Nintz
King of the Britons
On #3, Absin just said that Arabian colonization through AA is too ahistoric to be a goal for the UHV. Would be nice though.
Beta UHV discussion
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On #3, Absin just said that Arabian colonization through AA is too ahistoric to be a goal for the UHV. Would be nice though.
Nintz
King of the Britons
But the issue is that Islam spread via the east side of the Arab world.
The only way to colonize in Europe is through the Atlantic. Thus, it is ahistoric to require Arab goals with colonization.
I wish it was viable, but without a "Arabian" or "Middle Eastern" access, I don't see it happening.
The only way to colonize in Europe is through the Atlantic. Thus, it is ahistoric to require Arab goals with colonization.
I wish it was viable, but without a "Arabian" or "Middle Eastern" access, I don't see it happening.
Nintz
King of the Britons
That's true.
I'm not sure if it's quite accurate for the Arabs though.
They were famous for-
1. Extremely cultured comapared to Europe (A UHV could represent this)
2. Islamic (the 30% requirement is probobly enough for this)
3. Conquerors in the name of Islam (perhaps having them conquer certain provinces like Sicily, Crete, or Calabria would be the best way to challenge the arabs. A general "conquer Afrcia" requirement is rather simple.
4. Traders to the far east (Can't be put in due to ahistoric way this would be implemented.)
There are other things too, but I think these are the biggest elements.
I'm not sure if it's quite accurate for the Arabs though.
They were famous for-
1. Extremely cultured comapared to Europe (A UHV could represent this)
2. Islamic (the 30% requirement is probobly enough for this)
3. Conquerors in the name of Islam (perhaps having them conquer certain provinces like Sicily, Crete, or Calabria would be the best way to challenge the arabs. A general "conquer Afrcia" requirement is rather simple.
4. Traders to the far east (Can't be put in due to ahistoric way this would be implemented.)
There are other things too, but I think these are the biggest elements.
Nintz
King of the Britons
I suppose so. Seeing as how the East Asia colonies all require AA, this probably won't help them much though.
They also usually found Al-Aqabah anyway.
They also usually found Al-Aqabah anyway.
AbsintheRed
Deity
Ohh, it seems that an espionage based UHV for Arabia isn't too popular :/
I don't really like the arabian colonization UHV either
Even if it would represent a different thing, it feels so weird to accomplish it through Atlantic Access.
Merijn what do you think about this?
I don't really like the arabian colonization UHV either
Even if it would represent a different thing, it feels so weird to accomplish it through Atlantic Access.
Merijn what do you think about this?
I've only seen opposition from Nintz and ezzlar?
However, if that one is not up to taste, how about revisiting Imams and Dhimmis, require the player to settle a number of great prophets by a certain year? As Sian said, great prophets could represent theological thinkers. It would require the player to prioritize temples as well as military for the early conquest, and incentivise conquest of christian cities to get additional temples. Rebuilding christian infrastructure could represent tolerance to the Dhimmi people of the book.
However, if that one is not up to taste, how about revisiting Imams and Dhimmis, require the player to settle a number of great prophets by a certain year? As Sian said, great prophets could represent theological thinkers. It would require the player to prioritize temples as well as military for the early conquest, and incentivise conquest of christian cities to get additional temples. Rebuilding christian infrastructure could represent tolerance to the Dhimmi people of the book.
The Great Prophet thing sounds very good on paper, but what when you switch to that lovely civic called Religious Law and never build a temple of any sort .. what tolerance does that represent?
There is only one way to "force" the building of foreign temples and that is to make the UHV require Cathedrals be built like the Polish currently have.
A culture requirement would be very appropriate, but it would be the second or third civ with such a UHV.
Why not latch on to one of the other major concepts that came out of Islam, public education/universities?
Give them a X% literacy (or library+university) requirement by year Y. Combined with an aggressive (ie. destabilizing) expansion requirement that could prove challenging.
There is only one way to "force" the building of foreign temples and that is to make the UHV require Cathedrals be built like the Polish currently have.
A culture requirement would be very appropriate, but it would be the second or third civ with such a UHV.
Why not latch on to one of the other major concepts that came out of Islam, public education/universities?
Give them a X% literacy (or library+university) requirement by year Y. Combined with an aggressive (ie. destabilizing) expansion requirement that could prove challenging.
given that cities can be packed tight and they're allready capable of spreading like weed (only deteriment is Stability (specially if you nail Maquizia, or whatever its called) and thats for a large part a question of building enough ManorHouses/Courthouses/Castles in tightly packed cities. Its not uncommon for me for several of the large nations to sit with +40-50 Stability midgame due to packing cities very tight (and given that they don't have the health to support big cities its no large loss ... Arabia for an example is hard pressed to get to 15 Health with fresh water)
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
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- 10,428
Is it possible to track how many leaders do you convert to Islam? That would be a totally original UHV, could include espionage usage and would fit Arabia very well. If they convert, say, 7 Europe leaders to Islam wouldn't they feel like they won a historical victory?
merijn_v1
Black Belt
As Arabia, you won't build any temple at all because of their UP.
I can see that a cultural UHV is historical for Arabia, but I think it will be quite boring for Arabia. Because of their UP, they get a large amount of culture in every city. It won't be very challenging.
I like Tigranes' idea, but it's very unlikely that a Civ will change religion. I think you only will convert 1-2 civs, if you even can convert them at all.
AbsintheRed
Deity
Is it possible to track how many leaders do you convert to Islam? That would be a totally original UHV, could include espionage usage and would fit Arabia very well. If they convert, say, 7 Europe leaders to Islam wouldn't they feel like they won a historical victory?
I don't think converting everyone to Islam would be a legit goal in RFC Europe
I agree with ezzlar on this. A few temples don't really matter
And some sort of culture based UHV would be nice for Arabia
Probably it shouldn't be just a simple acquire X culture till Y, but something clearly connected to cultural dominance
AbsintheRed
Deity
3Miro is/was also against espionage based UHVs
(actually, in general against the espionage system in Civ IV, at least in a medieval mod like this)
Yep, I would also tie culture to something else
Something like this can work too
3Miro
Deity
This mod is about Europe and hence borderline civilizations like Arabia and Moscow have a somewhat skewed representation. We don't have a Siberian conquest by Moscow and we should not have a colonization goal for Arabia. We should pick something Arabic that did or could directly influence Europe.
Culture goal is good. Being the first to the Scientific Method is also a good goal. Getting the great prophets overlaps a bit with Bulgaria and the Dutch (Bulgaria needs the Saints for FP and the Dutch need to settle the merchants in Amsterdam), so this is not entirely unique.
We should have a conquest goal as well as % Islam goal. The third one should be about Culture, either generate enormous amount of total Culture or have three cities with huge culture.
Culture goal is good. Being the first to the Scientific Method is also a good goal. Getting the great prophets overlaps a bit with Bulgaria and the Dutch (Bulgaria needs the Saints for FP and the Dutch need to settle the merchants in Amsterdam), so this is not entirely unique.
We should have a conquest goal as well as % Islam goal. The third one should be about Culture, either generate enormous amount of total Culture or have three cities with huge culture.
ezzlar
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,847
3Miro: I like your thoughts! How about the following UHVs:
1. Conquest. Current conquest area is unproblematic, almost no opposition at all! The only wars, except Byzantium, is probably kicking the Cordobans out of Algeria. Why not stop the conquests at Tunis and instead add Sicily, Rhodes, Cyprus or a city or two somewhere on the European continent?
2. Islam. 30% sounds ok, but not so hard if you expand and aid Cordoba/Ottomans.
3. Culture. Prophets are not unique but it is still a variant that no other civ has. We could have "Be first to research education", usually I dont tech education until late game since your houses of wisdom become obsolete and they provide a huge bonus. This way you have to reseach it kinda early! Three cities with huge culture is also nice.
I almost feel like removing the islam goal since the conquest goal does almost the same thing! Then we would have conquest, culture and research!
1. Conquest. Current conquest area is unproblematic, almost no opposition at all! The only wars, except Byzantium, is probably kicking the Cordobans out of Algeria. Why not stop the conquests at Tunis and instead add Sicily, Rhodes, Cyprus or a city or two somewhere on the European continent?
2. Islam. 30% sounds ok, but not so hard if you expand and aid Cordoba/Ottomans.
3. Culture. Prophets are not unique but it is still a variant that no other civ has. We could have "Be first to research education", usually I dont tech education until late game since your houses of wisdom become obsolete and they provide a huge bonus. This way you have to reseach it kinda early! Three cities with huge culture is also nice.
I almost feel like removing the islam goal since the conquest goal does almost the same thing! Then we would have conquest, culture and research!
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