Bismarck (Industrious-Deity Series)

[budweiser]

I didn't bulb anything. I used my scientist for academies which give both a whopping 50% boost, and a 4c per turn. However, because I wasn't using rep for so long(if t all), and since the 4c doesn't even double after 1K years, it may be mathematically correct to have gone after a quicker lib path. The problem is, near the middle I realize things were not going the way I wanted, which really devalued the use of my academies. But it's still hard to say, I'd have to run the numbers on it.

Not having an academy later can cost you around 16 cpt, not to mention the lost c earlier. And then there are other factors, like teching later on, as well as finding out you missed out on flipping a city earlier because you were just a tiny bit too short, etc. But if you can get to lib fast enough, to carry over the difference.... It's all hard to say because so many factors contribute.

In the game I played and sorta won last night, I was emmulating your marble strategy and I also had the GLib. After Liberalism, I had the culture switch turned on and my GLib city produced a scientist. That delayed the game, but the GLib itself no doubt advanced my rate of victory. It's probably not worth worrying about.

 

[obsolete]

I saw you had The Pyramids in queue in one screenshot. Are you still thinking about building them?

I would have liked to, but the pyramid hammers were converted into gold.

As for TGL, it gives great culture initially, then doubles after a few turns. Then the scientists it has also gives 4c after Sistine. So... it's quite a large boost even for culture vics... Besides, it lets you get to FS faster, which is 100% culture faster.

You can always try to dilute the pool with caste.

 

[budweiser]

One more thing about bulbs vs academies. I was able to bulb Philo and score a religion which gives a whole other set of culture buildings to use. But I was only on emperor you might not have that option on diety.

 

[obsolete]

I did have that option, but I purposely delayed it. With 6 cities and everyone on the same land-mass, it's not that hard to get the other religions spread to you anyhow, even with a high concentration of existing religions in a city.

 

[budweiser]

I like this discussion. I think marble is a sure game winner, moreso than stone.

What about the AP? It's a marble building. I would think it would be good to have that for the extra hammers it gives to your religious buildings. Theology also unlocks the Hagia Sofia, another marble building. For theology you need the 4 early religios techs, then you can bulb Theo with a GP.

"I found Rome a city of brick, I left it a city of Marble" - Augustus Casear

 

[aday]

What about the AP? It's a marble building. I would think it would be good to have that for the extra hammers it gives to your religious buildings.

I don't think the AP is sped with Marble, or any other resource.

 

[obsolete]

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Turn 100-110

Spoiler :

Boy things are really ramping up now.

The two warring factions ended up making peace. But soon afterward, Joao declares war on the English

Also, we completed the S. Paya in our second city, and also TGL in our capital.

And then, we revolt to Monarchy and Slavery.

Turn 110-120

Spoiler :

Someone under Jewdiasm built the AP. Take one guess…

My Paya city kept getting hit by a slavery revolt.

And I ended up popping a Merchant.

And then I popped an artist. Well, not really, that one came free from me being the first to research Music. Just another incentive to go for cultural

Joao also makes peace…

And I ended up finally founding my Beaver city. I had that settler standing for a very long time there, because I wanted to speed up my MUSIC tech for obvious reasons.

Turn 120-130

Spoiler :

Joao dows on Cyrus, haha.

We pop a scientist. Time for our Academy.

And best of all, we complete the S. Chapel. The only problem is we can’t take advantage of it just yet, as it’s not the right time. But we succeeded in denying it to Rammy and that’s what counts. Welp, time to get rid of the music tech now… those AI are such suckers they’ll give you a good penny for it even still.

Turn 130-140

Spoiler :

I get hit by a bunch of bad events like tornados and destroyed pastures.

But I’m busy working on building cathedrals. Hell, I got my 6-cities already, so the game is pretty much in the bag

I pop a priest.

And then Sury DoW’s on Cyrus. Haha.

Anyhow, I keep my neighbour pleased by doing a lot of nice tech deals with him. Seems everyone has someone else to hate, but as long as it’s not me I’m fine with it.

And I forgot to mention, we popped Iron in the fat cross. I was expecting that, since we popped no horses or copper.

Turn 140-150

Spoiler :

We give in to an Aesthetics demand from Sury.

Popped another Spy.

Had another event, this one was actually positive for once.

And then we really screwed someone over with a dreaded Barbarian Event. Ohhh, we had the Great wall, isn’t that right? Poor Joao is in for a nasty surprise now…

Turn 150-160

Spoiler :

Finally, Joao demands I switch to his religion (I was waiting for that). We now get accepted into his lovely brotherhood, protected for life. Time to turn on the S. Chapel powers

It’s also time to switch to Bur and Pacifism now.

SB then demanded some gold, I can’t remember if I gave it to him, or just told him to shove-it.

Turn 160-170

Spoiler :

We get another scientist. Time for another Academy, even though I’m going to turn off science funding pretty soon for good.

Sury DoW’s on two opponents at once.

I then finish off liberalism, so I switch to Free Speech. Not for the extra gold mind you… come to think of it, I HAVE NO cottages for any extra gold anyway. I just want that 100% culture boost for now.

And then to finally seal the fate of this game, stupid Sitting Bull decided to trade nationalism to me, knowing clear well I am in FS…. Which any ****** can see I’m ramping up to a culture win pretty soon.

You think they’d do something about it? Nope! It’s like they say.. Hey! I don’t think you are building enough culture. So here… take this tech and build the Hermitage just to be safe…

Thanks guys…

Turn 170-180

Spoiler :

We pop another artist. This one probably went right into my marble-city, since it will be boosted best by the hermitage. And of course, the hermitage is being built there because of the S. Paya culture

I think my capital can take quite good care of itself as it is.

Turn 180-190

Spoiler :

We pop another priest.

We continue spreading religions around. It seems Christianity just got spread to us so that’s currently on the list.

Ohhh, and some more hell has broken loose.

Turn 190-200

Spoiler :

Well not much to say… I am finishing off some final Cathedrals, and we popped another artist.

And what the hell, here we go stealing from our neighbour again…

 

[budweiser]

Anyhow, I keep my neighbour pleased by doing a lot of nice tech deals with him.

Finally, Joao demands I switch to his religion (I was waiting for that). We now get accepted into his lovely brotherhood, protected for life. Time to turn on the S. Chapel powers

I think this is the key to surviving long enough to win. Somehow avoid DOW with your immediate neighbor, then figure out who the 'big dog' is going to be and get him to accept you into the fold. But how?

 

[ABigCivFan]

Interesting that you go 100% culture @1140AD.

This is probably the weakest Deity human empire @1350 AD I have ever seen. Capital @ size 7 without a granary (corn only gave 1 ) ? Warrior/Axe Garrison, no contest in techs and no real troop production capacity. But bunch of Marble powered wonders in cities. At least you don't have to worry about happy and health problems or worker management. Given that no AIs touch you just press end turn another 150 times and the win is bagged.

Nonetheless, they say "a win is a win" and that is all that matters here.

 

[budweiser]

Interesting that you go 100% culture @1140AD.

What's good about it is that he can afford 100% with no cottages even.

 

[DMOC]

"Home" is building wealth.

 

[obsolete]

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Turn 200-210

Spoiler :

We pop another scientist.

And then Rammy finally gets one of his cities 99 turns away from Legendary. Looks like he is going to be a little bit too late again

Then SB demands a silly resource. What is it with him and his demands…


Turn 210-220

Spoiler :

We pop another scientist, and then use it for a golden age since there is no other use for it. We decide to take a free ride into Rep now.

I also get a ******** corp. event, and Sur. Decides to Dow on Churchill again.

Turn 220-230

Spoiler :

Cyrus makes peace with Joao.

We switch back to Hereditary rule for diplo reasons.

And we pop another GA.

Turn 230-240

Spoiler :

Rammy makes peace with whoever we was fighting with, and since he is the big bad pappa on the map, we agree to a defensive pact.

Now I can piss off who ever I want without reprecussions.

And then… Cyrus and Joao dow on Churchill again.

Turn 240-250

Spoiler :

We pop another priest.

And then we pop another GA also.

Not much else to say, except for a ******** plot-bonus. Looks like if this game were to go much further, we would end up flipping all of Joaos cities.

Turn 250-260

Spoiler :

Sury Dows on Churchhill AGAIN.

Then I hit a lame civil unrest event.

And then, we finish off with another GA that pops.

Turn 260-265

Spoiler :

Welp, on turn 265 it was all over for everyone. I finished off with a view of what was happening on the northern front. Our big pappa decided to DoW on some not-so-nice friends of ours, and as you can see, he was romping over them with a bunch of tanks, not to mention stacks of artillery and infantry, etc.

Well, what the hell did Churchhil expect… He was asking for it the whole time, and even his UU could not help him in the end.

 

[Freedom]

Nice game, please no culture with the final leader!

 

[Dirk1302]

Nice write-up and documented series.

I do like to point out a few weakness in these playing styles on high levels.

Wonder spam or going hardcore culture leaves you at the bottom of everything every game; power/research/population/production/score and etc. The top AIs often have more than 3 times your score post 1000AD.

In these kind of games, you are at complete mercy of the AIs and RNG since most AIs can declare at pleased. And when they do DOW it is game over due to non-existant military in your cities and or severe lagging in military techs. AIs are "stupid", but they still can DOW at pleased and invade you with a large stack of tanks against your longbows.

With these Cultural games, it seems the luck of getting early religions to spread to you is also very important, again you may not get more than 2 religions every game.

Edit: At these levels, unless you can get everyone friendly or get AIs fighting among themselves, I would suggest a player at least have the capacity to defend against an unexpected DOW before pursuing a peaceful victory condition.

These successful games posted seemed "easy" enough, but I doubt the true success rates on a random Deity game is very high.

I agree with this also with the part about good writing, there are enough situations where you don't get attacked early but an early dow and also a later dow isn't always avoidable and then this strat folds. Then again sometimes you do control the whole game diplomatically and apparently you can win fairly easy this way (or with the ap for that matter) if you grasp the mechanics. Never pursued a cultural win myself but these threads are a good guide.

 

[DMOC]

I think you should start doing some domination victories instead of cultural.

 

[obsolete]

To be honest, my capital always goes legendary, despite I never aim for it, or run Free-Speech, haha. It's getting sister cities to legendary that I didn't bother with.

Anyhow, I got a notice today that Snaaty is back, so it looks like we'll be doing some more non-stop Always-War bloodshed again. It's been many months since I last pulled out my trusty Sitting Bull out for battle, and so I'm happy to continue back on the Gods of War thread.

As for the last Wonder leader, (DeGaul) I really think I will finally take up that offer to just do the single city AP deal. I think for once and for all we can then prove the only thing that truely is over-powered is the AP. I've always contested the only overpowered elements are:

1. Religions Vic.
2. Holy War Declarations.

And since the two are from the one and the same object, that sort of sums it down to one thing. The A.P.

 

[Crusher1]

So much of a levels perceived difficulty directly corresponds to play style and VCs. Almost any competent Emperor player can beat Deity with cultural/ap wins if they stay away from bad luck - it's just not that difficult to do.

Winning by Domination/Conquest/Space require a much higher level of skill and understanding.

 

[Freedom]

^Agree with Crusher1. Maybe it's because you just make it look so easy, but it just doesn't seem all that impressive. And please do not finish your series with a cheesy diplo win. I am sure 95% of the forum would like to see a straight up dom/conquest/space race victory, if that matters to you .

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So much of a levels perceived difficulty directly corresponds to play style and VCs. Almost any competent Emperor player can beat Deity with cultural/ap wins if they stay away from bad luck - it's just not that difficult to do.

Winning by Domination/Conquest/Space require a much higher level of skill and understanding.

The AP is in a class by itself. You could probably create a bot that would succeed with it . Get theology first and avoid dow for 50-100 turns = win X_X.

Obs can/has done "straight up" space/domination with this strat, although it happens very late in the game as he 1/turns ICBMS or mech infantry in the capitol and such while holding the AI off VC's. It still works though.

 

[Kwibuss]

Despite it seeming cheap it's good nonetheless. Ofcourse the AI should be programmed to DOW you when your powerrating is that low and your culture is that high. Actually the AI should be programmed to DOW a human player which is nearing a culture/space win if that AI civ is pleased or lower and with a higher powerrating.
Actually they should not only do it vs the human, but also to other AI civs. This would make winning so much harder.