(BNW) Easy Deity Diplomatic Victory

[djcollin]

(My apologies if I'm doing this wrong, but I posted this in the BNW forum, but realized it may supposed to go in here.)

Hi,

I've enjoyed lurking and learning from the forum, so it's time I give back. As many of you have pointed out, BNW promotes peaceful play, so here is a strategy I use for easy diplomacy wins. Funny enough, the higher the difficulty, the quicker the win.

You can play as anyone, but Venice is best. The idea is to piggyback the other civilizations until the UN is built and then you ally the city states and buy your neighbor's votes for world leader. It's really easy and simple.

Prioritize improving resources to sell and getting trade routes to your neighbors. Sit back and save all the money you accumulate. It doesn't really matter what you build, but focus on buildings that increase your money. You won't need an army, because if an enemy approaches with troops, pay them to fight someone else.

The only thing I sometimes spend money on, besides paying AI to declare war on others, is research agreements. They aren't useful for yourself per-say, but the quicker the AI techs, the quicker the UN is reached.

It's not a big deal what you choose as social policies either, but liberty is nice with the free great merchants, and patronage will make your alliance with city states easier.

If you can fulfill a city state request, do it. Sending a trade route and acquiring a luxury are the easiest ones to fulfill.

When the UN is reached, pay attention for the countdown to the World Leader vote, so you can send diplomats to the AI. If you time it right, you can have diplomats in AI capitals when the World Leader countdown begins, buy their votes, then move diplomats to other AI capitals, and buy their votes. On the turn before the World Leader vote, solidify your city state alliances buy trading any remaining gpt for cash, and giving all remaining cash to city-states.

I've had success with this strategy on every map type and size, except duel, and with any civilization.

This strategy may seem boring, but why make a victory hard when there is an easy way?

 

[Cromagnus]

(My apologies if I'm doing this wrong, but I posted this in the BNW forum, but realized it may supposed to go in here.)

Hi,

I've enjoyed lurking and learning from the forum, so it's time I give back. As many of you have pointed out, BNW promotes peaceful play, so here is a strategy I use for easy diplomacy wins. Funny enough, the higher the difficulty, the quicker the win.

You can play as anyone, but Venice is best. The idea is to piggyback the other civilizations until the UN is built and then you ally the city states and buy your neighbor's votes for world leader. It's really easy and simple.

Prioritize improving resources to sell and getting trade routes to your neighbors. Sit back and save all the money you accumulate. It doesn't really matter what you build, but focus on buildings that increase your money. You won't need an army, because if an enemy approaches with troops, pay them to fight someone else.

The only thing I sometimes spend money on, besides paying AI to declare war on others, is research agreements. They aren't useful for yourself per-say, but the quicker the AI techs, the quicker the UN is reached.

It's not a big deal what you choose as social policies either, but liberty is nice with the free great merchants, and patronage will make your alliance with city states easier.

If you can fulfill a city state request, do it. Sending a trade route and acquiring a luxury are the easiest ones to fulfill.

When the UN is reached, pay attention for the countdown to the World Leader vote, so you can send diplomats to the AI. If you time it right, you can have diplomats in AI capitals when the World Leader countdown begins, buy their votes, then move diplomats to other AI capitals, and buy their votes. On the turn before the World Leader vote, solidify your city state alliances buy trading any remaining gpt for cash, and giving all remaining cash to city-states.

I've had success with this strategy on every map type and size, except duel, and with any civilization.

This strategy may seem boring, but why make a victory hard when there is an easy way?

Nice guide. However, this to me is a perfect illustration of what's wrong with Diplomatic Victory (and Deity) in BNW. It shouldn't be possible to sit back and chillax your way to a win on Deity. A strategy guide this simplistic shouldn't result in victory. Maybe it's not as simple as hitting "next turn" over and over, but man, it's still too easy. Hopefully, the new AI aggression should at least make this more difficult.

 

[djcollin]

Thanks!

Yea, you're right, but it is what it is, and I think it's kinda accurate in the real world. Money makes the world go 'round. And also, if you make yourself useful to other AI's, then they have reason to like you and keep you around. Trading them resources, sending them caravans, signing research agreements, staying out of their political affairs, not aggressively settling or building wonders... being an all-around good playmate.

I'm kinda glad there's a way to win by playing nice.

 

[Acken]

These are also necessary for all other victory conditions but with a ton of other stuff to take care of. DV is just the victory condition you take when you can't win anything else or if you're lazy :/ It says a lot when people don't care about it in Deity Challenges etc.
As sad as it is, that's just how it is.

Especially when some AI have like 10K gold in bank, its just stupid they let you win that way.

We'll see if the patch make it a bit better. Didn't really see this agressive behavior yet though.

 

[Doc Skillz]

My last two wins on Emporer difficulty were DV's and truthfully it was very cheesy and boring. The first as at T330 and the second at T300 - and while I did improve by thirty turns it was far less engaging. Racing to build a massive income, beelining to a comfortable rate of science and pushing toward printing press while rushing to meet everyone was not entirely fun. The T330 victory was completed with the Shoshone and the T300 victory was completed with the Americans.

While I do appreciate playing peaceful and tall...these victories felt hollow. I am continuing to improve the speed at which I meet victory conditions, but DV is the one condition I believe encourages a very passive play style that may not be as rewarding on the higher difficulty settings.

I am looking forward to mastering the other victory conditions with a variety of CIV's...and to me DomV's just look to be more fun. I don't know about you, but military conquest is a bit more engaging than clicking next turn, buying out votes and waiting for the World Leader proposal.

 

[djcollin]

I understand the desire to get a high score and feel like you really outdid your opponents in the game, but don't forget the story of the game. You are a leader of a civilization of people. Though it is just a game, one thing to consider is how many people will you send to die from your civilization and how many people will you kill from other civilizations in order to soothe the ego. Again I know it's a game, but considering ethics adds another level of depth to the game IMO.

 

[Doc Skillz]

Well, the long and the short of it is that I know that I absolutely can get a DV. I know that all it takes is managing happiness and income; then using this income/happiness to purchase favorable relations with AI's and CS's. However, since I wish to master the other victory conditions it is not my preferred method for achieving victory in CIV5.

While I appreciate this VC from the standpoint that it has connotations to simulated diplomacy in the real world, I find it a bit droll. But...to each their own. If this is the way you like to play and the way in which you derive the most enjoyment from your gaming experience, then more power to you!

 

[Fire0rb]

Well with the Fall patch you need a lot more Votes to win the world leader thingy.

When i remember correctly you need now every CS AND some of the AI votes which makes it not a lot harder but its not too easy (before you may just win via DV because you have the 15 CS allies).

Lets see if the changes will influence the problem.

 

[joshua43214]

Well with the Fall patch you need a lot more Votes to win the world leader thingy.

When i remember correctly you need now every CS AND some of the AI votes which makes it not a lot harder but its not too easy (before you may just win via DV because you have the 15 CS allies).

Lets see if the changes will influence the problem.

It will be just as easy, you will just have to do on purpose now rather by accident.
All you need to do is put a diplomat in every capitol and you win with globalization assuming you are already the host

 

[Fire0rb]

Well due to the consulate changes as well, its not THAT easy anymore to ally all of the CS with ease on Deity.
But you are right thats its still quiet easy achievable but you need to focus on it rather than an easy option to win the game.

Still i think the consulate change (which is not optimal but solves the current problem with it being imba) is far more important on higher levels because if you dont have a superior starting position or a good game flow it will be hard without being freinds will all the CS to get your economy going.

I know its only 5 influence but the bonus you get from the befriending was so huge that it broke the game essentially.

 

[Cromagnus]

I understand the desire to get a high score and feel like you really outdid your opponents in the game, but don't forget the story of the game. You are a leader of a civilization of people. Though it is just a game, one thing to consider is how many people will you send to die from your civilization and how many people will you kill from other civilizations in order to soothe the ego. Again I know it's a game, but considering ethics adds another level of depth to the game IMO.

My point is that it should not be so easy on Deity to win, especially when your AI opponents have 20k gold in the bank. They should be contesting your DV heavily at a minimum. The new change to spend more money on units should help, but only for warlike civs. The AI doesn't try hard enough to contest victory when you're close.

Unfortunately, some of that can't be fixed without ruining the AI flavors. I don't think Ethiopia should DoW your CS allies when you're close to DV, but I DO think they should be spending money to buy allies, and be *much* more reluctant to give you a loan!

If they fixed those two things, it would make DV way less cheese.

EDIT: Also they should be all-out attempting coups on whoever is closest to a DV. /shrug

 

[Cromagnus]

Well due to the consulate changes as well, its not THAT easy anymore to ally all of the CS with ease on Deity.
But you are right thats its still quiet easy achievable but you need to focus on it rather than an easy option to win the game.

Still i think the consulate change (which is not optimal but solves the current problem with it being imba) is far more important on higher levels because if you dont have a superior starting position or a good game flow it will be hard without being freinds will all the CS to get your economy going.

I know its only 5 influence but the bonus you get from the befriending was so huge that it broke the game essentially.

Well, remember, the change only reduces your influence by 5/civ. You have to get to Ally anyway, so now you need +35 instead of +30. And realistically, you need more than 60 to maintain ally status because of competition. So achieving ally status isn't *THAT* much harder because of a -5 nerf.

And, losing all the mid-game culture, faith, happiness and growth hurts every victory condition equally, so it wasn't specifically a nerf to DV.

I do think post-patch it'll be more balanced. The extra votes needed to win virtually ensures that you can't win on the first attempt without taking extra measures. (Diplomats, Forbidden Palace, first to Printing Press, etc. etc.)

Plus, it'll be much harder to win "by accident" when going for other VCs.

 

[Asgrahim]

Diplpomatic victory in BNW is incredibly simple no matter the difficulty. All you need is Patronage, the Forbidden Palace (not needed but makes it go smoother) and loads of gold by any means necessary.

 

[Acken]

Well, remember, the change only reduces your influence by 5/civ. You have to get to Ally anyway, so now you need +35 instead of +30. And realistically, you need more than 60 to maintain ally status because of competition. So achieving ally status isn't *THAT* much harder because of a -5 nerf.

And, losing all the mid-game culture, faith, happiness and growth hurts every victory condition equally, so it wasn't specifically a nerf to DV.

I do think post-patch it'll be more balanced. The extra votes needed to win virtually ensures that you can't win on the first attempt without taking extra measures. (Diplomats, Forbidden Palace, first to Printing Press, etc. etc.)

Plus, it'll be much harder to win "by accident" when going for other VCs.

The only way to make DV hard is if the AI gets programmed to actually fight for it. Runaways with thousands of gold shouldn't let you win this.

 

[Danei]

Diplomatic victory always feels a little cheesy/unsatisfying to me, if only because it takes place in an abstract little menu that's sort of separate from the actual game. It's also disproportionately easy compared to the others, and ought to be a little bit more difficult.

Personally, I wouldn't really mind if diplomatic victory were removed and replaced with 'economic victory' or something, hopefully with more engaging mechanics, but sufficiently different from the cultural rework (I know, it's not an easy task). Then they wouldn't have to worry about trying to make it not depend almost entirely on your income (which they are yet to successfully do).

 

[djcollin]

When I say this is an easy strategy, I mean that it is easy if you have the discipline to resist temptations of the game. When you begin accruing a large amount of money, there is a temptation to buy an army, a building, a neighbors city, or other frivolous spending. I think this thread has shown that their is a temptation to seek a fight in the game; it's almost masochistic (or sadistic if you consider the lives in the game). But that is the way almost all people play and almost all the AI play. They seek more of everything; land, units, luxuries, and glory. It's not as easy as you think to purposely set out to avoid all of these temptations and unify the world through peaceful means.

 

[Danei]

They seek more of everything; land, units, luxuries, and glory. It's not as easy as you think to purposely set out to avoid all of these temptations and unify the world through peaceful means.

Uh... I mean, if you're mainly in it for the immersive simulation experience, sure. And there's nothing wrong with playing that way. But when it comes to people who play it more like a strategy game and are trying to win, it's not particularly hard to resist the temptation of doing things other than what you believe is the best thing to do at the time.
And it's annoying to those players when one VC is noticeably easier than all the others. We could always disable that VC, but that's taking away a part of the game that we might like in concept, without liking the balance of it, WRT other VCs. And that's a shame. So it's better if they fix it!

 

[stormtrooper412]

The only way for an AI not to let that happen is to go into a Cold War kind of thing, where there will be no real firing on either side, but CSs that are not your allies will be Peace Blocked and there's just nothing you can do about that and MoV can't flip those under any circumstances. The AI will not accept peace because if you're playing Venice, you'll always be perceived as a weaksauce.

That however, can only happen if you're just being a flat out douche to everyone so they get fed up, if you play nice with them but play them against each other, yeah this goes