Boogaboo's C3C tales: tiny/small on Deity/Sid

punkbass2000 said:
Have you considered playing against Sumeria? I know they're good, but because they have a defense only warrior replacement they get fewer of these starting units, since they have no units available at the beginning of the game with the 'AI Offense' flag.
Click to expand...

I play vs. Arabia, France and India - all start with warriors only (as defence/attack), so there's no reason why I would take an opponent civ with a spearmen-like UU, which will get them a GA soon.
I'm not afraid of the cities defence, nor am I afraid of an impending attack - I just want to know where the AI stack is.. :crazyeye:
 
I've not beaten my 1175BC record yet, but had a civilization related mental breakdown...
Please help me by posting your view on this thread (titled "playing too much civilization mantal results ") :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108287

Hope to come again soon :(
 
OKOK!

Hear me out!
I'm happy to tell ya all that I have done a near-great game, which I consider great. I've beaten myself in 6 turns and conquered the last nation at 1350BC.
Score is 23969!

2 issues made the game a somewhat miss -
1. Iron was FAR, very far! Reached it at the final turns, when it was already useless..
2. The GML came late, at about 1600, and I had to put archers, not swordsmen in it.

Other than that, I can say luck wasn't bad when I REALLY needed it, which is one of the things you must, along with 3 cows in my 2 radius, and a road I worked hard to build to my last enemy...

Still got 2 maps, one sounds promising, so I'll just play 'em tomorrow, and if nothing new happens, this is my #1 submission for the {small, (C3C)deity} square.
 
I still need to sleep more, and am now at work.
I've decided to take different nations for Sid.
Excluded Religious altogether.

I'm gonna fight :
1. Portugese - (Exp) + [Sea]
2. American - (Exp) + Ind
3. English - [Sea] + Com

() = no barbs... :)
[] = hopefully no islands, or far ones in a pangea.

Ind and Com are good only for large cities (7+), and workers working fast or low corruption wouldn't affect too much I hope.

I'm taking Aztec.
Romans and Zulus, although militaristic and with an early GA are not likely to be chosen only for their UU, since they are not agricultural, and I always take advantage of that with Aztec, founding my Capital on a river...

I wanna sleep, but first - food and a bit more work...
 
Well, on the first post, there's now a "content index" for this thread.. :mischief:

I'm struggling on Sid (didn't think it would be easy).
I'm not so happy about taking the american as industrious, but what could I do??

A good game here seem to be the one where I get Iron, 4 cities, and a GML soon...
That makes an invincible army of sowrdsman, which is the only way I could defeat 3 civs at Sid.
The first I could somehow manage, and even bother another neighbor, but to continue effectively, I have to get a real army..

Not easy.. any sugegstions..? change AIs??
 
I dont have any suggestions at all, as I would need to try similar games to even try to get a feeling for what you are doing, but I want to tell you I read every update on the same day, and am always glad for news, so keep posting!!
 
Would playing as Egypt be any good? I had a few tentative goes with Japan as an opponent, hoping to get the wheel either as a lucky early trade or from extortion after an early war. Everything seemed too slow on a tiny map, but since you have moved up to larger maps it might be better on these. The war chariot is a very nice unit, effectively a fast archer.
 
@Lulthyme - Good to see someone following my thread.. I thghout it was just a log file for me... :D
Sometimes I just have to work/sleep/go to friends, so I'm off the net for a day or 2.

@offa - Egyptians were tried in another setting... they can't produce "easy" barracks (they're not militaristic), and each such unit costs me 30, like a sowrdsman... that's why I don't even consider this.

What I am trying to do is to get an early GML, 4 cities (for the army), and Iron.
If I can get a sowrdsmen army soon enough, I can do it.. I think. :crazyeye:
 
boogaboo said:
@offa - Egyptians were tried in another setting... they can't produce "easy" barracks (they're not militaristic), and each such unit costs me 30, like a sowrdsman... that's why I don't even consider this.
Click to expand...

Not being military is a drag, but you can ask mapfinder for 2 forest squares to speed this up. In addition, Japan is not an ideal opponent. However, war chariots are definitely only 20 shields. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the Hittite 3 man chariot?
 
Hes saying I think, that each building of a barracks lost him 30 shields, the equivalent of a swordman.
 
What I'm saying is 2 things
Note : I play Sid, and I see this is not going for an OCC style game, since I need at least 4 cities for an army, and also for actual unit production to challenge Sid AIs....)

1. Only militaristic civs do barracks in 20 shields (can rush if needed for conquered cities), others - like Egyptians and Hittite - are not militaristic, and therefor take 40 shields to build a barracks, which is both a setback for the beggining and for other cities I take and want them to produce units...

2. An Aztec JAG is upgraded to a swordman for 45 gold.
A JAG costs 15 shields.
An Egyptian war chariot costs 30. <-- EDIT = 20 , how silly can I get?!
A swordman costs 30 too.

I just can't see too many reasons to choose the Egyptian or Hittites, since they are NOT militaristic and don't have a real UU advantage over the Aztecs.
I will remind you that Aztec are also Agricultural, so I can grow my cities fast, and build a barracks in notime.

Can't see other civs with these advantages...
The AI goes like crazy on the Tech tree.. if you don't have a starting UU.. ur lost, man :crazyeye:

Also, I was more asking for advise on the AI civs, not mine.. :mischief:
 
punkbass2000 said:
I'm sorry, but the Egyptian War Chariot only costs 20 shields. It is a Wheeled Horseman with a ten shield discount. If it were 30, it would be worse than a Horseman, other than being available one tech early.
Click to expand...

You're right. :blush:
I go edit.

Still not being militaristic is a big pain, and those War Chariot don't upgrade to sowrdmen. ;)
They also require the wheel, which is bad..

My problem is that 3 Sid AIs just expand too much too early. :(
What AIs should I prefer from the following (which was my view when I ran mapfinder last time) :
Commercial, Industrious, Cultural.
My sure best are seafaring (stupid ships) and expansionist (stupid scouts, no huts).
I have one commercial, one industrious, no cultural AIs.
Is this the way to go?
 
I suppose Iroquois' UU is just too far down the tech tree? No Militaristic either :( But still, with good luck, you could grab a few nice huts and also get a MW Army, which would be ridiculously powerful. IT could speed things up at the end, even if the beginning is a bit slower. Anyway...
 
punkbass2000 said:
I suppose Iroquois' UU is just too far down the tech tree? No Militaristic either :( But still, with good luck, you could grab a few nice huts and also get a MW Army, which would be ridiculously powerful. IT could speed things up at the end, even if the beginning is a bit slower. Anyway...
Click to expand...

Iroquis seem a reasonable civ, I admit, but still I think the militaristic abuse if a huge plus.
I capture a city, and as soon as it is size 2 and built a shield, I rush a barracks (sometimes the second turn).
This is very important, but I will perhaps give Iroquis a test AFTER winning with Aztec. :D
 
I've tried again and again to contain the AIs with only the capital, and yesterday I succeeded to have Iron and a few sowrdmen before 2500BC..
The only thing I lacked was a GML, but still it wasn't enough to contain the 3 Sid AIs, who were producing settlers, and later also swordmen and wonders like raindrops from a storm cloud...
They also finish the ancient age in science before 1000BC for sure, which is alarming..

After that bitter experience, I've understood that depending on 1 city would not be enough to beat the AIs on Sid.

I'm going to build at least 1 (probably 2) cities on good spots, and only then trigger my GA and attack the AI.
I need to match the AIs unit production to SOME degree in order to conquer..

So, that's my update.
Maps waiting for me at home when I'll finish work (and sleep a bit)...
 
Anyone has an idea how I can get forward in techs with 3 Sid AIs on my continent?

I usually trade for Bronze Working and "kidnap" Iron working for gpt, then start a war to avoid the gpt..
Recently, I start seeing that the AIs are in the Middle Ages by 1000BC, which I cannot always fight using sowrdsmen.

I've thought how I can get along in tech to catch up :
1. Try getting many techs for peace instead of cities... this will allow me to get techs but the AI will still have all it's cities..
2. Build the Great Library.. Haven't yet tried this, but I'm not sure I want to dedicate a city for so long, and usually I'm only left with 2 AIs when this wonder will be complete, and one of them may not be so advanced..
3. trade trade trade - the Moonsinger way.
I don't think this will work, since I don't have 8 AIs, just 3, so I'll have to pay a lot for techs, and won't get the money back..

What the hell is the best way for me to overcome my science shortage (I'm currently thinking of only implementing the 1st option and run with it).
Please, advise..
 
I have not played on tiny or small maps, but if you had enough gold to buy a tech, you may have enough to steal it. This is better than buying as the AI does not get the money to use for research or support.

The GL is not a viable option.
 
The thing is if you leave them with more cities, they will research even faster...
In terms of war tech, after Iron Working, there is nothing really important until Feudalism right? (for you or them...)
If none of them are scientific + you destroy their cities + you can also target their iron!
That should leave you enough time to do what you need to do.

I would not significantly alter your strategy, your best bet I think is to attack as early as hard as you can, destroying cities, and forcing them to some kind of war economy to slow them down, and use trading to sort of keep up, although I dont see that many techs that would be useful to you anyway, unless you can even reach Feudalism yourself.

If youre unlucky, you might not win, but you already expected it to be like that I guess...

I'm just saying that I think that going for getting tech for yourself instead of AI destruction will slow you down even more...
 
If you took the Iroquois, you might be able to be first to Writing at a 50-turn pace. I'm not sure if that works at Sid, but the thing is their Science doesn't get faster, really, yours just gets slower. The 50-turn min is a constant, however. Their research is only speeded by their extra cities, etc. They may not get to it by 1750BC. Anyway, if you do this enough times you will get a SGL. I know it's a longshot, but I 've also heard you espouse the virtues of getting a Settler on Turn 0 ;)
 
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