BoG 01- American Pride

Originally posted by Bam-Bam
Speaking of the iron pillage--though it worked great here-- :hmm: seems *almost* wrong. I do not have a problem with it being used, since the result is not a whole lot different that what I was doing with holding off on Chivalry so we could build more horses...it just strikes me as "unnatural" in the context of the game--we "know" the tech, and have had iron as part of our strategic resource for centuries...food for thought--this is *NOT* intended as a criticism of the decision.

I definitely agree with you. Firaxis really screwed up when it comes to the price of upgrading units. Upgrading units should cost 4 gold per shield, the same as rushing units, instead of the current 2 gold per shield. It makes no sense that building an older unit and upgrading it is cheaper than just building the newer unit. Like you said, it was in essence the same as delaying the discovery of Chivalry. If I had played the entire game myself I wouldn't have discovered Chivalry so soon. But even the decision to delay the discovery of Chivalry doesn't really make much sense and almost seems like an exploit.

I definitely don't enjoy using cheap tactics like pillaging our own resources, but Grimjack tried to set up the war for me and looking at the state of our military I knew we were in no position to start one. So I had to do something drastic in order to get us into position.
 
im sorry about modding too much. i meant to make it a little bit easier, not that much though. my apologies. it was my first SG and i really wanted a dominating win.
 
You got one.

Thanks for all of the concern - my little boy has one wicked head cold and has not been sleeping well (and as a result, neither is his old man)
 
I have done six turns thus far. Took me longer than I thought, so I will take the other four turns tomorrow afternoon. Here is a short 'teaser'

World war 1 is running. Losses are still reasonable for us, and we
can keep reinforcing, in spite of not devoting 100% of our production to military efforts. Germans have lost two cities, Romans more than that, and we none. Unknown how Temujin is faring. He is at war still though.

Grimjack
 
Here is file:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG1-950_AD.zip

Executive summary. Cav is good.

BoG9003.jpg


Here there be a longish summary:


860AD (1) Check out relations. No outstanding deals with Romans. We are free to attack.
We are still up Astronomy and Metallurgy on him. Germany is also felt out. He would not for any price
want to go to war against Romans though.
I see we are totally corrupt on new continent. I switch to settlers on those places that have completed their
temples. I rush a temple in Oilsprings.
Can go to an evil 19 shields in Washington. I work plains instead of a hill, looking if New york can put the
hill to better use. Still 16 shields and Cav in 5. New York already has 20 shields, but I work hill instead of mountain,
and see if Buffalo can work mountain when it is finished growing. After having checked these cities, I assume
all other cities also have been MMed , so I do not spend more time trying to improve something I am not able to.

I am a bit curious as to why we are researching. If we plan to ride across the world, wouldn't we have more use
out of an extra cav or two every turn ?
I assume it is Rails we want eventually.

IBT Size 12 cities with full food is bled of a worker, in order for cities not size 12 have faster growth.
Romans sure have a LOT of troops, and we do not have much of a defense. I will wait one more turn, hoping
they would keep less than 10 troops on the mountain.

870(2) Prepare closest city to Roman stacks with rushed walls. MOve a few units in place. Will start war next turn.

IBT Germans are also trying to build Bach's for us.

880AD(3) Hmm, Germans have Music Theory. Sistine's could be a nice wonder. Too bad we do not have a prebuild.
We are also no longer up Astronomy on Him. Rome has also acquired Astronomy. Fat lot of good that will do him now.
I see that Romans do have a ship inside our borders. I tell him to leave our premises, and he declares on us :)

BoG9001.jpg


This should do wonders for any war weariness we could have felt. Time to see how much damage I can do before I
need to shave off his units from the sods. I do not think I can hurt him very much, since we are a LONG way from
his core.
After thinking a little about Romans 10 knights, 15 Longbows, 30 MIs and assorted pikes, I will see if Bismarck will
help us with the Romans troopers. I have seen lots of units enter German areas, so if I can pull him in, Germanys
cities is much closer than ours.
This is the deal I do:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/BoG9002.jpg]

Ereen defended by Pike and Musket falls without damage to our Cavs, we have teh edge in Culture, so I keep this as
it has dyes in its range.
Londinium is autorazed along with a Caravel. also our Cav is promoted against the warrior defender.
Aurelium defended by two spear falls, promoting two cavs to elite
Choybalsan, defended by two pikes falls after killing one cav and Promoting another.
after this, I go hide in the mountains, wanting to see what the Roman SoDs will do. I pillage a road, in order
for not so many MIs should be able to reach us. I hope Romans will go strike at the Germans, and I would liek them
to have enough troops to do the job properly, while we do the job on them.
Artaxa is only defended by spears, so I attack it in spite of attacks being across a river. Two spears fall, and
Artaxa is ours.
Adjust science slider for Physics in one. With the Negative War weariness, since they attacked US, I can get away
with a zero lux slider, getting us to +359gpt. I do need a tax collector in Richmond until its Market is ready.

IBT Cannot believe the rotten luck the RNG is giving me. I lose five cavs from the mountain stronghold on six counterattacks
one retreat. This is a str four unit attacking defense 3 unit in mountains. ON the other hand, most of Roman SoDs are
still in Germany, so that part worked. This turn I will have to lay mdown some reveneg. I learn Physics. Not wanting to
learn Magnetism, and negate our Lighthouse bonus, I instead research Economics, and start a prebuild for Smiths in
New York.

890AD(4) Hippo Regius two spears fall without a trace, and it is autorazed.
Gordions two spears also fail to impress our Cavalry force. It is likewise autorazed.
Seleucia is defended by two Muskets and one Longbow. They also fail to impress our Cavalry, who
is getting revenge from the RNG. This city is razed, in order to not bind a lot of troops as MPs. I will want
to make a lasting impression on the Romans, and hopefully get our troops in postition to strike at his core cities.
It will take a lot of troops, since I do not have cannons and no Muskets either. With enough Cavs, I may not need
any.
I manage to kill off some 10 assorted Mis and Knights on the Southern front, and our advance Cavalry reaches the
central plains. There are not many red blights in our jungle now.

IBT: More normal RNG luck this turn. I lose one exposed Cav, but Romans lose one Longbow and one Medieval Inf.
Romans land another spear/settler pair on our main island.

900AD(5) Hmm, pikeman of PIke/Settler pair retreats my cav. POsition my knight in strike position.
Nicomedia defended by two spears is captured and put to the torch.
I take a spear out of Ereet, and block a reinforcign PIkeman from using the road to get here.
We lose our first attacking Cav, as the pike defending Jerusalem is awake at its post. Doesn't prevent
Jerusalems fall on th enext knight though.
Tarentums Musket and Pike falls without any losses. It is torched as well. The Cavalry is really into this 'fire'
thing now.
Ack, a setback. Palmyra has a vet musket on top. It goes to yellow before rettreating our cav. Next unit is a pike,
and the pike kills two Cavs, while redlining. Underneath this one there is another veteran pike. I do not have enough
Cavalry to get this city, which is bad, since SunTzu will let him heal his defenders. This city is to be pillaged
down, and left alone until I have enough spare cav to take it down. I will for now go after easier pickings.
Rome is starting to fill his cities with Muskets now, and going will be rougher.
He seems to have only two Saltpeters, one of which is unconnected. The other one is deep down in Ivory land. WIll
see if it is possible to beeline here and prevent new Muskets from being built at least.
Neither Bismarck, nor Temujin has anything for offer up on trade.

IBT Hmm, seems like Germans got a leader since they completed Sistines this turn in Berlin. Romans cascade to Cops
and completes it in Pompeii. A Longbowman takes out one of our Cavs.

910AD(6) Brundisium has two veteran Muskets and a Catapult. It costs us three cavs to take that city. It is quite
possibly a productive city, since we are getting close to Roman Core now. I will need to get bigger stacks now.
Thus far I have managed with spreading out my forces in miniSoDs, using five or six on cities. I am deadly afraid of
flips to, thats why I do not capture cities. This has of course caused my troops to get hurt, since they never stop for
healing. I will devote some time to get together a decent force for next player to use to put some real hurt in the
romans.
The Romans are starting to put some hurt on the Germans now. Germany have lost one big city and one small bordertown.
Will see if I can poach some now that I no longer see any Roman large SoDs in that area.
Erdenet defended by spears falls. I do not know where Rome got all its workers, but we have captured at least 20 workers,
possibly 30 from them thus far. And it is not from Razings.
At Ceasaria, we defeat the regular Musket without problems, but lose a Cav versus the regular spear.


IBT A Roman knight gets shot to pieces promoting one of our Cavs in a forest. Germany foolishly settles new city
in cleared area. I will ignore his poaching for now, as I do not have anough settlers on hand to settle myself.
Gah, war weariness rears its ugly head. Sorry about that slipping by. Richmond loses a turn on its Marketplace.

920AD(7) Notice Romans must have some war-weariness too, and they are in Anarchy. This is probably not good for their
production capability ;)
As to our production, despite initial heavy losses we still field some 62 Cavalry.
Tabriz Romans only supplier of Dyes is not defended by Muskets :) I dispatch a task force.
Rome, is not defended by Muskets either. Romans must feel a severe shortage of funds. Another task force is on
its way here.
Hmm, quiet turn of movement. Building up for strike on Palmyra, but it takes a lot of time waiting on the few cannon
we have.
Not a single city razed this turn. OUr troops are starting to get edgy.

IBT A Longbow wanders up and retreats one of our cav. Germany poaches another city site. As long as Romans are in Anarchy
things may be this calm.

930(8) Having some 10 Cavs online Assault on Palmyra is started. One elite Musket, one elite pike and one veteran pike
later, Palmyra is smoking. Two cavs redlined, but no losses.
Tabriz is razed after killing two pikes.
Arretium pikemen makes a heroic defense, but ultimately falls to the flames after killing one of our Cavs.
Near Hispalis I place a Cavalry on what seems to be Romans only iron.
New Washington is founded as a filler.
New Konigsberg is defended by a pikeman from hell. IN spite of being redlined, he defeats two cavs before croaking.
New Konigsberg is also razed. Hope Germany isn't aware that it is their citizens that gets the shaft.
Romans still in Anarchy :)
Germany lacks Military Tradition and Physics, Mongols hopelessly behind, still lacking even Education.
Romans now willing to talk, but we still have 15 turns on alliance with Germans, so not even seriously considered.

IBT
Watch Germans and Romans kill each others troops. A Roman MI retreats one of our Cavalry on the mountain, and another dies.
Hah, def bonus works sometimes.

940(9) Hispalis defended by Musket/pike and Catapult is razed without losses.
Hovds two pikemen manage better, they defeat one of our Cavs
Eburacum on the island north of us is autorazed. Too bad, that was one city I had no intention of razing.
I increase science spending a notch for Economics in one.
I block the Roman Saltpeter near Ta-Tu. ooo, I slip with my fingers and found New Boston in a suboptimal spot. Sigh.
Feel free to move this city somehow.
Ta-Tus two pikemen makes as much resistance as the rest of the roman forces. This town however I keep, in order to get
Ivory for us more quickly. Settlers are left far behind. Front has move more than 3 squares every turn.
Starting Ta-Tu on Temple. Consider rushing Barracks instead, since healing stations are few and far behind.
Size9+ cities without markets get switched to markets and earn themselves Taxcollectors.
Cav move 9 steps on road, ferryline is moved to our southeasternmost tip.

IBT: See german and roman troops fight each other, and Germany recaptures New Leipzig:( I had hoped we would be able to
burn that city for the germans. Snice we do not have a ROP with Germans, we will probably have to withdraw our troops.
Mongosl demand we remove our troops !! What a nerve. Not even Germany has issued complaints against our Cavs.
Economics is done. I will leave Science on Navigation. NO beakers are invested, so feel free to change science.
I build up our right ving of the Palace

950(10) I remove our troops from German and Mongol cultural areas. NOthing else is done. I will leave Rome and ANtioch
razingas to next leader. I have not removed roads, since I can use roads to good effect after I have razed Roman cities.
WIth Rome in Anarchy during most of my turn counterattacks have been few and far between. Expect Longbows to show up soon
now though. ( I do not think they have iron, nor saltpeter..... )

Good luck
Grimjack
 
Preturn: All these elite knights need to be upgraded. We don’t need leaders that badly. Musketmen are totally not worth building. They cost a ton of shields. I switch them all to cavalry. What are we building JS Bach’s Cathedral for? We control 8 luxuries. I switch it to a bank without wasting shields. Likewise a courthouse in a city that’s 80% productive, I switch that to cavalry. We should just be building cavalry or barracks everywhere, we don’t need all this other stuff. Research changed to ToG. I guess we might as well research to steampower for the increased production and to build rails as we conquer. What are all these settlers on the Iroquois continent for?

950 AD (0): You left a lot of troop movements for me. I capture Rome with 1 casualty. They had a ton of pikes in there. We get a Great Leader on the last kill. We capture Rome and now control the Great Wall. I rush a couple cavalry.

960 AD (1): Neapolis captured along with Sun Tzu. Now we’re talking. Smith’s Trading company rushed in Ta-Tu. Rush a couple more cavalries.

IT: Germany and Rome sign peace treaty. Rome drops off a couple settlers by ship.

970 AD (2): Woot Smith’s Trading Company triggers our Golden Age! Rome must have traded for saltpeter at some point because they have quite a few musketmen. Cumae captured along with 2 catapults. Really bad RNG at Byzantium. 6 cavalries only manage to kill one musketman and take 1 hp off a pikeman. They all retreated though. Veii captured with 1 casualty. Get another Great Leader attacking Antium. We capture Antium along with a catapult with no casualties. Leader builds an army. We capture Viroconium with no casualties. I turn science down to 40%. We’re making 572gpt. We can rush 2 cavalries per turn almost now.

980 AD (3): Pisae captured with 1 casualty. Byzantium captured, no casualties. Agrippina autorazed, lost 2 cavalry to a regular musket.

990 AD (4): We learn ToG, research set to Magnetism at 40% (4 turns). Most of our non-marketplace cities riot, I guess there was some reverse war weariness from Rome declaring war on us that just wore off. Pompei captured along with Copernicus’ Observatory. Syracuse captured.

IT: Rome drops an archer off on our mainland. Oh no!

1000 AD (5): Lutetia captured with a few casualties. Lugdunum captured. Ravenna captured. Rome just has cities near German territory and one island city now. Argh as my caravel pulls up to their island city, Germany has a swordsman fortified on the only landing spot. It’s going to take forever to get our troops down to Germany. I tell Mongols to leave our territory for the 2nd time and they declare war on us. Dummies.

IT: Germans are building Magellan’s.

1010 AD (6): We capture Karakorum and the Oracle. Almarikh captured. Troop movements, rushing cavalry/caravels, etc.

1020 AD (7): Kazan captured. Mongols have one island city left. Declare war on Germany. New Frankfurt captured. New Munich captured. New Konigsberg autorazed. Lot more troop movements.

IT: Germany loses elite knight, veteran knight, and regular MDI attacking our cavalry stack on a hill.

1030 AD (8): We learn Magnetism. I’m unsure whether continuing research was a good idea but we’re only 1 tech from steam now. Need to up science to 70% to get it in 4. Darhan captured, Mongols destroyed. Blah all the caravels I rushed didn’t complete because it auto-switched them to galleons. Germany sure has a lot of elite knights.

IT: Regular German knight attacks our 2hp cavalry on hill and loses. Another stack of about 6 veteran German knights show up outside Hannover.

1040 AD (9): My cavalry keep losing to the damn German knights even though they’re on flat land. Lots of troop movement again. We still don’t have many troops in German lands. Have tons in ex-Mongol land and tons boarding galleons in our homeland. I tell the governor to manage moods in all cities because I’m lazy and there’s too many cities.

IT: Damn Germany attacks with like 10 more veteran knights. We lose about 4-5 cavalries. I wasn’t expecting this big of a counter-attack.

1050 AD (10): And the trend continues with cavalry losing to knights on flat ground more than half the time. More than half our cavalry force in Germany is dead now. At least the resistance in Hanover ended so we should get the 50% defense bonus now. New Hamburg autorazed.

Ok it’s just a matter of time until we win now. The cavalry flood is going strong and Germany won’t be able to hold us off no matter how many knights they build. Hopefully we can cripple them before they research military tradition.

We’re close to domination, but don’t raze German cities that you capture. Instead abandon ex-Iroquois or ex-Roman cities. That way you get to keep the cultural boundaries and you can hit Germany’s cities easier.

Make sure not to take Rome’s capital because we might end up having to make peace to get that island city, then break the peace treaty. I’d rather we didn’t do that but if it’s either that or wait until amphibious warfare we should definitely do it. I don’t get why Rome doesn’t kick that German swordsman off their island.

Just a warning, this set of turns took me many hours so be prepared to spend a long time. Just too many troops/workers to move.

The Game
 
I think BoG said he wanted conquest. I could have easily gotten domination on my turn. Grimjack razed a lot of cities that he captured too. I wouldn't mind if we decided to go for domination though just to get it over with. We know we won already and it would end the game quicker, and we'd also get a higher score due to faster finish/more territory.
 
i say, that we go for conquest, and se how quickly we can get it. i want to get steam power asap. also, prebuild for a possible iron works ;)
 
We get steam power in 2. You can't prebuild for iron works though. You don't know what city will be able to build it. Well I guess you would since you know the map. :p Really though even if we do get iron works it's not even worth building because we're so close to winning anyway.
 
Bach was a prebuild for Smiths, I didn't get any leaders, so I didn't dare hope for a rushed Smith. Sorry for not making that clearer. I had no intention of building it, since we do not have cathedrals...

I debated with myself a long while before I continued research to Economics. Bassically, I thought it would pay for itself very quickly.

Muskets were produced because in those cities it was lesser waste. I am a shield miser :)
I also didn't think Romans would fold so quickly.

And SHillen, you are right. It takes a great many hours, because in spite of game being won, it is very hard not to move those workers for roading.

As to war mobilization, yes, I agree with you, I should probably have switched over to only produce military.

Last, a question. I am unsure of protocol of when to release a turn to next player. This time I left it up to next player to decide if we should capture or raze Rome. I didn't keep many cities, because I didn't want to bog down troops as MPs while the blitzing was good.
Should I have played my turn10 to almost finish instead ?

Grimjack
 
Ooo, one more,
Settlers were for if we wanted to go for Domination.

Grimjack
 
Usually I go with all units on the last turn unless there's a critical decision to be made. Then I'll leave whatever units that decision involves alone and let the next person decide. But I'll make a note of that at the bottom of my timeline to let them know. So it would have been fine to leave the cavalry outside Rome but all the workers and other troop movements should have been done.

I didn't use war mobilization. I've actually never used it. I know there's a bug with it and I've read that it's very easy to accidentally exploit it. So I just don't use it.

BoG it's your turn btw. Go ahead and build your iron works hehe.
 
Conquest it is. :hammer:

BoG lay down the smack on poor Bismark!

(and build the Ironworks :crazyeye: , if you so chose).

I promise it will not happen on my watch--nothing but carnage.
 
well guys, i have some BAD!!! news




Washington didnt build the iron works!!!










and now for the good news,


WE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:beer: [party] :king: :goodjob: :beer: :bday: [party]

Preturn - im ready to roll!!!

IT- two german knights impale themselves on an elite cav

Turn 1 -destroy mainland rome. That aint right. German sword fortified by neopolis.

Turn 2 -take some german cities

Turn 3 -capture some more german cities

Turn 4 -capture even more german cities

Turn 5 -closing in. Captured half of german core. RR to unload point almost complete

Turn 6 -germany is down to 5 cities

IT - Germany attacks rome last city cuz I made rome sign a MA against germany. Sword dies and the gates to rome are open!

Turn 7 -germany is down to 4. Should be done by turn nine

Turn 8 - ROMANS ARE GONE. NEW BERLIN AND BONN ARE ALL THATS LEFT!!

Turn 9 -we capture last two cities and WIN!!!!!!

good job all, and i hope to see you in BoG02 (TBA)
 
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