Beta 12

[Nintz]

This is part of the 4th Crusade dynamics. If you play as a Catholic player and you get a lot of gold, then you can "buy" a Crusade, becoming the leader and sending it towards the Capital of any player. The AI will only do this as Venice -> Constantinople and Spain -> Cordoba.

Okay, in my recent game as France, which I've almost won, I've seen Venice do this twice. I also saw Genoa target Constantinople once though. Note: By now my French Empire had vassalized Venice. Does that affect the Crusade mechanic?

 

[3Miro]

Okay, in my recent game as France, which I've almost won, I've seen Venice do this twice. I also saw Genoa target Constantinople once though. Note: By now my French Empire had vassalized Venice. Does that affect the Crusade mechanic?

No. Vassalization doesn't affect the Crusader mechanics. At most you will find yourself at war with Arabia or the Byz, but other than that your Vassal would be doing all the fighting.

 

[youtien]

With the dynamic research cost now, Cluny Abbey's +1 research for all state religion buildings seems too weak. What if we change it back to +2? If overpowered, maybe we can make it +1 or 2 free scholar / scholar slot.

 

[dragodon64]

With the dynamic research cost now, Cluny Abbey's +1 research for all state religion buildings seems too weak. What if we change it back to +2? If overpowered, maybe we can make it +1 or 2 free scholar / scholar slot.

I second this.

Btw, is tech trading somehow reduced in the current version? The history reviews keep telling me that I'm the most advanced country in the world, yet I never seem to have any technologies to trade with others.

Also, will the Alpha version include a list of what provinces are solid/OK/unstable in the civilopedia? Different colored provinces bases on stability and a stability map overlay (a la SoI) would also be nice, if it isn't too much effort.

 

[AbsintheRed]

You cannot trade a tech till a given date - usually 10-20 turns after the tech is supposed to be discovered.
Btw, I think this should be changed: should be 10 turns after the first civ discovered it rather than a fix date

A stability map overlay might get in for the next version, if 3Miro has time for it.
He said it's a little harder to add it in RFCE (provinces are handled differently)

 

[dragodon64]

I think 10 turns after first discovery is better, since several techs were discovered at different times in different parts. The only potential problem is the Muslim civs trading Arabic Knowledge, but I doubt that'll happen given religious differences.

I know that flips don't happen with provinces, but what else is different?

 

[Morholt]

Speaking of which, what about tying flips to provinces? It would eliminate the need for the reference folder.

 

[ezzlar]

I thought the flips were tied to the provinces?!?

 

[Morholt]

No they are currently tied to manually defined areas which are generally rectangles.

 

[dragodon64]

Speaking of which, what about tying flips to provinces? It would eliminate the need for the reference folder.

Agreed, I think SoI's system of core provinces = flipped provinces made it very easy for newcomers (and veterans) to understand the dynamics of the game. However, I'd imagine that would take a fair bit of time to code, and there are probably more important issues to take care of for the alpha.

Still, I think linking provinces to flips would be a great addition.

 

[Morholt]

No problem to code I believe, instead of iteration over a rectangle you have iteration over a province (which is represented as a list of coordinates).

 

[Opera]

That would be so much more friendly than the current black box way of spawns.

 

[Morholt]

How is Abu Bakr a leader of Arabia in the game if he died one year before their spawn? I recommend renaming him to Harun al-Rashid or some other leader.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Actually I already considered changing him to Harun al-Rashid
He is probably a better choice for early Arabia (or at least as good), and the current art is closer the Harun than to Abu Bakr anyway

EDIT: Also, there is a new Harun al-Rashid LH announced by the Capo: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10432961&postcount=2374
He is a little overwhelmed right now, but it will be ready in a couple months tops

 

[ezzlar]

Some observations from playing Arabia:

- Seljuks and Keshiks spawn all over (Al-Quds and Dimashq)
- No sulphur near good city, only that crappy city in the desert
- Second crusade against me spawned on the turn they could attack. Usually I get a free (annihilation) hit

 

[Sian]

could the spawn issue be because it was France that spawned it? (their turn is earlier in the list than Arabia) where the units spawn in the beginning of the first player turn

 

[dragodon64]

Will the every leader have a favorite civic in the alpha?

I think that should Harald Hardrada, Mindaugas and Vytautas prefer paganism, although they seem to do a pretty good job of staying pagan even without that.

 

[AbsintheRed]

You mean the paganism civic right?
I'm not totally sure if we should give any of the leaders a fav civic which doesn't give you any real benefits (0 tier civic).
It may work more or less for the Lithuanians, because of there UP they get bonuses additionally for the civic
But for a Norse leader we should probably avoid this

 

[youtien]

Suggest for mercenary system:

In history, mercenaries are seldom reliable, if they think they can't win, they often refuse to fight. Maybe we can set: if winning chance < 60%, mercenaries will refuse to attack, unless they have extra pay or promotion. At defense, they could also flee, or even betray. This way, we can nerf mercenary-spamming strategy a bit, and make more sense.

 

[ezzlar]

could the spawn issue be because it was France that spawned it? (their turn is earlier in the list than Arabia) where the units spawn in the beginning of the first player turn

Thats correct. Is it intentional? Crusades are a lot harder when they get a first hit opportunity.