BOTM 01 Pre-Game Discussion

[Trynthlas]

PS on Drill promotions -> First strikes are great, but I really love the combination (on city defenders) of CG and Drill for huge defensive bonus and less collateral damage (Drill II and up) from siege units.

 

[kimme]

I have an error loading this game with all the latest patches and the latest HOF mod. Here's an log with the AssetsChecker V2.0

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Vanilla Files - Path: C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4
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* * * Vanilla: No Errors were found * * *


Warlords Files - Path: C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords
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* * * Warlords: No Errors were found * * *


BTS Files - Path: C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword
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BTS: Assets\XML\GlobalDefines.xml,<-- Error: Files do not Match

* * * BTS: No Errors were found * * *

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* * * 2 Errors have been found * * *

 

[Thrallia]

it looks like your globaldefines.xml file has been altered from the standard installation...have you installed and used CivScale or any other mods?

If you have, you'll need to replace that file with the original...CivScale allowed you to reset any changes made to your installation, but I'm not sure about any other mods...if it wasn't CivScale that changed that file then unless you have backed up the original you may need to uninstall and reinstall BtS.

 

[Trynthlas]

Well, I feel bad now...already played and finished the first BOTM

Now I have to wait 'til February 1 to see the results? aaarrggghhh

 

[DaviddesJ]

At the 'average' conversion rate of 1 = 2, the statues add +0.5 to every sea tile, one half the effect of a lighthouse. But their build cost is nowhere near 1/2 that of a lighthouse...

I think this isn't a very useful way to look at it (and it understates the value of the Moai Statues). If you don't have a lighthouse, you will only very rarely work any coast or ocean tiles at all. If the lighthouse added +1 food to all your grasslands, for example, that would be huge. The reason the lighthouse isn't huge is that it's improving tiles that you would never work to the point where they are just barely worthwhile. But, once they have crossed that threshold of "worth working", the extra improvement from the Moai Statues is all free.

Here's another way of saying the same thing. Suppose that after building a lighthouse, you could build an "improved lighthouse" which adds another +1 food to every water tile. How much would you be willing to pay for an "improved lighthouse"? Certainly, a lot more than the original lighthouse.

 

[Riker]

I can't load the save. I have installed only Rhye's and fall (latest version), Bruhic's patch and the hall of fame mod. And obviously the last patch

 

[azzaman333]

I can't load the save. I have installed only Rhye's and fall (latest version), Bruhic's patch and the hall of fame mod. And obviously the last patch

You have to replace Bhruic's patch with the original 3.13 files.

 

[cabert]

I think this isn't a very useful way to look at it (and it understates the value of the Moai Statues). If you don't have a lighthouse, you will only very rarely work any coast or ocean tiles at all. If the lighthouse added +1 food to all your grasslands, for example, that would be huge. The reason the lighthouse isn't huge is that it's improving tiles that you would never work to the point where they are just barely worthwhile. But, once they have crossed that threshold of "worth working", the extra improvement from the Moai Statues is all free.

Here's another way of saying the same thing. Suppose that after building a lighthouse, you could build an "improved lighthouse" which adds another +1 food to every water tile. How much would you be willing to pay for an "improved lighthouse"? Certainly, a lot more than the original lighthouse.

Exactly.
There is no point in building the moai statues before the lighthouse.
coast tiles with moai and no lighthouse are barely as good as plains cottages.

 

[DaviddesJ]

There is no point in building the moai statues before the lighthouse.

Well, of course. Did anyone ever suggest such a thing?

 

[cabert]

Well, of course. Did anyone ever suggest such a thing?

yes, in some way, by comparing the improved output of moai and lighthouse.
It's not one OR the other. It's both.

 

[ngraner42]

Another, but less elegant way to state Balbes's argument is that the breakeven number of turns needed to get back your investment in the Moai status is considerably worse than the Lighthouse. This leads one to believe that the investment in the Moai statues is a bad investment.

This discussion has made me realize that I really should calculated the return period on building investments. I generally go with a gut instinct, but that only works if you have a very strong knowledge base underlying that gut instinct.

 

[morpheus11]

I don't find the Moai statues to be a great wonder, but it does have its uses.

For example a commerce city with lots of coast but few the Moai Statues could be helpful. However, IIRC it is a national wonder and should be planned carefully so not to be put in a city prime for Wall Street and other commerce national wonders. And since it doesn't become obsolete it can be usefull for many years.

 

[DaviddesJ]

yes, in some way, by comparing the improved output of moai and lighthouse.

I can't find any posting where anyone compares "value of water tiles with lighthouse only" to "value of water tiles with moai statues only". Except yours.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Exactly.
There is no point in building the moai statues before the lighthouse.
coast tiles with moai and no lighthouse are barely as good as plains cottages.

Unless, of course, you're already working a seafood tile... Even then I'd build the lighthouse first, tho.

 

[BLubmuz]

I'm playing some test with a game someone posted (thanks).
The starting position is good, but there're other aspects i wish talk about.

I experimented with expionage, the newest thing BtS has.

Steal tech: not much point in doing so, you must divert gold you can use to research by yourself, unless you carefully choose your victim from the beginning.
A very useful feature is the "incite revolt": i was stuck in bombarding a city protected by walls, and by Chicken Pizza (i forget the spell, this way it's funnier) with some 6-7 trebs, and the defences dropped so slowly...
with a single spy, better 2 (spare), you can set them to "0" in a single turn, and if you got your stack ready, you can start the attack. Be aware that next turn the defences will be up again.
Thus, from now on, i'll bring some spy along with my SoDs.

Some hint?

edit
one thing i was forgeting: how comes it finishes in turn 500?

 

[MarkM]

Hmm, just reading here for first time since started playing. Since I have started playing, I can't say much, but as the one who I think first mentioned the Maoi statues, I dismissed it almost immediately as any kind of short-term solution, even before I downloaded the real game. I was thinking of it as a longer-term (build it further down the road in the game) solution than something to rush into early game. As has been pointed out, building a wonder that requires a lot of hammers to solve the problem of not having many hammers is ... problematic, without a lot of population built up to whip those hammers.

 

[SpeedyKQ]

Thus, from now on, i'll bring some spy along with my SoDs.

Even better, send the spies AHEAD of your SoD. The longer a spy sits in the city, the cheaper the mission is.

 

[DaviddesJ]

As has been pointed out, building a wonder that requires a lot of hammers to solve the problem of not having many hammers is ... problematic, without a lot of population built up to whip those hammers.

Great Engineer?

 

[WoundedKnight]

Should be a cakewalk.

The setting -- no tech trading -- is very much in favor of the player. As the AI gets a discount on trades with other AI, this tends to keep the dominant AI players very competitive in the tech race. If they can't trade, they have to rely exclusively on their own commerce for technology, meaning that their advancement will be slower and the AI will be more vulnerable. If you can establish a tech lead, you can invade technologically inferior enemies.

Ethiopian traits (organized/cultural) are so-so.

Organized is a good trait. Lower civic expenses are a good thing. Good for world conquest.

Cultural is a weak trait, unless you are aiming for a cultural victory. It is also helpful for domination because of border expansion in conquered cities.

The unique building (stele) & culture trait both make going for a cultural victory attractive.

I predict lots of domination and cultural victories.

WK

 

[Lexad]

Oeganized is an excellent trait (half-price chouses) if you're going for Domination; half-price lighthouses aren't bad either.
Cultural is also an excellent trait for Domination with free border expansions, cheap libs and theatres (can be built in major cities at least)