"Beta" Massive WW2 scenario

[Rocoteh]

"rocoteh and meateater -
regarding troop size, i have always found it a drawback that unit health and regular / veteran / elite are the only measure of training and morale a unit has." Sinatra

Sinatra,

There are(were) computer-wargames where you can set:
Morale, Troop Quality, Tried-Untried and so on.

It would be great to have such features in the
CIVIII game-engine, however I doubt we will see it.

Nearly all strategy-games producers that have
invested in complex games are out of business!

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Meateater]

Rocoteh
Thank's for the plane stats you posted. I am still doing more research on overall military stats myself and is taking more time than I thought but that's ok I want to get it as correct as possible.

Sinatra
About the Conquest versions of the scenario needed to be put in the PTW folder has to do with me using a mod from PTW with this scenario. As for not posting the units from Conquest, well that is a NO NO. So having you copy them from your own Conquest folders will save me a letter in the mail telling me I have a lawsuit.
I think I can make it even easier to install this scenario, so all you would have to do is copy 5 or 6 unit folders from Conquest and paste them in to another folder.

Yes there are limits to what level of training a unit can be given, but then again for some units you have the defensive/offensive terrain bonus, and then you kinda have what you were talking about with the random combat generator. That spearman is having a great day when he destroys a tank.
I was doing some tests a while ago and even with a stat difference of like 50 points in the offence and defense strengths of two unit, and on the same terrain. The unit with say 75 attack and a unit with 10 defense, the attacker wouldn't always win.

 

[EPL]

Hi meateater,

While you can't post units from conquests, the ones from PTW have been released and the last time I looked they were being posted here somewhere on this site for download.
You'd need to check but I suspect that it would be ok to include them in a scenario

 

[Meateater]

EPL
Thanks for the info. Yeah I know some people will make some copies of the Conquest units too for others to download.

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

I have just downloaded your new version:
WW2 The World.

There are 2 problems: I think I followed your
install instructions correct, still after 90 minutes
of loading, the load disappeared and it did go
back to Windows again.

When I open the .biq-file with the editor I can
only see U.S. naval units.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Meateater]

Yeah I made a new update. All that has been done so far is I have started placing the US navy on the map. I am going to do one country at a time starting with the Unites States.

Do a quick test for me Rocoteh, try only loading the United States and one other civ with the new version. It should load in a minute or two. If it works with the two civs then you got it installed ok.

How many civs were you trying to load when it crashes?

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

I just made test with U.S. +1 Civ. 60 minutes of load then
it goes back to Windows. Earlier tests: All Civ:s, 90 minutes
of load then back to Windows. 5 Civ:s, 7 minutes of load
then back to Windows.

An advise: When I worked with my own personsal mod
I had search path linked to DyP. Then there was a patch
with a new version of DyP. My personal mod then crashed
due to the search path and I had to allocate many hours
to make it work again.

To the point:
If you create your own folder and cuts the current search-path
linked to Teturkhan you can avoid the above if/when
TeTurkhan launch a new version.

Then as you know I have often called your scenario
"The next years winner". I still do but the install instructions
are not user-friendly.

You can avoid all this by cutting the link to Teturkhan and
create your own folder.


Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Meateater]

Lets do a check real quick

The new ww2 TheWorld folder should go in the PTW extras folder

Unzip and put the scenario in the PTW scenarios folder

Copy Civilpedia and Pediaicons files from ww2 TheWorld new text folder to the TETurkhan text folder (all I added to the civilpedia and pediaicons was the entries for the new units so it should have no affect on TETurkhan)

Copy the the unit folders of the same name from Conquest that are in the ww2 TheWorld units folder.

The thing is I am using units/art from both PTW and Conquest. From what I have seen you can't have a search path to get unit/art from both of the expansion packs in the same scenario. So if I move the scenario in to the Conquest folders then I would only be able to use Conquset stuff unless I move it as well into the Conquset folders.

I will see what I can do to make it easier to install. I just don't have that much know how when it comes to making complete mods. But looks like it is time to learn something new.

I updated the Marines, Army and Airforce for the United States and am getting close to finishing placement for their military.

I also took down the lates updated version of this scenario that was up for download.

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

I will move some folders around and then try a new
search-path. I think that will do the install more user-friendly.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Meateater]

I found out how to do it last night, all I have to do now is make the civilpedia and pediaicons changes.
I was having a problem with the import of the old scenario. The thing that was making it crash was the old difficulty setting. I finally found that out by importing one thing at a time untill I imported the difficulty settings and tested then it would crash.

How I have it now is that you will install the WW2 folder from the download in to the Civ 3\Conquest\Conquest folder with the other Conquest scenarios folders, then all you need to do is copy 3 unit art folders in to another folder and thats it. ( The WW2 units folder from PTW/TETurkhan and the WW2 units folder from Conquest)

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

That sounds very good.

BTW, I looked at the US Navy units.

I am impressed. If you continue like this, your scenario
will be most well-researched ever done.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Meateater]

Yup I just got the updated version up for download.

It should be installed into your Conquest\Conquest folder and is plays like other Conquest when selecting a game.

You will need to copy and paste 4 folders, 3 unit folders and a recourse folder, and put the scenario in to the Conquest folder and thats it.


Rocoteh glad you like the ships I hope most of them are in the correct locations, and same with the names and groupings. Can you check the navy out again from this version in game and tell me what may be out of place and missing(BB, CA, CL don't worry about transports and what not). I know there were more navy ships but they were not active it showed.

What I have placed
SS-61
DD-90
BB-16
CV-6
CL-18
CA-19

I have most of the United States military located but still need a few things. Then I would like to get that country approved before starting on the next.
Not sure what country it will be I was thinking you (Rocoteh) would pick it.

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

I have just downloaded the new version, and will
be back with comments later on.

With regard to next country I think Germany would
be best.


Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

After closing the ACW-book for ever, I must admit
that I am in a sad mode rigth now, however life
goes on and I have very positive news.

The scenario loads without problems. If you choose
US and one more CIV it loads within 2 seconds.

With regard to OOB, I have checked with my sources
and your OOB seems to be 100% correct.

2 Battleships are unnamed, I think it should be:
Oklahoma and Tennesse.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

I have just downloaded the new version.

I repeat: I am impressed. You seldom see such
much research time invested in a scenario.

I will try to back you up as much as I can.
If you proceed with this, no scenario will be able
to challange yours with regard to historical value.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Meateater]

Thanks Rocoteh
Sorry to here you about ACW

I must have missed those two battleships when I was making a copy from 4.3C. I have the names in now, yup those were the ship names Oklahoma and Tennesse.

I am glad to hear that the scenario works, it was much easier to do than I thought it would be. It took some time to understand what needed to be in what folders and how the program works. But I feel better just knowing how to do it.

Germany sounds good for the next country once this ones done. I decided to do the U.S. first because they have no OOBs for them in 1939. Most other countries do have OOBs since they were at war with someone.

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

Yes, ACW was a sad thing, but as I said before
I have now closed that book for ever, and I intend
to do other things.

Have you any target date for the next version?

Again your OOB is very accurate. Due to WWI (the mass-slaughter) United Kingdom had a small Army 1939, I
hope you will reflect that.

Creating accurate OOB:s for WWII is much more time-consuming
than OOB:s for WWIII. I am still work with my WWIII scenario
now and then and since I own the The Military Balance from
IISS (it have a high price tag though) you can work with that
as the only source, so high is the quality.

I a looking forward to hear about how your work progress.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

One very important question:

Will you abstain from the garrison-system?

I tried it in my own WWIII-scenario and its not
really a good idea.

I think garrisons only should be used if AI-reasons
calls for it.

What do think you about it?

I can not understand why Firaxis abstain from "intrinsic defence".
The concept was created by Dunnigan 30 years ago, and
its a very good concept.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Meateater,

Have you made any estimate how long waiting time
between turns will be using all Civs: on an "average
computer"?

I think a long loading time can not be avoided,
but that can be solved with pre-made saves.

Thus, the waiting time between turns will be
crucial.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Meateater]

I uploaded version 1.8 , but still need to add a few things to the U.S. forces. If you want to know about the other starting dates I am planning those are going to be a while.

If you are talking about having a unit in a city at the start of a game, then yes I plan on doing that. Countries at war in the start of a game need a unit in each city I think. I am planning on making units that can't move for this. I will limit a garrisoned unit making a civilian happy to one per city for the governments that support it.

I plan on using unit creating buildings for a lot of units, so I have been thinking about that too. I was thinking of using these buildings for all units. The scenario is so big that I need to limit how many units are built.
Look at what we have been doing with the units now, by getting each countries military correct at the start of the game. Talking about what one unit will represent in game (a vet infantry unit is a division ) . Now it can be continued through out the game.
I think its the way to go.
Once all of the civs have a military then this is the next plan.


In version 1.8 the U.S. have 48 aircraft, if they had 2,141 aircraft in 1939 this would mean that one in game aircraft unit would represent about 44 real aircraft. so about group? does that make scense. Germany had 8,295 in 1939 so 184 in game aircraft units and would be about 45 real aircraft.

Just a few things there.

EDIT : I hope the above post gives you an idea of what I am thinking, I would much like to improve the time BT turns. I took out the embargo and alliances again for AI.