Biggest complaint

[JosEPh_II]

Use a Map without "Old World" in it's set up to get a better chance.

Or if you continue to use that type map restart until you get a temperate (preferably northern hemisphere) start location. Apple has has a set latitude it will appear in. Also you will need a coastal region.

Or just forget about trying to be English and just roll with what comes your way. It's less stressful when you just let go.

I used to play America/ Iroquois/ Israel all the time. But I would generally end up with Sioux or Phoenician. So now I just pick the leader I like and see what unfolds for the culture/nation I end up with.

And there was a Big, Big, discussion when this was introduced into C2C. Maybe you missed it? It was a long time ago Mod wise.

JosEPh

 

[crazyewok]

It doesnt say anything of the sort in the FAQ that is stickyed.

And I am not saying the idea is bad only that it needs some tweaking because im not getting much choice and I thought this mod was about choice? And there seems to be zero sense or logic in the way the current system implemented.

Eg I build European culture in stone age but I still end up being shoe horned down the african route! You can say that is right. If I build European culture I should end up with a european country.

 

[crazyewok]

Or just forget about trying to be English and just roll with what comes your way. It's less stressful when you just let go.
JosEPh

I wouldnt be so botherd if when I build european culture at the start and end up as some european country like spain or germany ect

 

[dusckr87]

Eg I build European culture in stone age but I still end up being shoe horned down the african route! You can say that is right. If I build European culture I should end up with a european country.

I really, really, really find this hard to believe. You can't get the African cultures by starting with European without capturing cities from an African civ. Are you sure you are starting with an "European" civ?

 

[JosEPh_II]

I wouldnt be so botherd if when I build european culture at the start and end up as some european country like spain or germany ect

You Need to Understand This! You Can Not build European culture or Any Specific Culture with out the proper Resource requirements. ( And yes I used Capitals for emphasis cause this fact is not seeming to sink in.)You will Never end up as a vanilla BtS style Spain or Germany or whatever. You may get a city that with the resources met will produce a unit or Bldg that is specific to that Culture/Nation you are striving for.

For ex. if I play as David of Israel as my leader I may eventually get a city that allows the Isreali Culture to be researched. Then I will eventually be able to build the Macabe Swordsman In that city. But my Empire will Never be All Israeli, Never. Has not happened even Once since this method was implemented in any of my hundreds C2C test games as a tester.

JosEPh

 

[dusckr87]

( And yes I used Capitals for emphasis cause this fact is not seeming to sink in.)

Actually, I think he gets this part. He is saying that he wants to start as a generic European but ends up as African. That's the part I think is being exaggerated on his part, as that can't happen without capturing African culture.

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

If you really, really want to be certain of being able to be specifically "English", then use the GEM map, probably the one with preset civs. England is one of the preset ones. At least it was the last time I played that map. If you use any map other than one designed to represent Earth, then you really aren't recreating history anyway, so having a specific culture be exactly like history *shouldn't* be a big issue, IMHO.

All you get from the civ is the name (which you can change anyway) and the appearance of your units and cities. Everything else evolves over time.

 

[Alex Costa]

Perhaps we can have certain culture have some resources that can be used instead of another. For Example England requires Apples right? Why not use Iron if you don't have Apples. If I recall England in the Ancient times used to be in the center of a major Iron trade route and in fact many believe the Carthagenese used to trade iron there if I recall. Really I see no reason to get read of this system just perhaps have the possibility of getting a certain culture with more than one resource might solve the problem.

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

Eg I build European culture in stone age but I still end up being shoe horned down the african route! You can say that is right. If I build European culture I should end up with a european country.

When he says this, it seems to me that what he means is "Native Culture (European)". If that is what you are building in the Prehistoric Era (there is no "Stone Age" as such), then yes, you WILL end up as a European-based country. Which Culture Wonder you will be able to build is variable, as it depends on which resources you wind up with. As others have mentioned, the only way that you could ever possibly be able to build one of the African-based Culture Wonders is to have conquered some other city that had "Native Culture (African)" in it, which then becomes part of your nation.

If you are referring to (by saying you wind up African) some other aspect of the game aside from the Culture Wonders, please explain, and please be as specific as possible. Thanks.

 

[Alex Costa]

When he says this, it seems to me that what he means is "Native Culture (European)". If that is what you are building in the Prehistoric Era (there is no "Stone Age" as such), then yes, you WILL end up as a European-based country. Which Culture Wonder you will be able to build is variable, as it depends on which resources you wind up with. As others have mentioned, the only way that you could ever possibly be able to build one of the African-based Culture Wonders is to have conquered some other city that had "Native Culture (African)" in it, which then becomes part of your nation.

If you are referring to (by saying you wind up African) some other aspect of the game aside from the Culture Wonders, please explain, and please be as specific as possible. Thanks.

He might be referencing the fact he went up and became South African. But the only way to do that is conquer a city with Dutch Culture right and that is even way way later than the time period he referenced.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well you could also trade a civ with Dutch culture for the Dutch culture resource if you were a Native African culture.

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

Culture (Dutch) requires Native Culture (European), Forest, and Hemp. Culture (South African) requires Native Culture (African), Sea Lion & Seal, Imperialism, and Culture (Dutch). If he did take that route, he would have still had to conquer (or otherwise add) something either African or European to his empire. So it is possible, but the way it is stated above, he seems to think that he becomes African somehow without adding anything. Either the game he was playing was severely broken or he's not explaining himself well.

 

[Alex Costa]

Well you could also trade a civ with Dutch culture for the Dutch culture resource if you were a Native African culture.

Trading for culture resources is something I haven't experimented yet but won't it lead for game breaking?

 

[Alex Costa]

Culture (Dutch) requires Native Culture (European), Forest, and Hemp. Culture (South African) requires Native Culture (African), Sea Lion & Seal, Imperialism, and Culture (Dutch). If he did take that route, he would have still had to conquer (or otherwise add) something either African or European to his empire. So it is possible, but the way it is stated above, he seems to think that he becomes African somehow without adding anything. Either the game he was playing was severely broken or he's not explaining himself well.

I think it is likely the second. By the way has either of you already got Zulu culture in the early game with Mobutu? I got lucky and got it in one of my recent test games. Managed to conquer two civs the Polynesians and the Tupi with the combination of Impis and Ilkhandas with a couple of Stone Axeman and Atlatls added to the stack. It also was easy because they both ended like almost on top of one another.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well there is only 1 resource per culture so if they trade it then they cannot build those culture units (or buildings) anymore.

 

[dusckr87]

All you get from the civ is the name (which you can change anyway) and the appearance of your units and cities.

And leaders (ie, traits).

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

The leader (and it's traits) can be a part of the civ, but they really aren't, as one can select 'unrestricted leaders' and use any leader with any civ. This can lead to some ... interesting combinations.

However, there are two other things that I forgot about above that are determined by which civ you choose and not by anything that is found or learned. Your culture aura color and your flag design.

On that note, would it be possible for the civ's flag to start the game as just being their aura color, and change later on based on which Culture they choose to be? This could use a screen like the Religions have where you could select your nation's primary culture from the ones you have built the wonders for, and a symbol or pattern based on the chosen culture would replace the default flag.

 

[Alex Costa]

The leader (and it's traits) can be a part of the civ, but they really aren't, as one can select 'unrestricted leaders' and use any leader with any civ. This can lead to some ... interesting combinations.

However, there are two other things that I forgot about above that are determined by which civ you choose and not by anything that is found or learned. Your culture aura color and your flag design.

On that note, would it be possible for the civ's flag to start the game as just being their aura color, and change later on based on which Culture they choose to be? This could use a screen like the Religions have where you could select your nation's primary culture from the ones you have built the wonders for, and a symbol or pattern based on the chosen culture would replace the default flag.

That is a very neat idea. I totally am in favour of it.

 

[civfan613]

Wait, I've got an idea.
Why not make your civ's name choosable based on the current cultures you already have???
Maybe not automatic, but a special command (maybe even a Spy mission, hehehe), which would read what you can access MINUS what is already taken by the active AIs.
It's barely a list of a few dozens names to compare to, nothing demanding on the core.

Alternatively, another thing, I really dislike cultures to be bound to CITIES having RESOURCES (in their working area) - this is kinda stupid.
I would really rather have it based on generally having resources (or even having LOTS of resources, like you can force to have 10 Stone resources to unlock something African, just a stupid example) and having built specific buildings AND/OR units.
Maybe even making specific "culture" units (like you do with animals and their special buildings currently) that built their appropriate cultures.
Example:
Have min 10 Tobacco resources(eg.) available in the city AND build min 5 Vigvams(eg.) in your cities AND build an Indian Elder(eg.) in that city - who is the only unit to UNLOCK, say, Incan(eg.) culture by sacrificing himself in that same city (which also has the prereq culture too).

What do you say on BOTH ideas???

 

[WimpyTheWarrior]

Well there is only 1 resource per culture so if they trade it then they cannot build those culture units (or buildings) anymore.

I have been mulling an idea lately that I'll toss out; I don't have a strong opinion about it so I wonder what others think:

Should culture wonders allow for 2 (or more) to be built? If they were National Wonders and not World Wonders this would be achieved, and I think this would not be a difficult change.

The real-life logic is that while a physical wonder would only have one in the world, the cultural wonders, representing ideas, beliefs and behaviours of a subset of people in your Civ, could spread to other Civs without being removed from one Civ. History is full of instances of this; just one example would be the Jewish communities that resided in European, Middle-East, and Central Asian cities for centuries.

The in-game logic is to keep the sense of competition longer for culture-based building wonders. Just because you built the Zulu culture no longer means you have a lock on the Ikhanda wonder; you still better build the Ikhanda quickly because there could be other Zulu cultures out there that could build the [building] World Wonder, which is limited to 1.