Biggest bungle of the Obama admin? Operation Fast & Furious?

Ajidica said:
So several million dollars in weaponry to terrorist organizations for three hostages (we could have gotten more if we didn't blindly follow whatever Saddam said in the Iran-Iraq War and clearly take Saddam's side) is reasonable? I thought the basic rule of fighting terrorists is to keep them from getting weapons, not giving them weapons.
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I don't know... how much value do you place on an American life?
 
The root cause of all this nonsense is of course the fact that drugs are illegal.

No illegal drugs-->no illegal drug profits-->no money to buy weapons.

I'm also stunned to see that some people are completely in favor of illegal arms and drugs trafficking by the United States government, so long as Ronnie Raygun was in charge.
 
Patroklos said:
Your characterization of what this operation was has no resemblance to reality, it your use of the movie quote makes no sense. Law enforcement use marked contraband to trace illegal markets all the time. Especifically to link kingpins to those markets. Its done with drugs, money, and guns on a regular basis
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The BATFE had absolutely no intention of letting those guns leave the US nor did they have any means to "track" or "trace" them in Mexico even if they did.

The whole idea was to make a bust at the border on US soil during the transaction and maybe get some info from them about what who wanted the guns, etc. But it's not like they nab anyone important. Worth the effort and risks? Probably not.

So crappy plan, even crappier execution. Indefensible all around.
 
kochman said:
I don't consider bungles and impeachments in the same boat...
This is the biggest bungle, thus far, of his administration, meaning, the highest level failure of the Executive Branch, which he heads.
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No, I think by far the biggest "bungle" of his presidency is not closing Gitmo and providing affordable healthcare to all Americans. This pales by comparison, especially since he obviously had no direct involvement.

kochman said:
How about our current President? He's qualified? His resume was less than Sarah Palin's, which is terrifying, and he's blown it..
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Unlike Palin, Obama is extremely intelligent, well-educated, and quite competent. There is simply no comparison to her or even McCain. Palin should have never been governor. She was over her head as the mayor of a tiny town.
 
Obama's biggest problem is that he is a weak and passive leader. He needs to be bold, right now it appears John Boehner is occupying the Oval Office.
 
I wouldn't characterize being obnoxious like Boehner as a weakness. But that said, he could be a bit more forceful.
 
How by any reasonable standard does this qualify as "Obama's biggest bungle"? Kochman, you never cease to amaze me. This was planned and executed by ATF, using their own resources. Obama's not going to bother wasting his time looking over every poorly-planned sting operation that comes out of the ATF. And anyway, what's a few hundred automatic weapons to, as you admitted, drug organizations as powerful as a state? There must be hundreds of thousands of them owned by drug traffickers alone. So it's a) none of Obama's business, and b) barely even a mid-level operation.
 
Dreadnought said:
I would have thought by now it's too much work to defend Obama, and that most people would have given up.
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I would have thought by now it's too much work to attack Obama, and that most people would have given up.




This isn't about defending Obama at all. This is a frakup. But it isn't Obama's frakup.
 
Formaldehyde said:
No, I think by far the biggest "bungle" of his presidency is not closing Gitmo and providing affordable healthcare to all Americans. This pales by comparison, especially since he obviously had no direct involvement.

Unlike Palin, Obama is extremely intelligent, well-educated, and quite competent. There is simply no comparison to her or even McCain. Palin should have never been governor. She was over her head as the mayor of a tiny town.
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Well, broken campaign promises are expected, at this point. Especially from the guy not in charge (when facing an incumbent). They make all these wild promises, then they get behind the scenes and are given the WHOLE story...
He allegedly had no direct involvement, that is yet to be fully determined as this is still ongoing.

And, yes, Obama is obviously smarter than Palin... But he is still a failure.

Ergo Sum said:
How by any reasonable standard does this qualify as "Obama's biggest bungle"? Kochman, you never cease to amaze me. This was planned and executed by ATF, using their own resources. Obama's not going to bother wasting his time looking over every poorly-planned sting operation that comes out of the ATF. And anyway, what's a few hundred automatic weapons to, as you admitted, drug organizations as powerful as a state? There must be hundreds of thousands of them owned by drug traffickers alone. So it's a) none of Obama's business, and b) barely even a mid-level operation.
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1) The President is the head of the executive branch
2) The ATF is part of the DOJ, which is part of the executive branch, so therefore, it most certainly is his business
3) This was crossing international borders, with our direct neighbor, not a "mid-level operation"... if he didn't know, he should have, either way it means incompetence (either in selecting his staff or in his decision making)

Cutlass said:
I would have thought by now it's too much work to attack Obama, and that most people would have given up.
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You are saying that based on his terrible approval rating? Or because you know this site is heavily slanted toward Obama and this is not the appropriate venue?
 
kochman said:
And, yes, Obama is obviously smarter than Palin... But he is still a failure.
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If this is actually the "biggest bungle of the Obama administration", on that basis he is far more successful than any of the past Republican presidents whose bungles have been far worse.
 
Formaldehyde said:
If this is actually the "biggest bungle of the Obama administration", on that basis he is far more successful than any of the past Republican presidents whose bungles have been far worse.
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Bungles alone do not make or break a presidency...
 
kochman said:
I don't know... how much value do you place on an American life?
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Yeah look how well that worked out after the Soviet Afghan war.
 
Bestbank Tiger said:
Criticizing Obama is "too much work?" More like shooting fish in a barrel.
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But there are so many legitimate things that Obama might be criticized for, why put so much time and effort into making crap up out of nothing to do so?


You are saying that based on his terrible approval rating? Or because you know this site is heavily slanted toward Obama and this is not the appropriate venue?
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I'm saying that based on the fact that most of the attacks on Obama haven't got the slightest objective legitimacy to them. Why not concentrate on what the guy has done and/or failed to do, and not waste everyone's time and effort on the purely fictional crap?
 
Cutlass said:
I'm saying that based on the fact that most of the attacks on Obama haven't got the slightest objective legitimacy to them. Why not concentrate on what the guy has done and/or failed to do, and not waste everyone's time and effort on the purely fictional crap?
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Everybody already knows he can't fix the economy to save his life... repeating again and again, that is the waste of time.
 
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