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BOTM 10 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by DynamicSpirit, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. MarkM

    MarkM Cow Herder

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    Jovan, congratulations! It is very nice to hear from you, thanks for sharing with us. It sounds like you had a real nailbiter finish, only two turns ahead of Mansa!

    Anyone who looks at the results threads knows you're a very strong and regular GOTM player. I hope you find more opportunity in the future to share with us how you do it, and what decisions and actions you find to be critically to doing well & why.
     
  2. ngraner42

    ngraner42 Ultrarunner

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    Adventurer save.

    Founded in place and produced workboat, warrior, archer, settler. Tech was Mining, Archery, Bronze Working, AH. Second city one left of the Copper.

    I moved my Archer out of the second city to defend the Worker about to finish the mine. Two barbarian warriors took out my tripple first strike archer and the worker. Game over.
     
  3. Jovan Kukic

    Jovan Kukic Warlord

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    1)My legendary cities were the first city (seafood city, you know, the capital, I think Aachen), Saxon (my best city SE from capital, former barb city), and probably an iron-seafood city with Moai Statues(over sea, on peninsula near small Malinese island).
    2)I don't remember how many GA, but I think that almost all my GPeople were GA.
    3)I think I haven't marble, but I'm not sure.
    4)No Sistine, maybe 0-2 other wonders.
    But, I had 9< cities with 6 (I was lucky :) to have them in at least one city and I spread them further) religions (and 3 with islam-it came too late and mosque needs marble) and made 9x6+3(probably) temples and 6x3+1 cathedrals. With GAs I balanced culture to almost simultaneously all 3 cities get legendary culture. It would be faster if I was financial. And, of course, in the later game I set 80-100% on culture.
    By the way, I read forums not often, but always read game results, so if I good remembered, Jesusin, you are one of the fastest culture(or maybe diplo)players-so I think you won't find something new in my post, but it is very good that you asked me that because of the other players.
     
  4. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    I'm finally done with my game but I'm experiencing ISP trouble :thumbsdown: and won't submit/post details until tomorrow.

    It's a 1764 domination victory.
     
  5. jesusin

    jesusin Ant GOTM Staff

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    Yes, I am crazy about cultural games. I used to win a lot of Legendary Cultural awards back in Vanilla. That's why I asked so many details (thank you, very interesting data).

    I find very surprising that you didnt use the 2-gems city as Legendary. I guess its' due to its lack of hammers and your abundance of religions. Didn't you find the capital somewhat sub-par for a cultural victory?
     
  6. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    Unconquered Sun

    Contender. I did feel challenger is winnable (or at least an irrelevant malus) with no hunting resources visible and likely enough land to not worry about cultural borders too early; but I also expected far more people to play contender and I wanted equal footing in comparing strategy.

    Goal: Domination. Nothing less than the total military, economic, and technological defeat of the AIs would suffice.

    Result: 1764 Domination Victory. Score 225,000. Kill ratio 60 to 600. Five AIs vassalized. Clock ticked to 66:30.

    Spoiler :




    PS. There's more I want to post but I'm still without web access at home. Right now I'm writing from an internet cafe and I have only two files with me: the pic above and the 1762 save I intended to submit. Turns out, I have to submit a save from 1764, not 1762. Guess I'll have to replay my last "end turn". Anyhow, I'm attaching the '62 save.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Gosha190

    Gosha190 King

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    Unconquered Sun

    congrats on your win! You beat my score. I got about 115K only finishing in 20BC.
     
  8. Yamps

    Yamps Deity

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    Wow, this looks awesome Unconquered Sun!

    I guess that those pictures are saying sth about SE vs CE.
     
  9. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    Good news first - I'm back online and I also had an autosave for 1764 so I submitted without any problem.

    @Gosha - I'm not surprised at all you're on with a winning submission.

    Moving the settler to block land is a great move, in fact a must-do if there weren't another landmass nearby. Moreover, the starting location is a GP farm (well, it's possible to cottage the grass hills, but it's meh), so moving is good for cottaged capital strategy too.

    Going Oracle (regardless of the exact use) is also a top move because of starting Myst and forests to chop. It didn't match my overall strategy because I didn't want any prophets eating my great scientists, but I'm glad someone else demonstrated the power of Oracle as kingmaker.

    IMO the AP victory is still a game design flop compared to the other types of victories available, which, I feel, were achievable from your position in 20BC. Nonetheless, gratz on a deft manipulation of the AP.
     
  10. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    Yes and no.

    The first part of my game was played as:
    GP farm capital
    Hybrid economy everywhere else
    - special tiles, mines, specialists (contributed 1 GS), and cottages.

    This was only a temporary setup, until I had the techs needed for a true economy.

    I knew some things about the game right at the start (i.e. the starting spot is good enough for Liberalism path bulbing). The most important info I got later was the layout of the lands west, over the straits. Tons of grasslands, many lacking fresh water whatsoever.

    My usual strategy would call for teching to a renaissance military advantage and taking over some AI cities. The abundance of land to settle meant I don't need to go to war so early, but it also meant this land has to be developed very quickly to make up for the advantages of conquered deity cities.

    Conquered deity cities, say those of Washington, come with towns, academies, buildings, settled great people, etc. On the other hand, newbie cities on the western peninsula come with, well, maintenance costs.

    So, there's factor #1: grass, limited water. Cottages or workshops.

    And factor #2: need to grow cities, improve tiles, build key buildings and rebound from maintenance to significant gains ultrafast.

    Combined, they made me choose workshops. I played the second part of my game as:
    GP farm capital
    Hammer economy everywhere else
    . I even bulldozed three towns.

    From the Scientific Method in the 600ADs I went for Communism and then for Assembly Line. A grassland workshop under Caste/SP starts at 4.4 hammers and quickly builds the necessary infrastructure: granary, forge, factory, coal plant. At that point each workshop is worth 8.4 of hammers, or wealth, or research.

    Had I went for Democracy, cottages would have developed much slower. What's worse, setting up all the buildings needed would have been hard, there's one set for research %, one for gold %, and I still need the factories/coal plants to be able to build an army strong enough to defeat 6 deity AIs.

    And they weren't idle deities. Ceaser vassalized GK via direct warfare, accepted a peaceful vassal offer by Wang, and then vassalized Sury via warfare again. I bribed him into that to neuter both warmongers with one shot at a time I couldn't afford a war; it likely backfired on me but I can't know for sure. Finally, the Ceaser alliance marched against Washington with vast armies.

    Wash and Mansa were playing a very different game. While Ceaser had mostly irrigated plains and had MFG (read units), Wash/Mansa had mostly cottaged grass. More like "towned" grass in fact. Mansa was well after cultural victory too. Wash was content to be the most advanced AI at the time.


    At first I thought Wash tech advantage can hold the line...
    Spoiler :




    ...but facing the stacks of death of four AIs, backward as they were, was too much. When Sury's brand new Rifle stack appeared on the horizon, I had to act decisively and gave Infantry tech and 1100 gold to Wash. He was smart enough to instaupgrade and Ceaser was smarter to sue peace. I promptly bribed Ceaser in war v Mansa, which meant his SoDs had to travel all around the world to the frozen wastes of near South Pole to confront Mansa.

    Meanwhile, I got an extra benefit from my hammer power. Rathauses being OK even under Communism and Jails being a must for total offensive warfare, investing into Intelligence Agencies got me a lot of EP. I was able to steal techs from Wash/Mansa at nearly 1 EP:1 beaker rate. I was also able to revolt cities for my future conquest.

    The said conquest started with Tanks, Marines, and battleships for pillage protection/coastal bombardment. Here the map proved tricky for a third time (#1 being the lack of early commerce resource tiles, #2 being choosing workshops over CE/SE) because I had no oil. Early SciMeth paid off as I settled the oil next to the South Pole.

    Washington fell in 9 turns (initial plan was 6 but I got tons of bad luck). Mansa, who was good at holding the entire Ceaser alliance army in the frozen waste, was to be my next target.

    Ceaser however surprised me by demanding 1000 gold tribute. By vassalizing Wash few minor cities, I had deteriorated the Roman relations to Cautious. Ceaser being in war however I refused to pay. Next thing I know Ceaser DoWed Wash (and so me as well) while in war v Mansa. Sury killed my oil city in couple of turns.

    Whatever. I had the nearby desert oil by then and 1k MFG per turn. My tanks destoyed Ceaser's gren/cannon/rifle SoDs and started capturing cities. I had Flight too, with fighters to soften targets and paratroopers/airports to reinforce key positions. Ceaser was researching Assembly Line but losing two cities with academies+settled GSes gave me the time to capture Rome.

    Ten turns of peace, and I finished what I started, softening infantry garrisons with bombers. By the way, Radio meant Cristo, and Cristo meant I went back to hybrid economy to accommodate the different parts of my growing empire, switching civics often.

    One by one Ceaser's vassals rebelled, only to be vassalized again by me. I also took over some forsaken barbarian cities way south. Finally, I sent some settlers to remote locations and got 64% land.

    By that moment Mansa was barely halfway to 3x 75k culture, and I was several turns from tactical nuking his coastal cities, moving in, and then tac nuking his inner cities and capturing them with paratroopers brought in transports. He got lucky ;)
     
  11. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    The Hammers


     
  12. Yamps

    Yamps Deity

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    Thanks, this report was very educational! :)

    This is interesting. He declared on you and your vassal Washington because you didn't pay tribute? Did that happen immediately after you refused to pay?
     
  13. srad

    srad King

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    Unconquered Sun, thank you for the detailed report!

    I never read or thougth about the Hammer (Workshop) economy but it seems to be a really great choice on this map. As said in my own spoiler I learned that CE was much too slow and too low on production and FE/SE would be also a problem on this land with the absence of fresh water. So the workshops... great move and I learned a lot!
     
  14. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    Let me add my thanks to Unconquered Sun. There's much in your write-up that will help me improve - but It will take much improvement before I could execute such a brilliant plan. Skål!
     
  15. Jovan Kukic

    Jovan Kukic Warlord

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    You are right. It 's because of lack of hammers. I remember that I had to make hard decision what 3 cities to make legendary. Saxon was the best city, but it was on the border, so in the middle game I fortified majority of my army at Saxon expecting a surprising sneak attack by AI backstabers, but it didn't happened. For second legendary I have chosen the capital because of few old culture objects (x2 culture, because 1000< years old) and towns, and hammers. The third was more difficult to choose, I think I had maybe 3 options, but I'm sure I made the right decision. The iron-seafood city had many hammers (for cathedrals) because of the Moai Statues, and had cottages. 2 gems are weaker than towns in later game (liberalism, ppress, dem,...). But, of course, the 2gems city, and city SE of it (NE of capital) were quite good for culture, too.
    And, I almost forgot to say it, after finishing cathedrals, Hermitage, etc., I prequalified miners to become fishermen and artists, especially in capital I think.
     
  16. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    A couple of turns later.

    Just as interesting, at one point Mansa agreed to join me in war v both Ceaser/GK/Sury and Wang, who had already canceled vassalization. I wasn't even in war v Wang yet Mansa agreed to attacking two different parties.
     
  17. godotnut

    godotnut Inverted Unicycle

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    I'm always tempted by Deity GOTM, and this time I actually finished one. It was my first attempt at BOTS. In fact, I got it just for this GOTM. Aside from a few tech choice differences, I pretty much played it like it was vanilla. I simply didn't know how to use many of the new features and was more into playing this game than a ton of research first. I did read up to learn about espionage, but it wasn't a factor in my game.

    Despite a number of unfavorable early random events, I was on track to cruise to a nice cultural victory. I was about four turns away from a completely peaceful Deity victory (peaceful except a few barb wars and a diplomatic war that I did not engage troops in), based more or less on the strat in my "Totally Peaceful" guide in the War Academy, when JC won a diplo. Four turns. Grrrrr..... :mad:

    Now I remember why I quit playing this game in the first place. So many many hours to get so close and then to lose to something that felt totally out of my control. C'est la vie, I guess.

    I went ahead and submitted my loss. Right now, I'm not sure if I'll be back. I can't say that my first BOTS experience was favorable. The random events do not seem to go well with GOTMs, and every single one of mine was negative, including two technology setbacks, without which I would have won the game. I assume there are positive random events too. But I didn't see any, except some research I discovered in some ruins that gave me beakers toward a useless tech about 10 turns before the game ended.

    Anyway, hello to my good friend Jesusin (long time no see), and thanks to Dynamic Spirit for a favorable map. I haven't had time to read the thread here yet, but I assume there were a number of wins with this easy of a map.
     
  18. Gosha190

    Gosha190 King

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    I know about 5 victories so far.

    what year could you win in?
     
  19. Gosha190

    Gosha190 King

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    C'est la .. game :)

    It's really pity to loose so close to your finish. :sad:
     
  20. godotnut

    godotnut Inverted Unicycle

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    1810. Slowed down by tech setbacks from random events, among other things.
     

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