Beta 13

[Nolan08]

Three things I think need to be balanced:

1. Units are too cheap to maintain. It required many peasants to feed and armor a knight or maceman, they didnt have the productivity back in the days.
2. Economy is far too good. Nerf banks as a start and the cash generating wonders.
3. Happiness is way too abundant. I had a few suggestions a while back in the main feedback thread. Anyone actually have to use the culture slider? Ever?

I don't really agree with nerfing the banks, because historically they were a HUGE engine for wealth creation. Especially initially (not so much in 2008)

I do think that maybe some of the cash generating wonders or other cash generating buildings (such as the market or others) could be nerfed.

 

[rrosen]

Fun reading!

But how come that more cities didnt flip to your low stability?

As far as I understand it, it is due to a special power the Byzantine have when holding Constantinople.

 

[rrosen]

Three things I think need to be balanced:

1. Units are too cheap to maintain. It required many peasants to feed and armor a knight or maceman, they didnt have the productivity back in the days.
2. Economy is far too good. Nerf banks as a start and the cash generating wonders.
3. Happiness is way too abundant. I had a few suggestions a while back in the main feedback thread. Anyone actually have to use the culture slider? Ever?

I think the current work being made on mercenaries is promising for point 1 & 2. At least in my Byzantine game, I constantly checked for new mercenaries (as the notification system was bugged for me). The mercenaries provided critical high tech hard hitting units, and also added flavor (Tagmata, Varangians). It also fits very nicely with the enormous importance mercenaries held in medieval times, before the rise of standing armies.

I agree on point 3.

 

[ezzlar]

As far as I understand it, it is due to a special power the Byzantine have when holding Constantinople.

Yes, but the special power only applies to the core are which is the Greece area (and west coast of Anatolia?)? Or has this been changed?

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yes, but the special power only applies to the core are which is the Greece area (and west coast of Anatolia?)? Or has this been changed?

Yeah, there is probalby a bug in there
Not sure when it was introduced

 

[rrosen]

Aww, so this option is for a limited time only? It provided a unique challenge compared to other civilizations - no need to worry about stability, but instead more barbarians and emerging other civilizations.

 

[ezzlar]

It is actually an interesting concept, how would the Byzantine empire be if it actually had that power?

 

[3Miro]

Cities flip to you based upon Culture and right now the Barbs do not generate culture (something that maybe we should change). Cities declare independence based upon Stability (in the case of the Byz, you have to keep Constantinople and then you cannot lose cities in your core).

Crusades are at least 6 turns apart (from a vote to a vote) and happen only if Jerusalem is Barb, Independent, Muslim or Jewish. How was the last Spanish UHV, it is supposed to be the hardest one?

We should probably also spawn different starting units depending on whether the player is human or AI since AI Spain does need the extra units.

 

[BSPollux]

The last one was very easy because the AI allows you to bribe it for a change of state religion and Spain gets incredibly rich.

 

[BSPollux]

Oh and about the crusades:
Vote
2turns till crusade starts
1 turn fighting
1 turn holding J
next turn gifting it to france
next vote.

Yes, seems to be correct

I'd guess that the gifting while it was still in unrest somehow triggered it

 

[Nintz]

Starting a Imperial Genoa game on Beta 13 (SVN won't download for me due to my internet)

I can safely say that this is going to be a long (and difficult) game.

I opened the game by settling Oristano on Sardinia, and Regio at the tip of Italy.
Oristano might have been a mistake, but at least it helps with stability.

My initial stack headed towards Firenze...also a mistake. It was killed off.

Luckily, I was able to trade my way up the tech ladder very fast.

Once I got longswords, I sent a few towards Firenze, then Mediolanum. While it took far longer than I would have liked, it did work.

I also managed to found Valletta (Malta). I passed Corsica, but will probably come back to it.

So far, the only break I got was a corrupt crusade I sent at Roskilde. The Norse were pagans still.

---Balance Issues---

Production. Genoa's production is terrible early on. If you spam engineer specialists late game, it becomes infinetly better, but that dosen't work at size 3.

Commerce. Don't know why, but my commerce is through the roof. I don't really have that many towns, and I cant seem to find commerce resources.

Mediolanum Flip. Probably been suggested before, but could you have Mediolanum flip on spawn? It seems strange that not even a full province flips to Genoa.

---AI---

Kievan Rus'- In this game, Kievan Rus' went Catholic warmongerer. They took out Bulgaria . First time I ever saw that.

Venice- Didn't notice the stack o' glitch in this game, but I did see Venice found Durrazzo and conquer Belgrad. They also founded La Canea and conquered that African city right below it. More than in the last game I played.

Cordoba- Usual collapse post-Portugal.

Portugal- Did okay due to survival of Cordoba (through D. Crusade)

Spain- Still OPd

Byzantium- Still alive and doing quite well. They did lose about half of Anatolia.

Arabia- Nonstop crusades collapsed this civ twice already.

France- Founded both the Teutonic and Templar knights for some reason...
Other that that, OPd. They conquered a collapsed Burgundy.

England- Standard game here.

Burgundy- Led 5? crusades. Kept losing Jerusalem.

Germany- Not OPd in this game. Huh.

Poland- Didn't collapse, doing quite well.

Lithuania- Just spawned.

Hungary- Pretty much standard here.

 

[BSPollux]

@Nintz:
"Arabia- Nonstop crusades collapsed this civ twice already."

As I'm playing this right now, I'm quite sure the crusades are not the problem. Its that strange barbarian horde that spawns 5-10 knights per turn that brakes theire neck!
Planing ahead is not realy the AIs strenght, and switching from peace to the worst war ever... not realy

 

[Sian]

convince the Arab AI that it have to spam troops as if it was Monty, and have walls and Castles as high (if not highest) prioity)

 

[3Miro]

convince the Arab AI that it have to spam troops as if it was Monty, and have walls and Castles as high (if not highest) prioity)

Why? Crusaders and Seljuks are supposed to collapse Arabia. This is historically accurate. Every now and then Arabia does survive, but it is a rare occurrence.

 

[Nintz]

Well, I realize that barbarians probably contributed to the collapsing.

But there were around six crusades targeted at Jerusalem. That couldn't have helped Arabia.

 

[Morholt]

Unless I'm reading the code wrong, there can never be more than five "offensive" crusades.

However, there is currently no last date for crusades. If there are less than five crusades and Jerusalem then becomes captured, there are more crusades "stored up". Then if Jerusalem is captured by a Muslim in 1750AD, the pope declares a crusade!

Shouldn't there be a last date for offensive crusades? Mid-13th century?

 

[3Miro]

Unless I'm reading the code wrong, there can never be more than five "offensive" crusades.

However, there is currently no last date for crusades. If there are less than five crusades and Jerusalem then becomes captured, there are more crusades "stored up". Then if Jerusalem is captured by a Muslim in 1750AD, the pope declares a crusade!

Shouldn't there be a last date for offensive crusades? Mid-13th century?

The Reformation stops all Offensive Crusades. The Defensive Ones are still on.

 

[3Miro]

Did we increase the Byzantine Barbs in recent SVN. I just started a game with the Ottomans and the entire Byz Empire was conquered by barbs (mostly Mongols and couple of Seljuks).

 

[The Flame8]

Why do you not receive a +1 friend bonus with other catholics? Everyone is just ticked off at you even though you're both catholic (only Pope gets religion +4)

 

[Alexius08]

Just downloaded Beta 13 of the mod and launched the game through clicking on the game's worldbuilder save file. For some weird reason, I don't see any menu.