BNW patch en route

I'm kind of curious, what will denouncing do for a human player that an actual in game message can't do? The denouncing mechanic seems to be there to allow the AI to mimic actual real human reactions. Since you're all already human where is the advantage? The only thing I can think of is mixed human/AI MP games, do people even do that?
Yes, they do, that's why people complain about the MP AI.

The one solid gameplay effect of denouncing is that it withdraws/expels embassies.

PS: Oh yeah, and cancels DoF as well, and as lump sum gold and RA require DoF, that has solid gameplay effects of its own.
 
Well, for me, it's purely flavour-based idea, BUT there is something to it if players play with other AI players, AI seems to recognize if a human denounces another AI, and if they are friendly, they coudl end up denouncing the said AI.

I.e Portugal, Poland and Zulu are in the game.
Portgual denounces Zulu, Portugal has a DOF with Poland, and Poland may end up denouncing in Zulu

So in other words, allowing Denoucements in a game with working AI, it could hinder the other Human's diplomatic options.

But they still haven't fixed the Player 1 Trading bug (if Player 1 initates a trading with another player NO other PLAYERS can initiate ANY trading until the trade is accepted/rejected).

Half of the notifications in Hotseat seem to bem issing (important ones as well, like who founded Pantheons, Religions, City State alliances, Era advancements, etc.)

I also noticed they still haven't brought back the "Civ X has been conquered/City State X has been conquered")
 
Ah never thought about the DoF cancelling. I didn't think people played mixed AI/human MP games either. Thanks to both of you for the info.
 
Ah never thought about the DoF cancelling. I didn't think people played mixed AI/human MP games either. Thanks to both of you for the info.

Yes there are a group of people that like to play coop games against the AI. But for most of the online MP community we never play with AI, they are stupid and after playing real people most of us can never go back to the AI.

CS
 
Statue of Zeus:
Cost: 555
Culture: +1
Requires Honor. All units gain +15% combat strength when attacking cities.

If it gives GP point it's not shown in game.

The Army on the other hand does say 1 GA though, but when I checked the build tooltip, I'm 100% sure I choose not to build it because it had no GP point. TA has never held my interest, it was a movement of "I got nothing better to do", maybe the tooltip was for a national wonder.


I stand corrected, should have checked in game or the database here. Stupid civ wiki site.
 
Ah never thought about the DoF cancelling. I didn't think people played mixed AI/human MP games either. Thanks to both of you for the info.

I have a small group of friends who I play CiV with, and we always play games with the AI involved. It gives us someone else to compete with (easy xp for troops) plus it just generally fills the map more and makes the game more interesting.

Admittedly we're not hardcore players in the sense that we have defined tactics and whatnot, we just play for fun. We do tend to :nuke: Sejong though if he gets close to tech victory :D. I would assume that the main multiplayers on the community don't play with AI, but for those of us on LANs / private games we have AI on all the time if there's space on the map for them.

Denouncing other human players would also be different, as the AI interprets that action and responds accordingly (i.e. if I want to make friends with an AI I could just denounce someone they dislike and I get + relationship with them).

- Micael
 
I've now played most of a game (up to mid-19th Century) with the new patch.

- I was impressed in my first two games with the AI's coordinated attacks on my cities. This was, however, on Pangea maps, and in the early game where the AI is arguably already fairly good at city attacks.

On my current game, which rolled a continents/islands map (not sure which - I always play on Shuffle. Normally continents only has two or three major landmasses, but there are more here, most bigger than I'm used to on island maps) naval warfare is obviously more important - and if anything the AI is worse than I'm used to post-G&K. Civs still have little trouble capturing cities on their own landmass (China took Monaco early, I lost Samarqand - given to me as a peace offering, so without units nearby to defend - and later Hsia on the same island to Ottoman and Polynesian forces already there), but China in particular was truly bizarre.

In several attacks on my continent, with a reasonable mix of naval melee and ranged units, Wu just parked outside my cities ... and then decided to sail round the island being picked off as she went. Land forces did the same after disembarking (which, given that this was in the gunpowder era, did give me a War of Independence feeling as my minutemen partisans sniped passing Chinese units...) Other naval assaults have been small and poorly-supported, as from Elizabeth on Seattle. I've noticed that, while the AI can take other AI cities from the sea, it's generally slow to do so, and some behaviour is very odd. For instance, Elizabeth declared war on Lisbon, parked Ships of the Line outside it, and just kept losing them.

It got worse in the modern era - Sully finally got bombers, but although he also had plenty of ironclads he didn't coordinate them, and so didn't attack with sufficient force to take the city, giving my own bombers time to destroy his forces. And this is the AI that, shortly after the G&K release, launched the most effective modern era combined naval assault I've seen from a Civ AI.

- There seem to be some strange new bugs with diplomacy. A declaration of war now doesn't seem to cancel a DoF if backstabbing is involved (which is happening a lot in this game with my heavy use of defensive pacts), so I've had civs simultaneously described as being friends with and at war with me or other civs, and even get the notification that a DoF has ended and needs renewal while I'm at war with the civ in question.

- There's an annoying new issue with defensive pacts (as well as the pre-existing one that they often seem to cancel before the 10 turn limit is up even if neither civ involved has started or become involved in any new wars). The system seems to let you have multiple DPs at once with the same civ (up to 3 apparently), and they will typically all cancel together. Since there's still no way of tracking the current status of a DP other than clicking the diplo menu and seeing if there's an option to initiate one, this happens quite a lot.

- Some less extreme variant of the scrolling bug appears to have returned.

- There's another returning, in this case minor, bug when attacking cities - you can often see the city's final (post-attack) health when the attack starts, the 'correct' value only being reset when the first attack resolves. This is similar to the longstanding bug with planes that showed their final health as they started their attack run; this actually seemed to have been fixed, but now I'm again seeing the plane's final health before the animation finishes.
 
I've now played most of a game (up to mid-19th Century) with the new patch.

- I was impressed in my first two games with the AI's coordinated attacks on my cities. This was, however, on Pangea maps, and in the early game where the AI is arguably already fairly good at city attacks.

On my current game, which rolled a continents/islands map (not sure which - I always play on Shuffle. Normally continents only has two or three major landmasses, but there are more here, most bigger than I'm used to on island maps) naval warfare is obviously more important - and if anything the AI is worse than I'm used to post-G&K. Civs still have little trouble capturing cities on their own landmass (China took Monaco early, I lost Samarqand - given to me as a peace offering, so without units nearby to defend - and later Hsia on the same island to Ottoman and Polynesian forces already there), but China in particular was truly bizarre.

In several attacks on my continent, with a reasonable mix of naval melee and ranged units, Wu just parked outside my cities ... and then decided to sail round the island being picked off as she went. Land forces did the same after disembarking (which, given that this was in the gunpowder era, did give me a War of Independence feeling as my minutemen partisans sniped passing Chinese units...) Other naval assaults have been small and poorly-supported, as from Elizabeth on Seattle. I've noticed that, while the AI can take other AI cities from the sea, it's generally slow to do so, and some behaviour is very odd. For instance, Elizabeth declared war on Lisbon, parked Ships of the Line outside it, and just kept losing them.

It got worse in the modern era - Sully finally got bombers, but although he also had plenty of ironclads he didn't coordinate them, and so didn't attack with sufficient force to take the city, giving my own bombers time to destroy his forces. And this is the AI that, shortly after the G&K release, launched the most effective modern era combined naval assault I've seen from a Civ AI.

- There seem to be some strange new bugs with diplomacy. A declaration of war now doesn't seem to cancel a DoF if backstabbing is involved (which is happening a lot in this game with my heavy use of defensive pacts), so I've had civs simultaneously described as being friends with and at war with me or other civs, and even get the notification that a DoF has ended and needs renewal while I'm at war with the civ in question.

- There's an annoying new issue with defensive pacts (as well as the pre-existing one that they often seem to cancel before the 10 turn limit is up even if neither civ involved has started or become involved in any new wars). The system seems to let you have multiple DPs at once with the same civ (up to 3 apparently), and they will typically all cancel together. Since there's still no way of tracking the current status of a DP other than clicking the diplo menu and seeing if there's an option to initiate one, this happens quite a lot.

- Some less extreme variant of the scrolling bug appears to have returned.

- There's another returning, in this case minor, bug when attacking cities - you can often see the city's final (post-attack) health when the attack starts, the 'correct' value only being reset when the first attack resolves. This is similar to the longstanding bug with planes that showed their final health as they started their attack run; this actually seemed to have been fixed, but now I'm again seeing the plane's final health before the animation finishes.

Is this a pre-patch save, or one started after the release of the patch?
 
I've now played most of a game (up to mid-19th Century) with the new patch.

In several attacks on my continent, with a reasonable mix of naval melee and ranged units, Wu just parked outside my cities ... and then decided to sail round the island being picked off as she went.... Elizabeth declared war on Lisbon, parked Ships of the Line outside it, and just kept losing them.

I've played most of 4 new post-patch games on Immortal, and agree that the AI doesn't seem ANY better at naval combat. I also haven't noticed a significant improvement in overland tactics.

[/QUOTE]There seem to be some strange new bugs with diplomacy. A declaration of war now doesn't seem to cancel a DoF if backstabbing is involved (which is happening a lot in this game with my heavy use of defensive pacts), so I've had civs simultaneously described as being friends with and at war with me or other civs, and even get the notification that a DoF has ended and needs renewal while I'm at war with the civ in question.[/QUOTE]

The non-canceled DOF is not a new bug.
 
Possible bug: city sounds seem to disappear later in the game. From ancient - industrial they were there, but now in the atomic era I hear nothing. Small, non-gameplay affecting bug. Just wanted to see if anyone has the same problem.
 
I've played a quick game on a duel map (Emperor) Ethiopia VS Huns.

Now duel maps tend to be a lot easier and Attila is usually an idiot, but I completely slaughtered him.

Attila tends to postpone his expansion to build an early army and conquer nearby civs. However even though I placed one of my city about 10 tiles away from his capital he waited and waited missing his opportunity. He could have attacked a CS instead but he didn't do that either.

Once he finally DoW on me I was already too powerful for him to stand a chance. Sending his battering rams first against my longswordmen and Xbowmen didn't seem like the brightest idea to me.

I am however positively impressed by the new graphic adjustments and I like the new civilian icons for modern era, even though I feel like they added something that should have been there since the beginning.

I haven't noticed any particular bug and the game does seem faster and smoother.
 
I have noticed an aggressive AI as well. At least in the sense that Atilla and the other aggressive AI's seem more aggressive.

The thing that makes the game harder is that it seems the AI has more units than I, I am attributing this to the fact they are spending early gold better. (At all). (Somehow I believe Thal is involved in that).

So more units and slightly better positioning makes for an AI that can drop a city pretty quickly.
 
I was impressed in my first two games with the AI's coordinated attacks on my cities. This was, however, on Pangea maps, and in the early game where the AI is arguably already fairly good at city attacks.

In two king games I've lost one city. First game was incredibly peaceful with a single war in which I was DOW'd by an overstretched Mongolia. Second game the DOW came from Greece, and I blocked their access to the rest of the continent. He brought everything he had and took my city with ease and had me concerned for my capitol. Haven't had that happen to me on King for a long time.

<Odd AI combat>

Mongolia had a CS surrounded with Keishiks. 3 of the 4 units just stayed in place. Not attacking and not being attacked. Only 1 of them fired on the city. This lasted for at least 10 turns of combat. Eventually they took the CS, but I lost diplo status so didn't see how. But it took a looong time. I've seen troops shuffling in the past, but this was ranged units in position to fire and not doing it.



There's another returning, in this case minor, bug when attacking cities - you can often see the city's final (post-attack) health when the attack starts, the 'correct' value only being reset when the first attack resolves. This is similar to the longstanding bug with planes that showed their final health as they started their attack run; this actually seemed to have been fixed, but now I'm again seeing the plane's final health before the animation finishes.

Saw this on units as well. Early game was fine, but once I had infantry and tanks on the field I would see the end result of an attack on the unit before as soon as the attack occurred.


Another issue I'm a little fuzzy on is disappearing units. My tendency is to call it user error, but I haven't lost track of units actively engaged in combat before. In one case a tank either died with no notification or it just disappeared. In another case I lost 1 of two mobile artillery units. I only had 2 and they were critical to my attack. I thought maybe it died without notification, but it came back on the next turn asking for orders.
 
I've seen troops shuffling in the past, but this was ranged units in position to fire and not doing it.

We've all seen this happen, and it always depresses me. I can't even tell whether it's a haphazard bug, or the unintended result of conflicting imperatives. Common sense says it should never, ever happen. I wish it would be addressed, even at the price of some other mole popping up, because it is so downright hopeless.
 
Oh yeah, city list! Is the city list accessible? What are Brazil's cities?

Brazil's cities:
Spoiler :
Code:
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_RIO_DE_JANEIRO">
			<Text>Rio de Janeiro</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SAO_PAULO">
			<Text>Sao Paulo</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SALVADOR">
			<Text>Salvador</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BRASILIA">
			<Text>Brasilia</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FORTALEZA">
			<Text>Fortaleza</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BELO_HORIZONTE">
			<Text>Belo Horizonte</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MANAUS">
			<Text>Manaus</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CURITIBA">
			<Text>Curitiba</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_RECIFE">
			<Text>Recife </Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PORTO_ALEGRE">
			<Text>Porto Alegre</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BELEM">
			<Text>Belem</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_GOIANIA">
			<Text>Goiania</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_GUARULHOS">
			<Text>Guarulhos</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CAMPINAS">
			<Text>Campinas</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SAO_LUIS">
			<Text>Sao Luis</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MACEIO">
			<Text>Maceio</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_DUQUE_DE_CAXIAS">
			<Text>Duque de Caxias</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NATAL">
			<Text>Natal</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CAMPO_GRANDE">
			<Text>Campo Grande</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TERESINA">
			<Text>Teresina</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FLORIANOPOLIS">
			<Text>Florianopolis</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NOVA_IGUACU">
			<Text>Nova Iguacu</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SAO_BERNARDO_DO_CAMPO">
			<Text>Sao Bernardo do Campo</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_JOAO_PESSOA">
			<Text>Joao Pessoa</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_OSASCO">
			<Text>Osasco</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_JABOATAO_DOS_GUARARAPES">
			<Text>Jaboatao dos Guararapes</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SAO_JOSE_DOS_CAMPOS">
			<Text>Sao Jose dos Campos</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CONTAGEM">
			<Text>Contagem</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_UBERLANDIA">
			<Text>Uberlandia</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ARACAJU">
			<Text>Aracaju</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CUIABA">
			<Text>Cuiaba</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FEIRA_DE_SANTANA">
			<Text>Feira de Santana</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_JUIZ_DE_FORA">
			<Text>Juiz de Fora</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_JOINVILLE">
			<Text>Joinville</Text>
		</Row>
		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MACAPA">
			<Text>Macapa</Text>
		</Row>

There was a thread somewhere already about this, though - look around! :)
 
The AI isn't more aggressive, the AI when at war and targeting a city is better focused on taking the town down.

Before they would pussyfoot around the town instead of attacking when in range, now it usually focus fire on the town to take it.
 
Speaking of hotseat... how is it nowadays? Is ot close to Singleplayer? Do you see leader screens when you click on them? Do they ever contact you on their own? Or are they just sitting there?

I played about 100 turns, and it seemed the same as with G&K. I had few problems with it then - only the occasional glitch that went away over time.
 
I never played hot seat, I'm considering doing it, but I'm not at home to try right now. But I did play other types of online multiplayer during which the AI doesn't seem to interact with the human players. I was wondering if it's the same with hot seat.
 
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