"Beta" Massive WW2 scenario
- Thread starter Meateater
- Start date
That sounds good to do the test you are talking about with Germany, France and Poland.
About the other starting date I plan on doing the 1939 start, but after that is finished I was planned on making a 1942 starts also. So yes I want to finish the 1939 starting date, that has been the plan. The next starting date 1942 will be another project.
French Indo-China units http://orbat.com/site/history/open1/indochine1940.html
If you use the back botton at the bottom of that page, there are some other good OOB's there too. I found this while looking for info on the French navy.
Sorry if I confused anyone, sometimes I start typing and think everyone knows what I was thinking, so I don't type it all.
Feel free to PM me anytime.
About the other starting date I plan on doing the 1939 start, but after that is finished I was planned on making a 1942 starts also. So yes I want to finish the 1939 starting date, that has been the plan. The next starting date 1942 will be another project.
French Indo-China units http://orbat.com/site/history/open1/indochine1940.html
If you use the back botton at the bottom of that page, there are some other good OOB's there too. I found this while looking for info on the French navy.
Sorry if I confused anyone, sometimes I start typing and think everyone knows what I was thinking, so I don't type it all.
Feel free to PM me anytime.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
in terms of sheer numbers of units I think going from 1939 to 1942 is also quite a massive change, paticuarly for germany's army size.
Ok uploaded 2.7 with the rest of the French ground forces provided by Rocoteh. Also I included three French divisions in Indo-China. Added in the Panzerschiffe (CA) and Prinz Eugen (CA) for Germany that I missed, also from a list provided by Rocoteh.
I have all the French ships named for the BB, BC, CA, CL, classes but need the subs and 25 or so more destroyers ( DD's 44 of them I have names for) .
The French had two fleets in the Mediterranean that I know of, one from France and the other from Algeria. But still need to locate the rest of their fleets.
Need to locate were most of the French air force was too.
Hi Sarevok
Yeah I agree you, but there should be more information in those years to work from also. I have a map set aside with no units for the 1942 project when its time for it. Who knows the 1942 start may even be a Civ 4 project.
The next update in a few days should have the French navy and air force, at least one or the other. So it is looking good so far and after we get Poland in there we will do a little test.
I have all the French ships named for the BB, BC, CA, CL, classes but need the subs and 25 or so more destroyers ( DD's 44 of them I have names for) .
The French had two fleets in the Mediterranean that I know of, one from France and the other from Algeria. But still need to locate the rest of their fleets.
Need to locate were most of the French air force was too.
Hi Sarevok
Yeah I agree you, but there should be more information in those years to work from also. I have a map set aside with no units for the 1942 project when its time for it. Who knows the 1942 start may even be a Civ 4 project.
The next update in a few days should have the French navy and air force, at least one or the other. So it is looking good so far and after we get Poland in there we will do a little test.
I found the rest of the DD names so all ships but the subs for the French navy have been named. Hopefully they can be found and the Fleet grouping too and that will finish up the French navy.
What do you think I found 2 French carriers the Bearn and the Commandant. The Bearn was converted from a battleship to a carrier in the 20's.
Happy New Year
What do you think I found 2 French carriers the Bearn and the Commandant. The Bearn was converted from a battleship to a carrier in the 20's.
Happy New Year
Meateater,
With regard to Bearn and Commandant:
September 1939 Baern had been converted to an
Aircraft Ferry and Training Ship.
That it only was intended for non-combat role one
can see from the fact that it was in West Indies May 10 1940.
It was then in Martinique until 1943.
Commandant was a Seaplane Tender (scuttled to stop the
Germans from capture it).
In my opinion none of them should be represented
in the scenario.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
With regard to Bearn and Commandant:
September 1939 Baern had been converted to an
Aircraft Ferry and Training Ship.
That it only was intended for non-combat role one
can see from the fact that it was in West Indies May 10 1940.
It was then in Martinique until 1943.
Commandant was a Seaplane Tender (scuttled to stop the
Germans from capture it).
In my opinion none of them should be represented
in the scenario.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
I said before all of the French ships have names but the submarines.
Most of the French naval force was BC's but had a few older BB's.
This is what I have
French navy
Atlantic and channel= BB+BC=2, Cruisers=3 , DD=20, CV=1
Medirerranean
West Med= BB+BC,=4, Cruisers=10, DD=37, SS=36
East Med= BB+BC,=1, Cruisers=4, DD=3
Totals=BB+BC=7, Cruisers=17, DD=60, SS=36
"French Navy September 1 1939: (Battleships and Battlecruisers
have already been added to the scenario, so I will not
mention them here.
7xCA
12xCL
71xDD
76xSS
"
"France: Provence (1912), Lorraine (1912), Bretagne (1912),
Dunkerque (1932)BC and Strasbourg (1934)BC = 5 "
Above are the Bretagne and Dunkerque classes, I also want to include the Courbet (Courbet, Jean Bart(trainer), Paris) and Richelieu (Richelieu) classes. 4 ships total.
With the navy ship totals given by Rocoteh, you can see that the fleet grouping found are not too far off with the exception of the subs. Still need is what ships by name were in those fleets.
Thanks for your input Rocoteh.
Most of the French naval force was BC's but had a few older BB's.
This is what I have
French navy
Atlantic and channel= BB+BC=2, Cruisers=3 , DD=20, CV=1
Medirerranean
West Med= BB+BC,=4, Cruisers=10, DD=37, SS=36
East Med= BB+BC,=1, Cruisers=4, DD=3
Totals=BB+BC=7, Cruisers=17, DD=60, SS=36
"French Navy September 1 1939: (Battleships and Battlecruisers
have already been added to the scenario, so I will not
mention them here.
7xCA
12xCL
71xDD
76xSS
"
"France: Provence (1912), Lorraine (1912), Bretagne (1912),
Dunkerque (1932)BC and Strasbourg (1934)BC = 5 "
Above are the Bretagne and Dunkerque classes, I also want to include the Courbet (Courbet, Jean Bart(trainer), Paris) and Richelieu (Richelieu) classes. 4 ships total.
With the navy ship totals given by Rocoteh, you can see that the fleet grouping found are not too far off with the exception of the subs. Still need is what ships by name were in those fleets.
Thanks for your input Rocoteh.
Meateater,
Courbet, Jean Bart and Paris were all training ships,
never refitted after WWI and not intented for combat.
Richelieu was not completed at the outbreak of War.
However if you think they should be included its
OK with me. One can see it as a "what-if" feature.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Courbet, Jean Bart and Paris were all training ships,
never refitted after WWI and not intented for combat.
Richelieu was not completed at the outbreak of War.
However if you think they should be included its
OK with me. One can see it as a "what-if" feature.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Meateater,
Poland OOB:
Deployed at the border East Prussia East - West
Suwalka Cavalry Brigade
Podlaska Cavalry Brigade
33 Reserve Infantry Division
18 Infantry Division
Nowgrodzka Cavalry Brigade
20 Infantry Division
Mazowlecka Cavalry Brigade
8 Infantry Division
4 Infantry Division
9 Infantry Division
15 Infantry Division
Garrison Division Gdynia
Deployed at the border Pomerania North - South
Pomorska Cavalry Brigade
16 Infantry Division
27 Infantry Division
14 Infantry Division
Wielkopolska Cavalry Brigade
25 Infantry Division
26 Infantry Division
Deployed at border Silesia North - South
Pudolska Cavalry Brigade
Kresowa Cavalry Brigade
Wolynska Cavalry Brigade
45 Infantry Division
28 Infantry Division
2 Infantry Division
10 Infantry Division
17 Infantry Division
Crakowska Cavalry Brigade
13 Infantry Division
55 Reserve Infantry Division
36 Reserve Infantry Division
29 Infantry Division
23 Infantry Division
11 Infantry Division
6 Infantry Division
Wilenska Cavalry Brigade
Border Slovakia West - East
1 Mountain Brigade
7 Infantry Division
21 Mountain Division
2 Mountain Brigade
38 Infantry Division
24 Infantry Division
10 Motorized Infantry Brigade
Warzaw:
1 Warzaw Garrison Division
2 Warzaw Garrison Division
5 Infantry Division
44 Infantry Division
1 Infantry Division
38 Reserve Infantry Division
41 Reserve Infantry Division
22 Mountain Division
Air OOB
120 PZL P-7/11 (Fighter-Bomber)
100 PZL P23 (Bomber)
60 PZL P37 (Bomber)
Naval OOB
4xDestroyers
5xSubmarines
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Poland OOB:
Deployed at the border East Prussia East - West
Suwalka Cavalry Brigade
Podlaska Cavalry Brigade
33 Reserve Infantry Division
18 Infantry Division
Nowgrodzka Cavalry Brigade
20 Infantry Division
Mazowlecka Cavalry Brigade
8 Infantry Division
4 Infantry Division
9 Infantry Division
15 Infantry Division
Garrison Division Gdynia
Deployed at the border Pomerania North - South
Pomorska Cavalry Brigade
16 Infantry Division
27 Infantry Division
14 Infantry Division
Wielkopolska Cavalry Brigade
25 Infantry Division
26 Infantry Division
Deployed at border Silesia North - South
Pudolska Cavalry Brigade
Kresowa Cavalry Brigade
Wolynska Cavalry Brigade
45 Infantry Division
28 Infantry Division
2 Infantry Division
10 Infantry Division
17 Infantry Division
Crakowska Cavalry Brigade
13 Infantry Division
55 Reserve Infantry Division
36 Reserve Infantry Division
29 Infantry Division
23 Infantry Division
11 Infantry Division
6 Infantry Division
Wilenska Cavalry Brigade
Border Slovakia West - East
1 Mountain Brigade
7 Infantry Division
21 Mountain Division
2 Mountain Brigade
38 Infantry Division
24 Infantry Division
10 Motorized Infantry Brigade
Warzaw:
1 Warzaw Garrison Division
2 Warzaw Garrison Division
5 Infantry Division
44 Infantry Division
1 Infantry Division
38 Reserve Infantry Division
41 Reserve Infantry Division
22 Mountain Division
Air OOB
120 PZL P-7/11 (Fighter-Bomber)
100 PZL P23 (Bomber)
60 PZL P37 (Bomber)
Naval OOB
4xDestroyers
5xSubmarines
Best Regards
Rocoteh
" Added in the Panzerschiffe (CA) and Prinz Eugen (CA) for Germany that I missed, also from a list provided by Rocoteh."
Meateater,
With regard to Panzerschiffe:
It should be deleted, since it is a language-misunderstandment.
On page 1, Post 17 Adler17 names the Panzerschiffe:
Lutzow
Admiral Scheer
Admiral Graf Spee
If you make a direct translation German - English
Panzershiffe = Armoredship
In english naval terms one have:
BB
B
BC
AC
CA
The above named 3 ships falls outside this.
Someone have named them "Pocket Battleships"
Not a good idea I think. I think BC after all is the best.
....also in other Germanic languages Panzerschiffe
can mean an 1890-1910 Coastal Defense Ship or
an AC = Armored Cruiser.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Meateater,
With regard to Panzerschiffe:
It should be deleted, since it is a language-misunderstandment.
On page 1, Post 17 Adler17 names the Panzerschiffe:
Lutzow
Admiral Scheer
Admiral Graf Spee
If you make a direct translation German - English
Panzershiffe = Armoredship
In english naval terms one have:
BB
B
BC
AC
CA
The above named 3 ships falls outside this.
Someone have named them "Pocket Battleships"
Not a good idea I think. I think BC after all is the best.
....also in other Germanic languages Panzerschiffe
can mean an 1890-1910 Coastal Defense Ship or
an AC = Armored Cruiser.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Since the things hadn't the size or armament of a British BC, yet were more powerful than you'd expect from a CA, you could introduce them as a separate unit type, perhaps.
Uploaded 2.9 with the Polish forces. Also added in some of the French navy.
Removed Panzerschiffe from German navy.
Take a look at what is there and when the French military gets finished we can do a test.
Thanks again to all for your comments.
Removed Panzerschiffe from German navy.
Take a look at what is there and when the French military gets finished we can do a test.
Thanks again to all for your comments.
Meateater,
That sounds great!
Then when France OOB is finished we could
maybe do 2 "mini-scenarios" (Germany,France and Poland):
1) "We are going to hang out the washing on the
Siegfried Line" = Most French units set to attack.
2) 100% Defend. Nearly all French units set to defend.
In such a case a large part of the French Army must be
relocated East, since if you set AI-strategy to defend,
those units will stay where they are.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
That sounds great!
Then when France OOB is finished we could
maybe do 2 "mini-scenarios" (Germany,France and Poland):
1) "We are going to hang out the washing on the
Siegfried Line" = Most French units set to attack.
2) 100% Defend. Nearly all French units set to defend.
In such a case a large part of the French Army must be
relocated East, since if you set AI-strategy to defend,
those units will stay where they are.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Yup just need a few more things. From what you listed the French had 1,250 aircraft, if 1 in game unit is 50 then they will have 14 bombers and 11 fighters.
All of the Cruisers (both CL & CA) have been named and placed for France. Still need to find locations for the DD's , subs and a few BC's, BB's. I know I can find the rest of the BC's and BB's but the DD's and SS's I have not had much luck.
I see what you are saying about the tests, I have not set the AI yet. A long with those two test you mentioned I would like to try a all random setting and then a 75% defend setting for French AI.
Maybe early this week it will be ready to run the test.
All of the Cruisers (both CL & CA) have been named and placed for France. Still need to find locations for the DD's , subs and a few BC's, BB's. I know I can find the rest of the BC's and BB's but the DD's and SS's I have not had much luck.
I see what you are saying about the tests, I have not set the AI yet. A long with those two test you mentioned I would like to try a all random setting and then a 75% defend setting for French AI.
Maybe early this week it will be ready to run the test.
Meateater,
Concerning the locations of DD and Submarines:
With all respect that you want OOB:s and locations
nearly 100% accurate, can you not in this case make
just an estimate?
During the last 40 years I have seen and played
most of the wargames realated to WWII on the strategic
and operational level. Many of them have free deployment!
With regard to the tests: It sounds good.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
Concerning the locations of DD and Submarines:
With all respect that you want OOB:s and locations
nearly 100% accurate, can you not in this case make
just an estimate?
During the last 40 years I have seen and played
most of the wargames realated to WWII on the strategic
and operational level. Many of them have free deployment!
With regard to the tests: It sounds good.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
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