Beta 12

[MariusMR]

You don't need to change state religion even once for the third Polish UHV.

Just adopt free religion. This can be done early through the Golden Bull wonder, but in my game Spain beat me to it.

So I constructed the Catholic cathedrals and Orthodox churches in the mean time. Founded Protestantism but didn't embrace the reformation and built Protestant churches in the mean time.

So after Liberalism and Free Religion all I had to do was build the Orthodox and Protestant cathedrals.

 

[HockeySam18]

You don't need to change state religion even once for the third Polish UHV.

Just adopt free religion. This can be done early through the Golden Bull wonder, but in my game Spain beat me to it.

So I constructed the Catholic cathedrals and Orthodox churches in the mean time. Founded Protestantism but didn't embrace the reformation and built Protestant churches in the mean time.

So after Liberalism and Free Religion all I had to do was build the Orthodox and Protestant cathedrals.

Haha thanks how did I miss that? It takes a long time if you dont get Golden Bull...

 

[HockeySam18]

Seljuks in palestine really need to be toned down. Arabia consistently collapses before even losing cities to the crusade!

 

[dragodon64]

Seljuks in palestine really need to be toned down. Arabia consistently collapses before even losing cities to the crusade!

The first crusade actually targeted the Great Seljuq Empire, but a recently conquered barbarian city provides much less challenge than a Arabian city with walls and promoted crossbows/arbalests. So I guess they should be weakened in Palestine prior to the Crusades, but maybe with a second surge coming around 1130 to represent the Zengids?

Is it intentional that Poland's first UHV involves settling or conquering 12 cities in Unstable provinces? I spam manor houses and courthouses, walls and castles, and run militarism, then imperialism, yet my stability is in the toilet. This is compounded by the need to raze certain cities to make room for new ones. IMO those provinces should at least be changed to OK, especially the closer ones, like podolia, bohemia, moravia, and Upper hungary.

Podolia is already OK, although I really think that Moravia and Upper Hungary should be OK for the Polish. Also, isn't Upper Hungary more or less Slovakia? I don't know if the region was historically named after Slovaks, but Upper Hungary strikes me as a bit of an artificial name.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Slovakia is a very modern term.
I found some troubles naming that province, the only thing that I found statisfying enough is that in hungarian it was Felvidék for the biggest part on the timeline of the mod.
Felvidék more or less translates to Upper Count(r)y/Territory, that's why I named the province Upper Hungary.

 

[Sian]

Nitrava prehaps? ... at least the parts roughly corrosponding to presentday Slovakia

 

[3Miro]

Anyone can get any historical reference for the ferocious Serbian Lions, I hear the are quite valuable as mercenaries and quite worth the cost.

I am not at the stage of replacing the old interface with the new merc mechanics.

 

[HockeySam18]

The first crusade actually targeted the Great Seljuq Empire, but a recently conquered barbarian city provides much less challenge than a Arabian city with walls and promoted crossbows/arbalests. So I guess they should be weakened in Palestine prior to the Crusades, but maybe with a second surge coming around 1130 to represent the Zengids?

Touche, but I must disagree with any Seljuk presence in Palestine because:

-They raze most of the cities

-As you said, the cities are weaker and too easy to take with the Crusader SoD

-Arabia collapses and does not respawn until circa 1200 (eliminates challenge of holding city)

-Were the Seljuks a playable civ, I would not object, but barbarians take a city, keep 2 guys in it, and the city stagnates. In other words, barbarians do not act as a collective civ, but as independents with no desire to improve cities, which is not good for gameplay.

 

[charals]

Hi first post.

First of all thanx a lot for all the work you guys have put on in this mod.

So i would like to make some suggestions for the byzantine area.I think cyrene and alepo souldnt belong to the byzantines and instead there should be one or two more cities in the "center" of the empire to fill it a little more.( i know its hard to fill such a big empire when there is noone around...)

Also about resources there shouldnt be silk in the allepo area and there should be one around corinth.(it was the main center for silk production and its capture by the normans really destroyed the byzantine economy)Also there should be one food resource near tarsus,since the cilician plain is one of the more fertile lands in the world.And the iron should be removed from near athens and be turned into a marble resource.

Sorry if i ask too much and again thanx for all the great work.

 

[3Miro]

Hi first post.

First of all thanx a lot for all the work you guys have put on in this mod.

So i would like to make some suggestions for the byzantine area.I think cyrene and alepo souldnt belong to the byzantines and instead there should be one or two more cities in the "center" of the empire to fill it a little more.( i know its hard to fill such a big empire when there is noone around...)

Also about resources there shouldnt be silk in the allepo area and there should be one around corinth.(it was the main center for silk production and its capture by the normans really destroyed the byzantine economy)Also there should be one food resource near tarsus,since the cilician plain is one of the more fertile lands in the world.And the iron should be removed from near athens and be turned into a marble resource.

Sorry if i ask too much and again thanx for all the great work.

Welcome to the mod.

The Byz a particularly hard to implement, as giving them such a large Empire early on is hard to balance.

Why wouldn't you think that Aleppo and Cyrene should belong to the Justinian Empire in the early 500s?

Good point for the silk, however, we already have "exotic" resources in the Middle East and adding any more would change the balance (especially if we add more in Peloponnese). I will think about it.

The Food near tarsus and Iron near Athens sound like a good idea.

 

[charals]

Well they both were geographically in the empire(especialy cyrene was a greek colony to begin with) but as you said its hard to balance such a big empire.So many cities should be left out like south italy,north balkans(justinians birthplace),crimea etc.So i just say that i find it more natural if greece and anatolia are a bit more filled than looking at the map and seeing three cities in the east so close,while there are such big gaps elsewhere.Also they are not good cities and especially removing aleppo would let you move antioch a little so tarsus and atnioch could become more like the important cities they were in reality.

About the silk i think it shouldnt be in the middle east at all.The byzantines were the only ones who really had any production before the norman invasion of the peloponese and it was in corinth and a couple other places.Also losing aleppo will deprive them of these resources,which didnt happen till the fourth crusade.(loosing the dominance in silk trade)Also it will be easy for the italian cities to get silk.

Also if i may add a last thing.I think maybe the cities in anatolia should be moved a little like a plot each so that they fill it a bit better.Anyway thanx a lot.

 

[HockeySam18]

Hi first post.

First of all thanx a lot for all the work you guys have put on in this mod.

So i would like to make some suggestions for the byzantine area.I think cyrene and alepo souldnt belong to the byzantines and instead there should be one or two more cities in the "center" of the empire to fill it a little more.( i know its hard to fill such a big empire when there is noone around...)

Also about resources there shouldnt be silk in the allepo area and there should be one around corinth.(it was the main center for silk production and its capture by the normans really destroyed the byzantine economy)Also there should be one food resource near tarsus,since the cilician plain is one of the more fertile lands in the world.And the iron should be removed from near athens and be turned into a marble resource. Sorry if i ask too much and again thanx for all the great work.

First off, welcome.

You have some good suggestions for resource placement. However, as 3miro said, balancing the Byz is especially important and difficult, because of their starting situation, teching potential, and the adversity they face throughout the game. All that said, those ideas do not seem too unbalancing. If you want to test it, generate a start as the Byz and add the resources through the worldbuilder, then test it and post a savegame.

However, the Byz had Cyrene, Aleppo, and Jerusalem in real history, so I disagree with this.

 

[3Miro]

A resource placed on the map doesn't necessarily mean "production". Some of the resources around the edge of the map represent trade with territories beyond the edge of the map. Having some silk to represent the trade with China is good (however we should also consider the balance issues of having an extra resource).

For the map changes, Aleppo should star, although we can move it around a bit.

You can start a game with the Byz and BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, go into the World Builder mod and make the changes that you want. Then you can post the World Builder file. We may not agree with all the changes, but it would be easier to see what we all mean.

 

[charals]

Yes sure i have allready started doing stuff in the world builder about resources and cities.And about that one question.Should i erase cities and build the new ones in the world builder or should i make settlers build them this way and then go on the world builder and add buildings names etc?I will probably make another grass tile in cilicia and add the second river maybe moving tarsus one tile.

About the silk i understand that some resources represent the trade with the rest of the world.But since the byzantines are the only ones who hold aleppo for some time(arabs rarely hold that part in my experience) they are the only ones who can benefit from that.Btw the overland silk trade with china through the silk road became of minor importance since the byzantines got their hands on their own silk,and also even this little trade always remained accesible to the byzantines.Maybe there could be something like a colony project like north america for vikings called the silk road.( i only make suggestions i know you allready have a lot on your hands )

 

[AbsintheRed]

Well they both were geographically in the empire(especialy cyrene was a greek colony to begin with) but as you said its hard to balance such a big empire.So many cities should be left out like south italy,north balkans(justinians birthplace),crimea etc.So i just say that i find it more natural if greece and anatolia are a bit more filled than looking at the map and seeing three cities in the east so close,while there are such big gaps elsewhere.Also they are not good cities and especially removing aleppo would let you move antioch a little so tarsus and atnioch could become more like the important cities they were in reality.

About the silk i think it shouldnt be in the middle east at all.The byzantines were the only ones who really had any production before the norman invasion of the peloponese and it was in corinth and a couple other places.Also losing aleppo will deprive them of these resources,which didnt happen till the fourth crusade.(loosing the dominance in silk trade)Also it will be easy for the italian cities to get silk.

Also if i may add a last thing.I think maybe the cities in anatolia should be moved a little like a plot each so that they fill it a bit better.Anyway thanx a lot.

A resource placed on the map doesn't necessarily mean "production". Some of the resources around the edge of the map represent trade with territories beyond the edge of the map. Having some silk to represent the trade with China is good (however we should also consider the balance issues of having an extra resource).

For the map changes, Aleppo should star, although we can move it around a bit.

You can start a game with the Byz and BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, go into the World Builder mod and make the changes that you want. Then you can post the World Builder file. We may not agree with all the changes, but it would be easier to see what we all mean.

A possible solution might be, if we add that Silk around Corinth, and all those other resources (Silk Road resources) only appear later on the map, somewhere around 1200 maybe?

 

[3Miro]

A possible solution might be, if we add that Silk around Corinth, and all those other resources (Silk Road resources) only appear later on the map, somewhere around 1200 maybe?

The "Silk Road Colony" is called the Marco Polo Embassy, it is just that it is not a Colony Project.

Aleppo was held by the Crusaders for quite some time.

No silk around Aleppo is fine, we just have to think about the one near Corinth as it might change the balance of the Byz and Bulgaria.

charals: build the cities from the world builder, when editing the WB file, you shouldn't be actually playing the game.

 

[MariusMR]

Doesn't the Marco Polo Embassy wonder already represent the Silk Road dynamic?

 

[Ogi123]

So, after more than two months of suffering from disease known as Real Life, and don't having time to play civ I finally have some free time...
Downloaded new beta12 and played as Vikings and Poland, first were sufficiently discussed, therefore I will concentrate on second.
1.) I still think that starting location should be 1 title NE (Gniezno), it more historical and gives bit more breathing place for westward expansion... or for German eastward one.
2). Resources are in need of some reorganisation (new rivers) so I tweaked somewhat they placement:
- moved cow west, so it can benefit more possible cities, perhaps somebody will found some city on moorland coast now?
-replaced gems with amber, gems were place-holder resource from what I remember.
-moved honey 1 SW so Wroclaw or other cities can benefit from it.
-added honey around Warsaw so there is any food resource here.
-added timber in deep forest around Poznan.
-moved wheat from around Krakow to Lwow, Krakow is to powerful and there is not single any resource in Galicia right now so I also added deer and timber here.
3)Provinces in Commonwealth UHV should be OK stability, not unstable.

On other things, I still think that 4 archery units it's too much. They obsolete too fast, and seeing non English longbows is just painful. Compare that to pole-arms line which has only 3 units and last longer (pike&shoot). Perhaps removing longbow, and spacing units more on tech tree? Also light cavalry, don't you think that mounted sergeant - pistolier is bit too large gap?

 

[trexeric]

I'm having trouble downloading this. I have extracted the RFCEurope file to the Documents/My Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword/MODS and it shows up in the game in the 'Upload a Mod' section. When I click that, it directs me to my desktop and absolutely nothing happened. Then I realized that I may have to put it into the Local Disk (C/Program Files/2KGames/Firaxis Games/ Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete/Beyond the Sword/Mods. I try to extract it there, but it apparently can't open output files of the CvGameCoreDLL.dll, RFCE.Ink, and RFCEurope Forum.url. Please help!

(BTW, if you see (C it really means (C: ) (but without the space)

 

[3Miro]

I'm having trouble downloading this. I have extracted the RFCEurope file to the Documents/My Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword/MODS and it shows up in the game in the 'Upload a Mod' section. When I click that, it directs me to my desktop and absolutely nothing happened. Then I realized that I may have to put it into the Local Disk (C/Program Files/2KGames/Firaxis Games/ Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete/Beyond the Sword/Mods. I try to extract it there, but it apparently can't open output files of the CvGameCoreDLL.dll, RFCE.Ink, and RFCEurope Forum.url. Please help!

(BTW, if you see (C it really means (C: ) (but without the space)

Can you not just get the folder from My Documents and put it in C:/..../Mods

You should have it in only one place, not both. It should work with C:/... I am not sure about the My Documents folder.