Beta UHV discussion

[ezzlar]

The first Byzantine UHV used to be a lot harder since Roma started with a head in cultural points. Now Constantinople and Roma starts even and Constantinople has a higher culture production so the first UHV is a free win (unless you forget to curb Alexandrias growth).

 

[Barak]

The 3rd Spanish UHV can be quite simple (Protestant faith not founded) or IMPOSSIBLE: founded in 1584 with immediate conversion.

In my current game Poland founded printing press in 1582 and Germany and Poland converted. There is no way I can get my armies over there in time to take three cities.

 

[AbsintheRed]

The first Byzantine UHV used to be a lot harder since Roma started with a head in cultural points. Now Constantinople and Roma starts even and Constantinople has a higher culture production so the first UHV is a free win (unless you forget to curb Alexandrias growth).

How much should be Rome's advantage on start?

 

[AbsintheRed]

The 3rd Spanish UHV can be quite simple (Protestant faith not founded) or IMPOSSIBLE: founded in 1584 with immediate conversion.

In my current game Poland founded printing press in 1582 and Germany and Poland converted. There is no way I can get my armies over there in time to take three cities.

Agreed, there should be a cooldown, to avoid situations like this
What about this: You win the UHV if there are no Protestant nations in ~1550, or you conquer 3 protestant cities till 1588

 

[Barak]

Agreed, there should be a cooldown, to avoid situations like this
What about this: You win the UHV if there are no Protestant nations in ~1550, or you conquer 3 protestant cities till 1588

I had thought that something like that would be fair. The UHV's should be tough, but fair.

 

[AbsintheRed]

On second thought this is still not enough:
What if there is a protestant nation in 1550, then converts away from protestantism the next year?
You lose your first option for winning the UHV, and have absolutely no chance for winning with the second option either

So you should win, if:
there are no protestant nation in ~1550
or there are no protestant nations in 1588
or you conquer 3 protestant cities till 1588

 

[merijn_v1]

We shouldn't have one UHV that you can win in different years. A suggestion: Conquer 3 Protestant cities or have no protestant civs within a 100 years (or something) when protestantism is found. So if protestantism is found in 1550 AD, you have until 1650 to conquer 3 protestant cities.

 

[Michael Vick]

We shouldn't have one UHV that you can win in different years. A suggestion: Conquer 3 Protestant cities or have no protestant civs within a 100 years (or something) when protestantism is found. So if protestantism is found in 1550 AD, you have until 1650 to conquer 3 protestant cities.

3 seems like very little. 80 years war, 30 years war...

 

[merijn_v1]

I said 3 because the you need 3 cities for the current UHV. I don't mind if it is more.

 

[AbsintheRed]

The first Byzantine UHV used to be a lot harder since Roma started with a head in cultural points. Now Constantinople and Roma starts even and Constantinople has a higher culture production so the first UHV is a free win (unless you forget to curb Alexandrias growth).

How much should be Rome's advantage on start?

For now, the city of Rome has 2000 culture on start with around 10 culture/turn
Constantinople has 100, with about 20 culture/turn
You have to work down the 1900 advantage in ~140 turns
Definitely doable, maybe still a little easy

 

[rock_star]

Actually I like that you have to build those cathedrals, and owning them is not enough
Better goal for the UHV, and sounds more realistic to me
(So in a very unlikely situation where a city with a cathedral flips to you, that cathedral won't count)

Btw, your converted catholic cathedral should still count as +1 to the built catholic cathedrals.
Besides of that one, you should have had to build 2 catholics, and 2 protestants
If it wasn't this way, please report back

You're correct - the Catholic cathedral counted as having been built, even after the conversion, and I still had 0 credit for built Protestant cathedrals.

I agree that the cathedrals should be checked to see if they're built rather than owned - a less observant player may not notice a cathedral had converted, and wonder why they haven't won the UHV after building the right number of required cathedrals.

I also agree that the checks should be for Jewish Quarters owned, as the player can't control Judaism's spread, and I think UHVs should be tied more to skill than chance. In my Polish game in question, only Poznan, Tanja and Jerusalem have Jewish presence. Had Spain or Portugal taken Tanja and purged Judaism, I'd be left with 2 cities, one of which had the Temple Mount, which I couldn't have built a Quarter in, making the UHV impossible at that point. The pedia says the Jews move to another city as they're prosecuted, but I've never seen it happen - is this supposed to be immediate, or take time?

Can the UHV coded to check for cathedrals built and Jewish Quarters owned? I think that's the best (and least confusing) way to go about the UHV - the player really shouldn't be punished for building a wonder (since Tanja always starts with Jews, even Spain can build the Mount without failing their UHV if they take the Moroccan pillar and build it there).

 

[AbsintheRed]

Can the UHV coded to check for cathedrals built and Jewish Quarters owned?

Yep, the UHV text is already changed this way in the latest svn version
I'm still messing around with the code, but it will be implemented in Beta 12 for sure

 

[rock_star]

Yep, the UHV text is already changed this way in the latest svn version
I'm still messing around with the code, but it will be implemented in Beta 12 for sure

Awesome!

 

[Michael Vick]

is the rate of the spread of Judaism final? I personally think Jews should be more commonplace.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I'm not sure that the spreading of Judaism is working perfectly
Never saw it spreading to a new place after it was persecuted from a city

 

[Barak]

So the Spanish 3rd UHV was not changed in Beta 12?

 

[Ororo]

The second Genoan UHV seems bugged. I failed it despite the fact that it doesn't say you have to build Banks by a certain date.

 

[dale_bu]

Had you founded the 2 Corporations or had so many been founded that there weren't two left for your Genoese to found?

 

[Ororo]

I founded Hansaetic League and Bank of St. George.

 

[rock_star]

The Genoa bug was reported here, as well. I won the UHV by founding Hanseads, Templars and Medicis . . . does the game view the military corps differently from the financial corps? The two posters reporting UHV failures didn't found a military order - I don't know if that makes a difference or not.