches the trading company stage, leaving all the large or exotic ones for the human player, which all but guarantees the UHV goal for the human. (Speaking of East & West trading companies . . . should these really count as colonial projects for UHV goals, or is this a bug?)

The AI also doesn't appreciate the value of AA resources. When I'm at war, a rival colonial power will pillage my fishing boats, then bombard my cities, then pillage my trade route once my cities are down to 0%. This seems fairly odd, as disrupting shipping channels and supply lines has always been a huge part of naval logistics, and not the afterthought the AI treats it as. The AI also frequently fails to protect its AA during naval warfare (the only time a ship protects it is on coincidence of using all its movement points for the turn).

The AI also trades AA away for pennies. Given the value of colonial projects, one would think the AA resource could be extorted in trade, but the AI places the same value on it as clams or honey. Civs without access resources should treat an AA offer the same way the Khmer treat an offer of iron in vanilla RFC - willing to give whatever they have to get their hands on it.

Good points.

AA is pre-set for the Dutch. AA should appear near Sweden in 1680AD.

Trading Companies now require AA, so only Colonial powers would build them. TC also don't count towards UHV anymore (future Beta).