Beta 13

I'm getting suicidal with this map..just when I thought it was good enough, I discovered a bunch of misaligned parts :( , then I coulnd't reproduce the same zoom I did before (as I messed with the xmls - the default zooms of the map are from an angle and thus are useless to make a concatenated screenshot map).

Anyone care and can explain to me *in detail* (that is, about all of numbers) what these things do (as I didn't find good info on the net yet):

<Name>DF_DETAIL</Name>
<Key>700, 0.00</Key>
<Key>750, 1.00</Key>

<Name>DF_SKY</Name>
<!-- Rhye - start -->
<Key>8000, 0.00</Key>
<Key>8000, 1.0</Key>
<Key>%CAMERA_MAX_DISTANCE, 1.00</Key>

<Name>DF_GLOBE_TERRAIN</Name>
<Key>7000, 0.00</Key>
<Key>7400, 1.00</Key>

<Name>DF_GLOBE_MORPH</Name>
<Key>7400, 0.00</Key>
<Key>%CAMERA_MAX_DISTANCE*0.97, 1.00</Key>
 
On another track ... been trying a couple of times getting French to work, but i simply can't handle UHV1, sending big enough armies SW, E and SE to capture everything needed, specially not now that Mounted Sargents are worthless against cities, at the same time as building the needed ammount of settlers and defending the NE against waves of Saxon Barbs ... whats the trick i'm failing to spot?

I failed the first time I tried but managed to do it the second time. No special trick involved but there are some important points.

1. A bit of luck, obviously in combat but especially no independent cities razed by barbs and

2. Be fast, even if MS are nerfed against cities they are still good enough and the only way to conquer fast enough. Get the independents before they are entrenched and upgraded.

3 Study the map and plan ahead, you should only need 2 - 3 settlers, make sure they are ready and on the spot, Lorraine and another one, when the deadline comes. All other provinces will have indie cities. Some provinces might lack a city - for example Milano - the first time you visit but they will spawn later.

4 The MS nerf is compensated by the fact that your cities are now more easy to defend against barbarian horse archers.
 
that sounds then like its been overtuned from to easy, to to hard ... no UHV should be based on how lucky you are (within reasonable RNG behavour)

1 more Settler and 1 more Missionary should do the trick i believe, giving them 3 cities to crank out settlers and units with
 
I failed the first time I tried but managed to do it the second time. No special trick involved but there are some important points.

1. A bit of luck, obviously in combat but especially no independent cities razed by barbs and

2. Be fast, even if MS are nerfed against cities they are still good enough and the only way to conquer fast enough. Get the independents before they are entrenched and upgraded.

3 Study the map and plan ahead, you should only need 2 - 3 settlers, make sure they are ready and on the spot, Lorraine and another one, when the deadline comes. All other provinces will have indie cities. Some provinces might lack a city - for example Milano - the first time you visit but they will spawn later.

4 The MS nerf is compensated by the fact that your cities are now more easy to defend against barbarian horse archers.

You also have to maximize your free barbarian wins. For example, find an Archer that is on a hill, in a forest and on the other side of a river. With really impossible odds you can upgrade your units to City Raider 2 or 3 with one battle (of which you get 5 IIRC. Hint, don't upgrade, don't heal, and attack yet another time. CR 3 next turn for granted), who after that battle should aim for independent archers. Especially with CR 3 the odds turn in your favor.
 
Well, first I want to say this is a great and very fun mod, but I do have a few question: is the French game supposed to become so hard around 1300 or did I just get unlucky? I have a plague decimating my lands, I have the Germans and Burgundians popping back up in my lands, and the Austrians at war with me with a giant army considering their whopping two cities. Then Spain declares war on me and marches a freaking huge army with seventeen knights and twelve bombards as well as various other units. The bombards always withdraw successfully, so I assume they're quite upgraded and it would follow suit that their other units are, too. The fact they declared war on me also makes no sense. Not only were we great friends before, but I am an established military power. In fact, if I didn't have the plague decimating my garrisons, I would have the military might to defeat them.

Two: Why are so many random wars declared? As Bulgaria I had both Venice and Genoa declare war on me despite our positive relations. Venice sent a single galley with no troops at me and Genoa didn't even do that. Then they both offered me gold for a peace treaty. The Spain situations also makes no sense. The only reason I can see for that is that I was involved in another war.

Three: Are civilizations supposed to collapse so easily from war? All my wars that have actually finished and gone farther than the Venice/Genoa ones have ended with the other civilization collapsing. As Bulgaria I pushed the Byzantines and Arabians to collapse and as the French I have pushed the Burgundians, Germans, Cordobans, and Genoans to collapse. It seems like any war in which there is a clear winner and loser leads to the loser's collapse.
 
Great job again guys.

I think it would be nice if you added an east asia access in the erytrean sea.This way the ottomans will be able to "play a role" in that region like they did irl with their competition with the portugese.

Also i i think that the barbs against the byzantines in the beggining are a bit overwelming.I have no problem with the seljuks even if they get more powerfull because by then i am able to prepare my defenses but in the beggining if i am unlucky i stand no chance to defend my cities.I know its acourate for the byzantines to have big problems with barbs but it makes the game very unpleasant in the beggining.
 
Great job again guys.

I think it would be nice if you added an east asia access in the erytrean sea.This way the ottomans will be able to "play a role" in that region like they did irl with their competition with the portugese.

Also i i think that the barbs against the byzantines in the beggining are a bit overwelming.I have no problem with the seljuks even if they get more powerfull because by then i am able to prepare my defenses but in the beggining if i am unlucky i stand no chance to defend my cities.I know its acourate for the byzantines to have big problems with barbs but it makes the game very unpleasant in the beggining.

I agree with both your suggestions!

With the new feature of not wiping newly spawns mean that stability problems will get worse for Byzantium since both Bulgaria and Arabia will spawn nations you cant conquer at once because of the stability penalty.

And since early mercs are unavailable aggression from early barbs it gets even harder.
 
Great job again guys.

I think it would be nice if you added an east asia access in the erytrean sea.This way the ottomans will be able to "play a role" in that region like they did irl with their competition with the portugese.

Also i i think that the barbs against the byzantines in the beggining are a bit overwelming.I have no problem with the seljuks even if they get more powerfull because by then i am able to prepare my defenses but in the beggining if i am unlucky i stand no chance to defend my cities.I know its acourate for the byzantines to have big problems with barbs but it makes the game very unpleasant in the beggining.

I agree with both your suggestions!

With the new feature of not wiping newly spawns mean that stability problems will get worse for Byzantium since both Bulgaria and Arabia will spawn nations you cant conquer at once because of the stability penalty.

And since early mercs are unavailable aggression from early barbs it gets even harder.

Accesses on the eastern border of the map was already discussed before, and we decided against them.
I don't think colonization of China or Malaysia suits the Ottomans too well.
In a few ahistorical situations where they get an Atlantic Access I'm fine with it, but this way they would grab a couple of these provinces in every other game, and I think we should avoid this

You are right on the Sassanid barbarians, they are too hard for a undeveloped Byzantium currently. Will reduce them
 
Someone mentioned earlier - I add to it : I've seen a merc with level1 0/0 exp
and Woodsman 2 (and no woodsman 1).

It's a bug in the new mercenary system, AFAIK 3Miro is already working on it
 
that sounds then like its been overtuned from to easy, to to hard ... no UHV should be based on how lucky you are (within reasonable RNG behavour)

1 more Settler and 1 more Missionary should do the trick i believe, giving them 3 cities to crank out settlers and units with

The french first UHV is hard, but it is intentional
It can be achieved without any real luck at about 80-90% of the games, so I don't really want to make huge changes there
But I'm not against smaller changes if you guys think it's needed
Maybe another starting unit (archer or axeman) is a good idea?
 
something have to be done in my book ... not to much no, but IMO its slightly overtuned now ... i believe the best thing would be either

1. 1 Extra settler
2. slightly weaker defended independents (Burgondy/Province area)
3. Removing the need to settle Picardy
4. +1 axe, +1Archer
5. + either Theocracy, Calender or Manoralism
6. +3h on Chethau, instead of +2h, or making them slightly cheaper
7. +1 worker after a couple of turns (or hand out a couple of captureable workers in the assorted cities they have to capture)
 
One of the most epic moments I've seen in my games. Never seen this before. This happened in a game where Cordoba quickly took over Portugal, but besides these things nothing strange happened so far.
 

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Wow! This belongs to another thread!

P.S. Maybe its a time to update your signature? :D
 
something have to be done in my book ... not to much no, but IMO its slightly overtuned now ... i believe the best thing would be either

1. 1 Extra settler
2. slightly weaker defended independents (Burgondy/Province area)
3. Removing the need to settle Picardy
4. +1 axe, +1Archer
5. + either Theocracy, Calender or Manoralism
6. +3h on Chethau, instead of +2h, or making them slightly cheaper
7. +1 worker after a couple of turns (or hand out a couple of captureable workers in the assorted cities they have to capture)

Adding a couple capturable workers in the surrounding cities is a good idea
For now I will add that, and another starting unit
Can you guys test it when these new changes are up on the svn?

One of the most epic moments I've seen in my games. Never seen this before. This happened in a game where Cordoba quickly took over Portugal, but besides these things nothing strange happened so far.

Looks awesome :D
 
General Feedback:

I was attempting a Colonial Bulgaria for this game. I am only 1/3-1/2 of the way through, but I have some feedback to give on the AI and Bulgaria's balance.

AI-

France appears to be stronger in this version of Beta. They are expanding more aggresively, and seem to be holding off the English invasion quite capably.

Cordoba appears to always conquer Portugal in this new version. I like that Cordoba is stronger (they needed it) but it would appear Portugal wasn't scaled to compensate.

Germany is even more OPd in this one, if that's possible. They always expand fast and hard. They often get chosen to lead crusades as well, which just increases their powers.

I found an interesting Venice bug that caused around 8 of their units (including a settler) to get stuck a couple tiles away from Ragusa. I observed it for multiple turns, and the stack just sat there.

Genoa is too weak. Not sure if it's intended, but they always are stuck with the same exact cities. Milan, Zena, one on Corsica, and one on Sardinia. They often are at war with Burgundy, but never manage to conquer anything.

Bulgaria Feedback-

Italian diplomacy. Both Venice and Genoa randomly declared war on me a few turns after I met them. I did own Constantinople, could that have affected it?

2nd UHV. I have no clue how to get this one. It says you need 100 faith points. I managed to get 55-60 due to Hagia Sophia+ multiple Great Prophets. I also built the Round Church. While the benefits are nice, how am I supposed to get 100 for the goal?

Konnik. Very nice UU. Your initial stack can take Contantinople due to its small garrison. The only issue with them is that they are rather expensive for their time frame, but that might be intentional.

Stability Map. I would suggest making Moldova/Crimea areas OK on stability. According to the pre-load pop-up, the Bulgarians are from that direction. It would make sense to have those areas as OK, wouldn't it?

I will try to post more after I finish the game.
 
UHV2 is done by spamming Ortodox buildings (as many as possible as early as possible, which mean early Music), not taking serfdom (the -33% GP hurts to much) and hammering out as many Great Priests as possible (Constantinople is a good place)
 
Cordoba appears to always conquer Portugal in this new version. I like that Cordoba is stronger (they needed it) but it would appear Portugal wasn't scaled to compensate.
Hm, that's interesting. Every game I've played has resulted in Cordoba collapsing after losing just a couple cities, Spain mopping it up, then Cordoba popping up a couple hundred years later in Tunis, where they tend to become Catholic, before collapsing after another few hundred years. Portugal seems to always get vassalized by Spain but have a relatively high score
Germany is even more OPd in this one, if that's possible. They always expand fast and hard. They often get chosen to lead crusades as well, which just increases their powers.
True, when I'm not one of the Catholics (specifically France, since that lets me weaken Germany easily) Germany almost always leads the crusades. I've seen Poland do it, too, though.
Genoa is too weak. Not sure if it's intended, but they always are stuck with the same exact cities. Milan, Zena, one on Corsica, and one on Sardinia. They often are at war with Burgundy, but never manage to conquer anything.
I find Burgundy collapses too early for this to happen, but yeah Genoa never goes anywhere.
Italian diplomacy. Both Venice and Genoa randomly declared war on me a few turns after I met them. I did own Constantinople, could that have affected it?
I experienced the same thing, and after those two wars all I had seen of them was a single boat. They didn't even accomplish anything.
 
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