Bonus to start with

[wizard73]

How good is expansive, creative and organised ?

Which is the best for you ?

 

[Harry_P]

Expansive, Creative and Organized average as starting bonuses. Expansive is useless on low difficulty lvl games because you get a health bonus anyway. Organized is minor at best. The civic discount only applies to the civic cost itself, and not the city maintenance cost which is the larger of the two by far usually. Creative is alright, but it can be duplicated with Wonders like Stonehenge and with the proper spreading of religion.

Financial is by far the best starting bonus, by a factor of 10. The rest have their uses in certain playstyles, but they won't make or break your game at all so I wouldn't worry about them too much if I were you.

 

[Romanichine]

Between those three, I'd take Creative anytime as the other two are not as useful. Being Creative you won't have to worry about getting Stonehenge for culture borders. Anytime you'll build/conquer a city, you won't have to worry about its culture expanding, and early in game Creative is excellent to grab land and secure large chunks of land for future cities.

 

[wizard73]

Ok, thanks for the answer

But wouldn't organised be interesting if youd planned to go just for the expensive goverment forms? It could give you a big bonus there woudnt it?

Well i thougt so that creative was good to, especially if you go for culture.

Why is financial so good ? Just for trading ?

 

[walkerjks]

But wouldn't organised be interesting if youd planned to go just for the expensive goverment forms? It could give you a big bonus there woudnt it?

Well i thougt so that creative was good to, especially if you go for culture.

Why is financial so good ? Just for trading ?

Organized isn't very good. Look at your civic cost sometime. Cut that in half. That's the bonus organized gives you. The way I play, my civics costs never go much above 24 or so. 12 extra gold would be nice, but at that point in the game I'm getting +60 commerce or from financial.

Creative is really nice for the land grab. It's a drop in the bucket for a cultural win. Philosophical and Financial are the two best traits for culture. But I still find myself playing Catherine anytme that I know I won't be alone on an island. The land grab is too important at high difficulty levels.

Financial gives you a major early bonus to commerce. A brand new cottage on a river is +3 commerce instead of +2. Even off a river, it's only 10 turns to get to +3. Early in the game, financial is basically a +25% boost to commerce and later in the game, it's still a +15% or so boost. Since commerce = science, it's pretty critical for peaceful civs to keep up with AI research at higher difficulties.

 

[MrCynical]

I'd probably put these three as the weakest of the traits so it's difficult to say. Creative will give faster border expansion, and the cheap lighthouses from the Organized trait can be useful if you're coastal. Expansive isn't going to be much use unless you've got loads of unhealthy terrain like jungle around, since health isn't usually the limiting factor in growth. Overall I'd probably take creative.

Organized is a trait that some people like, but the amount you spend on civics is usually trivial. Even with expensive civics I've never seen it above 50gpt, and financial will get you more than that. Financial is good because it gets you loads more commerce, allowing you to research faster. It also helps for hurrying production and with trading.

 

[Astax]

Crative is probably best of the 3, but I find myself depending on Expensive more and more on Monarch level, which is nightmare but I'm busting into it
Organized, eh, maybe if you go for hereditary vassal thocracy and caste system, which I usually do. I guess it can help you out a bit. I'll amke a point of comparing it tonight, it might actually allow me to keep more scientists instead of merchants.

Also of note are Agressive and Financial. Really good ones.

 

[wizard73]

Thanks for your answers

@ Astax
Yeah it would be very interesting to see how much you can gain out of the governement forms. Would be great if you could compare it tonight, because i just can play during weekends.....

Well i like very much Philosophical, but guess financial and aggressive have to be really good to

But i still think that creative and organised can be good..... We just have to go on testing these

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Basically Organized is best with Large empires (so not a starting bonus unless you are coastal)

Expansive and Creative mean early granaries (+health=growth) and early culture (+early expansion) respectively.

Creative and Organized (early culture, +cheap courthouses and lower civics costs) basically helps you expand throughout the game.

 

[MosquitoE]

Different strengths can be useful in different situations. You can chose a world size/land form to best utilize your chosen leaders traits. Or you could play the same leader on different land forms/games to see what it is like to be at a disadvantage.
It all depends what you are looking for in a particular game.

 

[Padmewan]

A lot turns on how you play and how flexible your strategy can be. I am trying out different civ's and trying to play to their strengths, so for example if you are an Organized civ I think you probably shouldn't play for a cultural victory, because Organized civs should expand quickly through landgrab and conquest (because of Vassalage and Theology).

I suppose an interesting challenge would be to create a "boring" civ leader with NO traits or UU's... then you are playing by the "pure" rules. But I digress.

 

[Harry_P]

One other point to mention here is that the Organized trait, while only covering the civics cost and not the city maintenance cost, gives access to half-priced courthouses. Courthouse DO reduce the maintenance costs and being able to crank one out right after you grab a city helps to keep the warmongering cost down. I honestly think the half-priced courthouses are a far better aspect of the organized trait than the half civics cost. If you're financial though you can usually buy the courthouses once you have access to Universal Suffrage, but in the area between Code of Laws and Democracy the Organized trait would certainly have its uses.

 

[JudgeDeath]

Between those three, I'd take Creative anytime as the other two are not as useful. Being Creative you won't have to worry about getting Stonehenge for culture borders. Anytime you'll build/conquer a city, you won't have to worry about its culture expanding, and early in game Creative is excellent to grab land and secure large chunks of land for future cities.

You're missing a trick. Get Creative and take Stonehenge. Not for the double helping of culture, but because you stop other Civs getting it, cementing your advantage over the non-Creative ones...