Boogaboo's C3C tales: tiny/small on Deity/Sid

[boogaboo]

Thank you all - I needed that to know I'm not missing anything, and I somewhat was.

@vmxa -
I don't think you can steal techs at the ancient age... unless you refer to {taking a tech for gpt then war}, which I think they get and don't let me do more than once a game..

@LulThyme -
Yep, nothing important until Feudalism, but they get it before 1000BC..
All 3 AIs are non-scientific (if they were, they also would begin with many spearmen ).
Also, I try to cripple them all (or at least 2) usually with a fast JAG attack and peace for cities.
They do get into somekinf of war economy, but they keep also producing and unfortifying settlers when peace comes unless they have other wars.

You did point out iron denial, which could be great if I can catch all...
but then I get hordes of horsemen, and I'm not sure what's worse.
I don't think I can get all the horses too..
One of them also (almost) always builds the Statue of Zeus early.

An early Army is definitely what is needed and combined with the fact that he is never attacked, I can go deep and pillage their resources!

@punkbass2000 -
Well, ofcourse there is no settlers neither goody huts when I play Sid..
and I also play with no SGL since otherwise THEIR life will be easy.
I'm not sure if I can go for the GL in this game..



@all -
I'm also not sure how many cities to build at my "core"... I'm thinking of actually building a settler factory to expand before starting a JAG war...
then again, attacking with 3 cities seems quite good sometimes.
What d'u say?
This is somehow my starting of non-short (but not long) games of CIV3 after years..

 

[punkbass2000]

"Well, ofcourse there is no settlers neither goody huts when I play Sid..
and I also play with no SGL since otherwise THEIR life will be easy.
I'm not sure if I can go for the GL in this game.."

I hadn't considered that SGLs might be turned off...
Yeah, I see your point, though I don't know that they would necessarily get many SGLs. They will get lots of goody techs without SGLs, and being non-Sci lowers their chances for getting them when they do research the tech first. Also, Wonders are so cheap for them anyway (80 shields for Colossus, for example), that an SGL here or there shouldn't be huge gain; they might even blow it on a Granary or Aqueduct.

 

[LulThyme]

I totally agree with punkbass.
First I would estimate you would be first to Writing at least 50% of the times.
In my games it was closer to 90%, but there were only 2 civs, they rarely met, we met late etc and a few other factors in my favor.
Meeting them early reduces cost of alphabet, which is the real important tech (once they have alphabet, they usually get writing pretty quickly).

In any case SGLs barely do anything for them at this level.
They only have 3% chance to get it on each new tech (So on average they probably wont even get one for the whole AA anyway...)
They will often waste it on crap, and even if they build a 300 shield wonder with it, they would have built it in 15 turns or so anyway?
If one wonder can pinch the game in your favor, then this is the strategy to use, Im almost certain...

I think ressource pillaging shouldnt be that hard and will have to be a BIG component of your game, wheter you go the SGL route or not.
The computer is usually pretty slow (comparitvly for Sid at least) at connecting ressources, and even then doesnt protect them much...

Im sort of failing to see how the techs are really helping them, though.
If they dont have iron, feudalism doesnt help, and they get nothing until at least invention, which is at least an extra 15 turns or so I would estimate.
How are they faring militarly by that time?
If they are still very strong, I guess being backwards in tech will be your death at this point.
But if you can do the big damage before invention, including pillaging of ressource, you should be ok no?

 

[boogaboo]

Iron denial, again, is great IF it can be done, and then there are horses..
I'm not going to bet on an SGL just yet.

A settler factory on the start does seem good however, to have more forces as the game continues.

Techs are helping them trade techs.. also making wonders available.
At Feudalism, it usually symbolizes my loss.

I want an early MGL!!! And I'm having bad luck at it..

 

[LulThyme]

Well of course, whatever strategy you use, will still rely a lot on luck, more so than your previous games.
At this level, you can easily play perfectly (whatever that means) and still lose.
IF (big if) you think a wonder is necessary, I am willing to bet the SGL is most efficient way of getting it...
(you can even get 3 techs first usually, writing, philo and litt, while researching writing at min and philo depends on where the ai are at this point, so its not hurting your economy too much.. which gives you something like one chance per 10 games to get it, a little bit less considering they will sometimes beat you to it)

 

[punkbass2000]

I think you may need to change your whole strategy for Sid, TBH. Joining your Worker right away can be a great gain when you win by 2000BC, but it is a major deficit to try to overcome when the game is going past the AA. You may be better mimicing SirPleb's and other high-scroing games, except with actually killing civs off, of course

 

[boogaboo]

@LulThyme - Doing 10 games for a chance of a SGL... perhaps when I'm really depressed.

@punkbass2000 - I am not joining my worker on Sid.
Niether am I using an OCC anymore, since it is quite pointless here.
This is why I'm helping my capital to be a settler factory ASAP, with my devoted worker help.

---------

BTW, I can sometimes get 4-5 techs for gpt, then declare war.
But then no AI will ever do such gpt deals with me.. EVER!
Still, I got past the AA once..

 

[boogaboo]

I've played in OCC style, and usually tweak a civ or 2, while I can't contain what's left and have virtually no chance of an army while getting ships landing on my shores.

I've also played for land-grab (aiming for domination-like game), and although the start is weak, I think this is the way to go.
I'm only should be looking for some map that will enable me to apply my tactic... and yesterday - I did an OCC on such a map .

So, I decided to take this great map and play it again and again until I can push a victory on it. I won't be able to submit it, ofcourse, but I'll finally have a relatively constant tactic and just have to wait for the right game to come to apply it.

The test map I got is very good, since I got most of the good tiles, together with horeses and 2 Iron and a few lux... if I expand.
I also have the AIs blocked on a relatively small ground.
If I can do this, then I can start thinking on doing the same on some other map.

When I get home, I'll add a screenshot of this map.

 

[Dianthus]

@boogaboo, have you tried to get the Pyramids using DaveMcW's Masonry SGL technique? If this is possible on Sid I would think it would help quite a bit!

 

[punkbass2000]

It would be very difficult to be first to any tech. Your best bet would be a 50-turn run at Writing.

 

[boogaboo]

@ all ya SGLs out there:

As of now my plan does not include giving my money away for science, although going that way may be a later option -

Fact is, that I value money alot.
Every penny should be saved for the JAG to sowrdman upgrade - not in "science".
Spending even 1 commerce on science for 50 years is pure outragous
Letting the AIs do their own SGLs is outragous too.
And when I seem to think it might be worth it, I'm reminded of the deadliest facts - to research 50 turns brings me to a minimum of 1750BC (and later with Aztec) for that SGL, if I get it.
At this time, I've usually started wars, and sowrdmen are soon to be obsolete, so I have to catch them right then... perhaps statue of frickin Zeus naa I'll capture it , if any.

So... no SGL yet.

Edit.. how d'u cut a pic so it won't be wide in the forum?? PM me?
Behold the map, where I'm at the bottom of in 4000BC, with great land.

 

[vmxa]

Just resize it to 800x600 and it should fit. Otherwise I use something like Hypersnap that has a crop function to trim the picture.

 

[boogaboo]

I've looked at my situation, and realized there is a lot I need to milk before I want to retry this creature, named {small,Sid}.
I don't know when I'll regain my efforts and try beating them as Celtic, Roman, or even Egypt.
Perhaps when someone ELSE (Yes, it's a challenge) beats it, I'll copycat his work better. I haven't had a SGL in my life.
Never tried to expand until recently.
And what I need isn't {small,sid}, but exactly my next few slots - Standard maps.

So, I'll be back, on another day, to this thread also.
Now I'm to open the boogaboo standard milk thread!

 

[ionimplant]

very interesting thread.. just spent 1 hour to finish all the six pages...
it seems you're already doing every possible thing to get the early victory and so really have no suggestion..