Bigger world sizes...Ok, how?

[Adam7Eight]

I'm interested to see what's gonna be fixed with this map generation issue...I certianly hope it gets patched and the problem with missing ocean tiles gets corrected. Until then, using larger maps with certain world types will remain pretty much pointless. I hope it corrects the load times as well.

Feet, I haven't. Maybe 10,000 is the maximum limit.

 

[Fenryial]

Maybe that is correct... If 10,000 is the max size. When I/We make these maps over 10,000 squares it kinda messes up the random map generator. I hope that is fixed. I hope they are aware and want to fix it. I love GIANT maps and want to see it work well. I just could never understand why a map just 1% larger than huge would take so long to load???

Fenryial

 

[Feet]

I have just made a flat map (no globe) of Great Britain and Ireland...

It has over 15000 plots on it (122 x 125 plots, or 30.5 x 31.25 grids if you swing that way).

 

[Fenryial]

I have also been playing making maps at 48-25. The random thing always makes them with no water for Pangea maps. I went in the ini and changed the map generator from 0 to other numbers to test. I found that 3 and 38 gave me a good map but about 15 others I tried were all bad. If I made a huge map (32x20) with map 3 it looks the same but with only 10000 plots compared to the 19200 with the other map size. Can anyone else try this and see if 3 and 38 gives a good GIANT map or is it just me. It still takes a while to generate. When I tried a 64x40 map it just crashes to desktop after 20min or so. But when Im on a large map thats 19200 plots it takes a long time to change or add land types for some reason. I can add things like units and resources no problem?

Hey Feet where can I get your map?

Thanks
Fenryial

 

[Feet]

It's just a tester really so I'll upload and post it in the Maps folder above, it's not very detailed either really. It only has Welsh and Scottish mountains as defining features. Apart from that it's completly flat grassland the rest of the way.

I haven't tried modifying it in the world builder, I just opened it so I can't report if it takes a long time to edit resources\terrain etc.

Look out for it in a bit.

 

[Feet]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138946

There you go Fenryial. Just for you.

 

[Fenryial]

Thanks alot, I got it

Fenryial

 

[Sirian]

You guys - I just discovered this totally screws up several map types - most notably Pangaea. Try your new map sizes with Pangaea - and you'll discover there's no ocean zones whatsoever.

This is because Pangaea uses "custom" grid sizes. Every map in the game that is not using the default grid sizes is hardcoded to whatever custom sizes are in place.

You guys are probably going about this the hard way. What I would recommend is for you to go for larger map sizes from the map script end, and not from the XML end.

For instance, for Pangaea, open the script in your Python editor (IDLE will do, and it's free with Python itself, which is also free -- www.python.org) and then save a copy under a new name, such as "Pangaea_Enormous.py". Then go to the map grids block of code, shown in the attachment, and edit the grids to whatever sizes you want.

If you are hungry for gigantinormous maps, you'll never play Duel and Tiny anyway, right? So no loss if you simply increase the numbers for all sizes. So put in the values you want, save the map, and launch. No XML work, no "loading of mods", just go to Custom game, choose your new script, set the number of players, map size, etc, and launch.

You will have to do this for every map that you want to play on altered sizes, but it's easier than messing with the XML when it comes to the map scripts. You don't even have to overwrite the default maps. You can make as many extra maps as you like, as long as each one has its own name.


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Here, I threw one together for you as a sample.

 

[Fenryial]

Ok Sirian, what file is that you edited and where is that one located. I will get the editor, thats not a problem.

Fen

 

[Sirian]

All the map scripts are in the PublicMaps folder.

 

[jpinard]

Thanks Sirian. I knew there'd come a day when I needed to learn something besides Notepad

Sirian, I do have to ask though. In increasing the size of our playable world, don't 6you think we need to adjust these values accordingly?

<Type>WORLDSIZE_HUGE</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_WORLD_HUGE</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_WORLD_HUGE_HELP</Help>
<iDefaultPlayers>11</iDefaultPlayers>
<iUnitNameModifier>0</iUnitNameModifier>
<iTargetNumCities>6</iTargetNumCities>
<iNumFreeBuildingBonuses>7</iNumFreeBuildingBonuses>
<iBuildingClassPrereqModifier>100</iBuildingClassPrereqModifier>
<iMaxConscriptModifier>75</iMaxConscriptModifier>
<iWarWearinessModifier>-50</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iGridWidth>32</iGridWidth>
<iGridHeight>20</iGridHeight>
<iTerrainGrainChange>1</iTerrainGrainChange>
<iFeatureGrainChange>1</iFeatureGrainChange>
<iResearchPercent>150</iResearchPercent>
<iTradeProfitPercent>30</iTradeProfitPercent>
<iDistanceMaintenancePercent>100</iDistanceMaintenancePercent>
<iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>15</iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>
<iNumCitiesAnarchyPercent>5</iNumCitiesAnarchyPercent>

 

[Sirian]

Thanks Sirian. I knew there'd come a day when I needed to learn something besides Notepad

Sirian, I do have to ask though. In increasing the size of our playable world, don't 6you think we need to adjust these values accordingly?

If you do, that will affect all of your maps. It's up to you.

 

[Fenryial]

I did what you gave us Sirian and it works great I got Python and edited my own .py files to how I liked and 100% of the time I got good maps now. HUGE but good. It did crash to desktop 5% of the time and I have 2gigs of ram with a AMD FX57 so I guess that doesnt matter much. If you know of a way to reset the high scores that would be great or the file to delete them. With your fix I can just edit the .py files and its much easier for BIG maps.
It still takes a while for a map to load but once it does the WB works fine, just takes long to change plots is all. But I can live with that.

Thanks again for your help
Fenryial

 

[jpinard]

If you do, that will affect all of your maps. It's up to you.

Actually I've made additional sizes so it doesn't change the Firaxis defaults. I just used the "huge" script as an example. So I'll ask again... for maps larger than huge... do you think its'necessary to adjust some of these variables (noted above) to compensate for the larger map size? Or do you think it's actually better ("larger than huge" map with "huge' map's settings)?

 

[Sirian]

Actually I've made additional sizes so it doesn't change the Firaxis defaults. I just used the "huge" script as an example. So I'll ask again... for maps larger than huge... do you think its'necessary to adjust some of these variables (noted above) to compensate for the larger map size? Or do you think it's actually better ("larger than huge" map with "huge' map's settings)?

There are some things that do not translate well to larger and larger maps. If you don't increase some of the math, the gameplay will be distorted. Some distortion is inevitable, though.

"Beyond Huge" maps are modders' territory now. You guys will have to sort out these questions on your own. Whatever is fun, that's a right answer. There may be more than one right answer available.


- Sirian

 

[Adam7Eight]

I've been gone a couple of days and it's good to come back to some good news.

Thanks a lot Sirian. I (we) appreciate the info.

 

[Adam7Eight]

After trying this new method out, I'm not entirely happy with the results. I've tested this out with custom Pangaea, Archipelago, Continents, Custom_Continents, and Tilted_Axis map styles and I'm getting crashes during loading 80% of the time, no joke. To be exact, it's crashed 10 out of 13 attempts.

The previous way of doing it may be more work and make things a little more jumbled but it's a lot more reliable for me. And since I've already done all the XML work anyways, I'm gonna stick with it.

 

[Fenryial]

Yes it does crash.. Ive cleaned the cache out and seems to be better chance but still happens. This was on a 52,32 map I did. It was like 25,000 plots or so. I did get a few to work! And each one did look right, but the crashing I dont like

Fenryial

 

[Sirian]

After trying this new method out, I'm not entirely happy with the results. I've tested this out with custom Pangaea, Archipelago, Continents, Custom_Continents, and Tilted_Axis map styles and I'm getting crashes during loading 80% of the time, no joke. To be exact, it's crashed 10 out of 13 attempts.

The previous way of doing it may be more work and make things a little more jumbled but it's a lot more reliable for me. And since I've already done all the XML work anyways, I'm gonna stick with it.

You probably have introduced Python errors in your editing. The syntax has to be exact.

In your config file, enable Python error messages. (You should do this for -any- kind of modding -- it would have told you where and why you were getting those "all land" maps, for instance.)

You are simply not going to affect map sizes on scripts (like Pangaea) that use custom grids via XML editing. One way or another, you have to touch Python to make those do different map sizes.

I recommend "Learning Python" by Lutz and Ascher as a textbook -- everything you need to know about Python programming to do about anything you want in Civ4.


- Sirian