Beta UHV discussion

[Caliom]

The corps are not treated differently. The problem is that you fail when the last corporation is founded and you haven't build 8 banks yet.
So you have to found two corporations and build 8 banks before all corporations are founded.

I don't know if this was intended. But its an interesting fail condition.

 

[3Miro]

All corps should be the same. This sounds like a bug.

 

[3Miro]

The corps are not treated differently. The problem is that you fail when the last corporation is founded and you haven't build 8 banks yet.
So you have to found two corporations and build 8 banks before all corporations are founded.

I don't know if this was intended. But its an interesting fail condition.

I see. I think I know where the bug is. I will fix it as soon as I am back.

 

[Nintz]

So I tried playing a game as Cordoba, but don't know how I'm supposed to win.

The first UHV goal says to make Cordoba the largest city in the world, but with Alexandria, Constantinople, and some other Byzantine cities, its impossible.

And I'm playing on Viceroy!

I achieved the second goal pretty easily, just had to slightly alter my tech path.

While I failed the third goal, that's probably just because I didn't build up my military enough and fell to Spain.

Also tried out Venice and Burgundy.

Burgundy's pretty fun to play, and the objectives may cause you to alter your play style.

Venice- What's up with the 2nd (Conquer Constantinople) condition? When I think of the Republic of Venice, I don't think of warmongerors. (I could be way off though.)

Instead, I would suggest trying to obtain certain Luxury Resources only (or primarily)found in the colonies. Ex: Obtain at least one coffee, silver, gold, silk, and spices by year 1600.

You don't need to build colonies, just trade with colonial powers.

Note: Haven't played with that goal in mind, as it was just I idea I came up with.

Just my current thoughts on the UHVs, but still- great mod!

 

[merijn_v1]

So I tried playing a game as Cordoba, but don't know how I'm supposed to win.

The first UHV goal says to make Cordoba the largest city in the world, but with Alexandria, Constantinople, and some other Byzantine cities, its impossible.

And I'm playing on Viceroy!

I achieved the second goal pretty easily, just had to slightly alter my tech path.

While I failed the third goal, that's probably just because I didn't build up my military enough and fell to Spain.

Also tried out Venice and Burgundy.

Burgundy's pretty fun to play, and the objectives may cause you to alter your play style.

Venice- What's up with the 2nd (Conquer Constantinople) condition? When I think of the Republic of Venice, I don't think of warmongerors. (I could be way off though.)

Instead, I would suggest trying to obtain certain Luxury Resources only (or primarily)found in the colonies. Ex: Obtain at least one coffee, silver, gold, silk, and spices by year 1600.

You don't need to build colonies, just trade with colonial powers.

Note: Haven't played with that goal in mind, as it was just I idea I came up with.

Just my current thoughts on the UHVs, but still- great mod!

Welcome to CFC.

The first Cordoban UHV is possible. You need a city of 9-10 pop and your done. You were probably unlucky.

We only balance the game for Monarch. Viceroy is very likely unbalanced.

It's very likely you should change your playing style (a bit) to achieve the UHV. That makes the game more diverse.

 

[3Miro]

So I tried playing a game as Cordoba, but don't know how I'm supposed to win.

The first UHV goal says to make Cordoba the largest city in the world, but with Alexandria, Constantinople, and some other Byzantine cities, its impossible.

And I'm playing on Viceroy!

I achieved the second goal pretty easily, just had to slightly alter my tech path.

While I failed the third goal, that's probably just because I didn't build up my military enough and fell to Spain.

Also tried out Venice and Burgundy.

Burgundy's pretty fun to play, and the objectives may cause you to alter your play style.

Venice- What's up with the 2nd (Conquer Constantinople) condition? When I think of the Republic of Venice, I don't think of warmongerors. (I could be way off though.)

Instead, I would suggest trying to obtain certain Luxury Resources only (or primarily)found in the colonies. Ex: Obtain at least one coffee, silver, gold, silk, and spices by year 1600.

You don't need to build colonies, just trade with colonial powers.

Note: Haven't played with that goal in mind, as it was just I idea I came up with.

Just my current thoughts on the UHVs, but still- great mod!

Welcome to the mod. Our mod is hard, you should keep that in mind. You should expect to fail an UHV couple of times before you find the right strategy. Also, we balance Monarch and it is possible that some UHV conditions are harder on Viceroy (although I do think Cordoba is doable).

For Venice and Constantinople: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade

Also note that some of the UHV conditions are deliberately chosen to be ahistoric. Basically we are looking for a goal that a nation failed, but would have had tremendous impact on Europe. For example: England winning the 100 years war, or the Ottoman Empire conquering Vienna, or Kiev Rus stopping the Mongolian invasion.

 

[Nintz]

Welcome to CFC.

The first Cordoban UHV is possible. You need a city of 9-10 pop and your done. You were probably unlucky.

We only balance the game for Monarch. Viceroy is very likely unbalanced.

It's very likely you should change your playing style (a bit) to achieve the UHV. That makes the game more diverse.

Thanks for the welcome.

Cordoba- I had a size 9 city, failed, and checked WB to see.

Alexandria was size 15. 15! Constantinople was like 11. And a couple other cities were 10s.

In my other games, I have NEVER seen the Cordobans accomplish this goal.

I also realize that Viceroy is probably unbalanced, but shouldn't that make it easier?

And yes, I probably do need to change my play style. I tend to go super-builder mode.

@3Miro- Ah... so that's why its there.

And yes, I realize this mod is tough, but that makes it fun, right?

 

[3Miro]

Cordoba- I had a size 9 city, failed, and checked WB to see.

Alexandria was size 15. 15! Constantinople was like 11. And a couple other cities were 10s.

Recently we added some more food resourced near Alexandria, maybe we messed up the balance there.

In my other games, I have NEVER seen the Cordobans accomplish this goal.

The AI would hardly ever achieve a UHV. The conditions are meant to be hard and they require special play style. The AI is pretty incompetent.

Also, the UHV conditions are not fair towards some nations. For example, Bulgaria and Kiev can win UHV Victory before the Dutch even get a chance to spawn. If those two stood a reasonable chance to win, then you wouldn't even be able to start a game as the Dutch.

And yes, I realize this mod is tough, but that makes it fun, right?

That's the idea.

 

[dale_bu]

I won with Cordoba on the current Beta 12 on Monarch, so it is achievable with the food changes to Alexandria.

It did require dedicating that city completely to the first UHV and using other cities for everything else.

I have been unlucky on earlier attempts and missed that first Cordoban UHV and thought it was unachievable as well. I think it is just luck of the draw sometimes.

 

[Veshta]

Cordoba's 1st UHV has been a food focus thing since Beta 9 I think. Noria first, Smoke house second and as many farms as you can cram in .. don't even think about working a tile with no food or building anything but those two as 'first thing'.

Can't reach 15 though, think 14 is the highest I have ever gotten it but was a while ago.

Quite a few of the 1st UHV are focused objectives that leave very little room for free will

 

[rock_star]

Welcome to the mod. Our mod is hard, you should keep that in mind. You should expect to fail an UHV couple of times before you find the right strategy. Also, we balance Monarch and it is possible that some UHV conditions are harder on Viceroy (although I do think Cordoba is doable).

For Venice and Constantinople: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade

Also note that some of the UHV conditions are deliberately chosen to be ahistoric. Basically we are looking for a goal that a nation failed, but would have had tremendous impact on Europe. For example: England winning the 100 years war, or the Ottoman Empire conquering Vienna, or Kiev Rus stopping the Mongolian invasion.

Whenever I play SOI, I have to keep an eye on Byzantium. Every few games they manage to survive the assaults from the Seljuk & Rȗm in great shape. They've won a few historical victories if I don't gold spam around 1500.

I've also lost games to Mali in regular RFC, since their UHV goals involve gold spamming (& the AI is given reduced penalties; plus, it doesn't help that their UP and UB help with their UHV goals).

I have yet to lose an RFCE game to a UHV, though, mainly because the UHVs here are much more difficult than those of the other mods (and difficult isn't a bad thing - that's where the fun lies!). I've seen the Ottomans and Spain get 2 out of 3, but I doubt the AI will ever pull one off.

Cordoba's 1st UHV has been a food focus thing since Beta 9 I think. Noria first, Smoke house second and as many farms as you can cram in .. don't even think about working a tile with no food or building anything but those two as 'first thing'.

Can't reach 15 though, think 14 is the highest I have ever gotten it but was a while ago.

Quite a few of the 1st UHV are focused objectives that leave very little room for free will

The French, Muscovy, Norse and Bulgarian UHVs are all like this. Rush rush rush! The Polish and Kievan UHVs are also similar - settle as many cities as possible as quickly as possible to boost your agricultural yields. No time to think about anything but that first goal!

 

[Daffy]

I have yet to lose an RFCE game to a UHV, though, mainly because the UHVs here are much more difficult than those of the other mods (and difficult isn't a bad thing - that's where the fun lies!). I've seen the Ottomans and Spain get 2 out of 3, but I doubt the AI will ever pull one off.

Burgundy shocked me with that one at least once (in a previous beta)
UHV 3 of 3 was having more luxury resouces than the other Europeans, which they managed along with the other stuff.
And my game with Portugal was going so well(or so I thought^^)

 

[Daffy]

I won with Cordoba on the current Beta 12 on Monarch, so it is achievable with the food changes to Alexandria.

It did require dedicating that city completely to the first UHV and using other cities for everything else.

I have been unlucky on earlier attempts and missed that first Cordoban UHV and thought it was unachievable as well. I think it is just luck of the draw sometimes.

I've failed that particular UHV several time in previous betas.
The best I managed was I think 12 with Cordoba (13 might have been possible)
But Thessaloniki can also be 14+, Constantinopel too and Alexandria was another good candidate. For that UHV you need a poor playing Byzantium imo. Or you have to do something like naval blockades.. but hmm well that's never worked for me, simply not enough time for something like that.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Alexandria might got a little too big boost
We should probably cut back the food resources in the area, or spawn Domyat or Cairo early enough to "steal" a few good tiles from Alexandria

 

[ezzlar]

Alexandria lost the flooded plain two sq east. Why is that an improvement?

 

[AbsintheRed]

The area was still improved
I'm not totally sure of Alexandria, will check all 3 cities food production

 

[Veshta]

Dumyat got the extra floodplain and there is no overlap with Alexandria. Where the former has a bunch of low/no food tiles to work thus eliminating the surplus, the latter has very few and until unlimited specialists are possible Alex. has nothing to do but grow fat.

First plague is what determines how the UHV pans out, Byzans has to be hit hard and Cordoba lightly for it to 'work out'. Perhaps exempting Cordoba from the initial plague is enough to make it less of a crap-shoot.

 

[AbsintheRed]

The 3 cities I meant is Constantinopolis, Alexandria and Cordoba
The UHV should be possible to win even if you didn't have luck with the plague

 

[J. pride]

I think you should do two things:

1) Make Arabia more likely to settle Cairo or even spawn Cairo if you have to.
2) Make it so that the Arabs conquer Alexandria more often. (This will delay or even growth in the city)

 

[dragodon64]

^ I second this. Arabia founds some Samariyyah or something south of Damascus in the desert before it founds Cairo, which I think is pretty dumb. It also makes historical sense that Arabia uses a starting settler to found Cairo, as the city of Fustat (right beside Cairo) was founded in 641.