micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
Of the three alternative UHV cases, I only support II (tried but failed). And what they tried to? Build an Eastern Mediterranean Empire...
Beta UHV discussion
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Of the three alternative UHV cases, I only support II (tried but failed). And what they tried to? Build an Eastern Mediterranean Empire...
Espionage
Investigate City is one of the earlier options available.
I'm not sure if you're thinking about the combined amount from all cities or having the most in a single city?
Is that your own truth, because historically that's completely false.
If you're referring to the 15th century, then yes there are factors that led to the decline, it seems. Forgive me i arent very knowledgeable in Venice's history xD i was refering to the last Turkish-Venetian war, where Venice's weakness in battle is clearly shown, that marked its decline, which is in 1714. But as the 3rd UHV, which is to do what the civ has never done, wouldnt it be nice to see Venice halt its own decline? And like i said before many times, a Venetian UHV that has to do with gold would be good, as this will encourage the Venice player to build the St Marco Basilica.
Byzantium, for example, started declining in 700AD or so. But its last UHV ends by 1500AD
so yeah you get my pointI think the main problem is that "don't decline or collapse" UHVs are only interesting as a game if there's actually a struggle for survival. The Byzantines are like that in this mod, since early on they have arabs and bulgarians spawning, then later seljuks invading and finally ottomans flipping cities. All the while trying to hold onto a large empire that is fairly unstable.
Playing Venice for hundreds of years you'll just have nothing to do. You can pretty much reach the stability limit for expansion before 1400 (and maybe earlier depending on what you take). Then you'd just be sitting around researching techs and getting gold. I think its a more interesting game to focus on the earlier expansion period.
Playing Venice for hundreds of years you'll just have nothing to do. You can pretty much reach the stability limit for expansion before 1400 (and maybe earlier depending on what you take). Then you'd just be sitting around researching techs and getting gold. I think its a more interesting game to focus on the earlier expansion period.
I'd suggest possibly adding gaining control(through trade or whatever means) over x amount of salt and possibly y amount of grain(wheat/barley) to the gaining luxuries UHV part of Venice.
I've tried to do some reading on the history of Venice and they apparently at one time had a monopoly over the salt trade in Italy. Another thing would be that they somewhat blackmailed other cities over access to grain in times of famine. They had large warehouses where they stored large amounts of grain which they had imported.
Being able to control whether or not other cities starve helps greatly during negotiations
http://www.pierrelaszlo.com/books/excerpts/17-salt-grain-of-life/34-venice
one example
I've tried to do some reading on the history of Venice and they apparently at one time had a monopoly over the salt trade in Italy. Another thing would be that they somewhat blackmailed other cities over access to grain in times of famine. They had large warehouses where they stored large amounts of grain which they had imported.
Being able to control whether or not other cities starve helps greatly during negotiations
http://www.pierrelaszlo.com/books/excerpts/17-salt-grain-of-life/34-venice
one example
I played another Venice game with an eye to some of the suggestions posted for UHV. I did most of my conquering early (pre 1300). This was one of those games where Rome collapsed and I took them over, so maybe things were a bit better than usual. In the end I actually controlled all the holy shrines.
I was voted for 2 crusades; the 1st arabia actually collapsed sometime after the crusade was rolling and my units spawned in anatolia which I guess was the closest allowed territory I had explored. I actually captured constantinople with that stack eventually.
I included a capital screenshot when I had (I think) every luxury on the map in 1473. The city screen must cap at 12 things, though, because I definitely had honey, olives, and coffee and you can't see them. I did skip crete bc I didn't want to win the regular UHV (after the fact I realized I could've just kept playing but whatever building a city in crete is easy). The last 200 years practically were spent consolidating territory and building far flung cities for resources, which tbh I don't think was that interesting. Perhaps 12 luxuries would be better than all?
It seemed to me the most difficult to get were gems and fur because they were in the north, coffee and cotton because they are only in a few spots you will have to fight another civ for most likely, and spices which are hidden way in the SW corner.
I was voted for 2 crusades; the 1st arabia actually collapsed sometime after the crusade was rolling and my units spawned in anatolia which I guess was the closest allowed territory I had explored. I actually captured constantinople with that stack eventually.
I included a capital screenshot when I had (I think) every luxury on the map in 1473. The city screen must cap at 12 things, though, because I definitely had honey, olives, and coffee and you can't see them. I did skip crete bc I didn't want to win the regular UHV (after the fact I realized I could've just kept playing but whatever building a city in crete is easy). The last 200 years practically were spent consolidating territory and building far flung cities for resources, which tbh I don't think was that interesting. Perhaps 12 luxuries would be better than all?
It seemed to me the most difficult to get were gems and fur because they were in the north, coffee and cotton because they are only in a few spots you will have to fight another civ for most likely, and spices which are hidden way in the SW corner.
Spoiler :
Okay this post is a little "bump" post but i think its necessary because after some testing with Venice i realized that these UHVs seems pretty fair to me:
1) Capture Constantinople by 1200
2) Control 10 luxury resources by 1450 (or control Levant trade resources, if that idea is implemented)
3) Get 10,000 gold by 1600
1) Capture Constantinople by 1200
2) Control 10 luxury resources by 1450 (or control Levant trade resources, if that idea is implemented)
3) Get 10,000 gold by 1600
Wessel V1
Emperor
Isn't that a little easy? I presume the player manages to get at least one corporation, which will easily nett quite a lot per turn. Because of the corporations, I believe that any "have X gold in turn Y" goal is not such a good idea, except for later civs that cannot get a corporation. It is not such a interesting goal however, Venice can do better than that!
In RFC it fitted Mali because of external threats and dependency of Europe, but Venice doesn't have these troubles. The other goals look fine to me though.
In RFC it fitted Mali because of external threats and dependency of Europe, but Venice doesn't have these troubles. The other goals look fine to me though.Isn't that a little easy? I presume the player manages to get at least one corporation, which will easily nett quite a lot per turn. Because of the corporations, I believe that any "have X gold in turn Y" goal is not such a good idea, except for later civs that cannot get a corporation. It is not such a interesting goal however, Venice can do better than that!
Yeah but Venice, being Venice, is historically a very money-motivated civ. They arent called the "Bank of Europe" for nothing. Even their UP has something to do with gold. And if you look at their actions throughout history, it all has to do with the accumulation of wealth. Another reason is Venice should have a reason to build the wonder St Marc Basilica, which well... gives gold. It all points to a gold UHV. Its okay if u guys dont want a "get X gold by turn Y" UHV, but it has to be something to do with gold. Thats my honest opinion. Since you think its a little easy, how about doubling the gold requirement?
Alternatively, we can have the 3rd UHV as:
3) Build the Marco Polo Embassy and St marco basilica
There has been no news about the "Levantine trade resource" idea, so its a little difficult to think of other possible UHVs as of this moment.
Well i like the idea of Venice capturing/settling the lands they hold in history. If that happens by "control zypern, crete etc." or by "control 10 luxury resources" and adding luxury to the locations of the venetian empire is ok too.
Or perhaps making a UHV like "get a specific amount of trade income", don't know if that technically doable.
"Get a specific amount of gold" is a little bit boring because you can just go for 100% gold and then its done if you start early enough, because why shouldn't you? No other UHV tells you to research and AI is too lazy to start war if you fall behind on important military techs.
"Be the richest in year ..." would be much better because you don't know how much gold you will need exactly and you have the competition to Genua.
(Sorry for my word choice, i had to use internet translaters
)
Or perhaps making a UHV like "get a specific amount of trade income", don't know if that technically doable.
"Get a specific amount of gold" is a little bit boring because you can just go for 100% gold and then its done if you start early enough, because why shouldn't you? No other UHV tells you to research and AI is too lazy to start war if you fall behind on important military techs.
"Be the richest in year ..." would be much better because you don't know how much gold you will need exactly and you have the competition to Genua.
(Sorry for my word choice, i had to use internet translaters
)Just to give you a small preview of the next version:
French UHV:
Have 2 cities in each of the Rhone Valley, West Germany, Northern Italy, south and north of the Pyrenees in 840 AD
Cordoba UHV:
Build the Alhambra, the Gardens of Al-Andalus, and La Mezquita by 1100AD.
Have more than 7000 Culture in 1100AD.
Spanish UHV:
Have the most Colonial Projects in 1600AD.
Venice UHV:
Conquer Constantinople by 1200AD.
Control the Dalmatian coast and Rhodos and have a city in Greece, Crete and Cyprus by 1500AD.
Build Marco Polo's Embassy and San Marco Basilica and control 10 Luxury resources by 1500AD.
If you are unhappy with the UHV i posted above or have any ideas how to improve these or other UHVs further, feel to post it. I'm looking forward to new ideas.
French UHV:
Have 2 cities in each of the Rhone Valley, West Germany, Northern Italy, south and north of the Pyrenees in 840 AD
Cordoba UHV:
Build the Alhambra, the Gardens of Al-Andalus, and La Mezquita by 1100AD.
Have more than 7000 Culture in 1100AD.
Spanish UHV:
Have the most Colonial Projects in 1600AD.
Venice UHV:
Conquer Constantinople by 1200AD.
Control the Dalmatian coast and Rhodos and have a city in Greece, Crete and Cyprus by 1500AD.
Build Marco Polo's Embassy and San Marco Basilica and control 10 Luxury resources by 1500AD.
If you are unhappy with the UHV i posted above or have any ideas how to improve these or other UHVs further, feel to post it. I'm looking forward to new ideas.
ezzlar
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,847
Just to give you a small preview of the next version:
French UHV:
Have 2 cities in each of the Rhone Valley, West Germany, Northern Italy, south and north of the Pyrenees in 840 AD
Cordoba UHV:
Build the Alhambra, the Gardens of Al-Andalus, and La Mezquita by 1100AD.
Have more than 7000 Culture in 1100AD.
Spanish UHV:
Have the most Colonial Projects in 1600AD.
Venice UHV:
Conquer Constantinople by 1200AD.
Control the Dalmatian coast and Rhodos and have a city in Greece, Crete and Cyprus by 1500AD.
Build Marco Polo's Embassy and San Marco Basilica and control 10 Luxury resources by 1500AD.
If you are unhappy with the UHV i posted above or have any ideas how to improve these or other UHVs further, feel to post it. I'm looking forward to new ideas.
Venice:
UHV 1: 1300 AD
UHV 2: 1200 AD
lol then shouldnt UHV 1 be ""CONTROL" instead of conquer?
merijn_v1
Black Belt
@ srpt
Welcome to RFCEurope. But would you put all comments in 1 post next time, please. It has no sense opening a new post for 2 lines. (no offense, just an advice)
Welcome to RFCEurope. But would you put all comments in 1 post next time, please. It has no sense opening a new post for 2 lines. (no offense, just an advice)
Here is my Bulgaria (monarch) report. Played til 1450 and got the 1st 2 goals but missed the 3rd goal by 9 faith points. That was with 8 cities, all with church, monastery and scriptorium and 2 with cathedral, belfry and reliquary, and 2 great prophets. The great prophets came from the round church which I built for the war weariness factor (constant war with my co-religionists Byzantium) and the Hagia Sophia which I captured. One more religious wonder like Palais des Papes would have done it. It took a few tries to get a decent start and I gave myself 2 orthodox missionaries. When the Ottomans spawned it looked like Hadrianopolis was going to flip to them, which would have lost me the game, but it didn't. Foreign relations were terrible, spent most of the game at war with most of europe, even the Rus who shared my religion and were the recipients of all the gifts I thought I could spare. Didn't actually fight any of them though, just the Byzantines and Ottomans. All in all a fantastic mod and a fun civ to play.
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