Beta UHV discussion

[yogiebere]

I like it. But which UHV should it replace. I think the old ones are better. (Maybe the last could be replaced (Be the first who enters the industrial age))

I agree, the current UHVs are good, and England wouldn't have a hope in hell to get it with its current situation. I beelined printing press on monarch and even with cottage spawn I didn't get it. It has to be at least possibly

 

[merijn_v1]

And I thought it was harder than that. If it is too easy, we can do stuff about it. Many things changed for Beta 5. I want to test couple of more things (make sure there are no more bugs) and I will release it in maybe an hour or two.

I did have a bit of luck. I could conquer the cities very quick. (Actually, I saved before I attacked, and when I won, I played further, otherwise I loaded and tried it over until I succeeded. So it isn't completely luck, I forced myself to be lucky.)

Actually, this doesn't matter for the UHV. You have no time-limit for succeeding it. So if you can't conquer the cities soon, it doesn't matter. You only win the UHV later.

 

[ezzlar]

I just tried the french UHVs. I managed to complete UHV nr 1 in about 8 years before time limit. It was a fun challenge! But since so many of the cities are flippers I usually wait with the last settlers and build the cities right before time limit so they dont grow before the flip. And also I try to give them terrible locations to mess up capitals. Fun!

Its 1000AD, I only have the last wonder left (fountainbleu) and a few turns left to complete Krak. That means I have 400 years left to complete it. To long timeframe. Why not add an earlier wonder instead and make it 1000/1100AD? Or more wonders but instead 1300?

Third is kinda pushover. You already have Atlantic access. Just dont fall behind in tech and you will win. This needs to be more challenging. How about build the first colony?

 

[3Miro]

Its 1000AD, I only have the last wonder left (fountainbleu) and a few turns left to complete Krak. That means I have 400 years left to complete it. To long timeframe. Why not add an earlier wonder instead and make it 1000/1100AD? Or more wonders but instead 1300?

Third is kinda pushover. You already have Atlantic access. Just dont fall behind in tech and you will win. This needs to be more challenging. How about build the first colony?

That is why I wanted to make the second UHV: Conquer Jerusalem. That will give you a different focus for a time, not just build and research.

 

[ezzlar]

That is why I wanted to make the second UHV: Conquer Jerusalem. That will give you a different focus for a time, not just build and research.

How about:

Have X number of units in Jerusalem in 1100AD?

This would not only force you to conquer Jerusalem (or help fellow Catholic) but also ferry some units over the sea. Which was the original way of conquering Jerusalem (since they hadnt access to the teleport technology ).

It also helps the fact that you dont lose the UHV because you arent liked by enough civs and not voted to lead the Crusades.

 

[ezzlar]

And I thought it was harder than that. If it is too easy, we can do stuff about it. Many things changed for Beta 5. I want to test couple of more things (make sure there are no more bugs) and I will release it in maybe an hour or two.

Anyhow, control whole North Africa east of (forgot name) only consists of defeating a few independents. Why not make a UHV to control some European land? For example found a city here, there and there.

 

[ezzlar]

New Kievan UHVs are good and doable. However, it is still to easy because of the lack of external threaths, except the mongols. Adding Lithuania will probably make just perfect

 

[ezzlar]

Cordoba UHV 1 is too easy. If you order governor to focus on food and build Noria+Smokehouse you are done. Plague kills of Constantinoples top population.

 

[Daffy]

Cordoba UHV 1 is too easy. If you order governor to focus on food and build Noria+Smokehouse you are done. Plague kills of Constantinoples top population.

last time I tried, Cordoba size 12 (13 was possible but gave up once I saw Byzantium)
Byzantium 15
Alexandria 14
Thessaloniki 14
and so on

 

[Daffy]

The 2nd Portuguese UHV (never lose a city..) is the ahistorical one I suppose
(they gave up their territories(trading posts) in morocco)
but it's not really a challenge

The 3rd Ventian UHV however (build the first colony, ahistorical?) would be very suiting for Portugal(Gold Coast in 1471, 1498 India)
Whereas Venice could use the never lose a city UHV until xxxxAD(hold on to Constantinopel)

how about switching the two UHV's?

however, imo there is atm no chance whatsoever of Portugal achieveing that goal

 

[3Miro]

The 2nd Portuguese UHV (never lose a city..) is the ahistorical one I suppose
(they gave up their territories(trading posts) in morocco)
but it's not really a challenge

The 3rd Ventian UHV however (build the first colony, ahistorical?) would be very suiting for Portugal(Gold Coast in 1471, 1498 India)
Whereas Venice could use the never lose a city UHV until xxxxAD(hold on to Constantinopel)

how about switching the two UHV's?

however, imo there is atm no chance whatsoever of Portugal achieveing that goal

We can put Venice and Portugal in competition for the first colony UHV (like the Greeks and Carthaginians in RFC). I think Venice expanding beyond the Mediterranean is more suitable UHV, they were the largest naval power, but fell behind quickly.

The ahistoric Portugal UHV used to be to beat Spain in gold. Now I guess is the Morocco, however, that isn't too hard.

 

[ezzlar]

Suggestion third ahistorical UHV for Byzantium:

- The old empire restored: Reconquer all original land held by the Byzantines at start in 15xx

Then you have resisted the Arabs, the Seljuks and the Ottomans by completing all the three UHVs.

 

[3Miro]

Suggestion third ahistorical UHV for Byzantium:

- The old empire restored: Reconquer all original land held by the Byzantines at start in 15xx

Then you have resisted the Arabs, the Seljuks and the Ottomans by completing all the three UHVs.

Add Sicily and/or something southern Italy to the picture and it is a much better UHV than the current one. I just want to make sure it is doable. Get the latest Beta (or the latest version form the svn) and try to do it. Hold as much land as you can in 1453. (15xx is a bad date, we need to tie the date to a historic event)

 

[urban]

Idea for fixing Austria. The hard one in my game has been 2: three vassals. Since we just learned that in order to vassalize, the master must have a city in the vassal's area (is this core or stable?) or vice versa, maybe removing this rule for Austria as part of their UP would make UHV 2 workable and historic. That way they could vassalize Spain and Netherlands without having a city in the area. Otherwise, I think you have to either vassalize Poland or Muscovy or both. The Balkans as a justification/time frame for UHV 2 doesn't make too much sense to me, as that could only really be Venice. How about 1506, which is the beginning of Hapsburg Spain?

 

[AbsintheRed]

Add Sicily and/or something southern Italy to the picture and it is a much better UHV than the current one. I just want to make sure it is doable. Get the latest Beta (or the latest version form the svn) and try to do it. Hold as much land as you can in 1453. (15xx is a bad date, we need to tie the date to a historic event)

Agreed. The ahistorical Byzantine UHV should be tied to 1453

 

[AbsintheRed]

Idea for fixing Austria. The hard one in my game has been 2: three vassals. Since we just learned that in order to vassalize, the master must have a city in the vassal's area (is this core or stable?) or vice versa, maybe removing this rule for Austria as part of their UP would make UHV 2 workable and historic. That way they could vassalize Spain and Netherlands without having a city in the area. Otherwise, I think you have to either vassalize Poland or Muscovy or both. The Balkans as a justification/time frame for UHV 2 doesn't make too much sense to me, as that could only really be Venice. How about 1506, which is the beginning of Hapsburg Spain?

This is a good idea
A better austrian UP which makes vassalization easier for them sounds nice
We may even put the number of required vassals back to 5, if they get a big boost on this

 

[urban]

We may even put the number of required vassals back to 5, if they get a big boost on this

What would the five historical be? Venice, Netherlands, Spain, and then what? Germany and Hungary? I feel that the last is hard to vassalize as opposed to just take over - many of my best cities are in the Carpathian basin, so I wouldn't want to lose command of them. Also, between Austria and barbs, Hungary collapsed pretty quickly after I spawned - I think I took two cities.

Also, if we were to change to 1506, we'd lose a couple hundred years in which to vassalisze folks.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yeah, I was thinking of Hungary
We should make that they won't collapse so easily
Austria shouldn't get all the cities in the Carpathian-basin with so little effort.
Hungary as a vassal to Austria is way closer historically (of course after losing a few cities to them for gameplay reasons)

Also, the 5th vassal could easily be ahistorical. Maybe Poland or even Germany (HRE)...

 

[urban]

I like that. Vassalized Hungary could perhaps be called "Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen", though that would mean that the "Civ name" box in the lower right would take up essentially all of my 13-inch laptop screen

 

[Steb]

Here are some ideas to improve Portugal's UHV. At the moment it's not bad, but it could be better.

Right now we have:
- settle islands and Morocco
- do not lose a city by 1640
- build 6 colonies

To make them more interesting, I suggest (the names of the UHVs are awful, I know):

- The Greatest Navigators: Be the first to build a colonial project (historical, if you exclude Vinland; same as Venice, but IMO it's ok).

- Do not lose a city can stay. It's good for discouraging too much involvement in European affairs - expansion must be very careful - and concentrate on colonies. However, waiting for 1640 is long, I'd change the date for 1578: the disastrous Battle of Alcácer Quibir, which gave rise to a dynastic crisis and the Iberian Union. (However, in my game, it didn't check in 1640, although if I lost a city it would indeed say I failed, so please verify this.)

- Cosmopolitan traders: Control (not trade for) a combined total of 20 of any of the following resources: Banana, Coffee, Cotton, Silk, Spices, Sugar, Tea, Whale, in 1668.

The date is when Portugal was recognised as independant by Spain following the end of the Union in 1640. Around that period, the empire started to lose colonies and decline, but the UHV asks for a still powerful trading empire at that point. I also thought it could be 1755 (Lisbon earthquake), but that's too late IMO. Anyway, the UHV encourages you to settle the islands (and could encourage settling Morocco if, for instance, a whale was moved from Lisbon to there) and found the most colonies, without asking for specific provinces. Stability will discourage getting these resources by settling all over Europe where they are available.

On another note, the feitoria should be moved: Economics come too late. As a unique building, it could be associated to an earlier tech like shipbuilding; or it could simply replace something like the drydock instead of the custom house.