[BTS] BOTM 147, Final Spoiler, game submitted

[Deckhand]

BOTM 147 - Final Spoiler

Emperor Ivory Joao

So how did your game after 1AD go?

Did you settle uninhabited islands using carracks?
Did you build/use any amphibious elephants?


Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 147 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless

• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

First post? Did everyone else give up?

Space win 1943AD.

In 1AD I was trying to beeling optics while also making sure I could bulb astronomy as soon as I discovered optics.

I finally got to optics in 880AD, and instantly had a panic because a Viking caravel showed up – with 4 movement points . For a moment I feared the Vikings had already circumnavigated, then I remembered trading posts.

880AD is probably quite late, but I had done it with two scientists to bulb astronomy instantly – and I had another scientist almost there, which I suspected would useful to bulb education. The instant I had astronomy, I swapped out of caste system so I could whip galleons. My 5 cities gave me 5 instant galleons, and more whipping gave me a 6th and several explorers a couple of turns later. I sent 4 of the galleons NW/NE/SW/SE with the aim of finding all the AIs as fast as possible. Luckily they were a turn ahead of the Viking caravel, so I managed to circumnavigate – probably only just in time. The remaining two galleons I loaded with explorers and sent them looking around the local area to see if I could settle anywhere. I didn’t really fancy my chances invading an AI from the sea with only 5 cities to whip troops in, but luckily I quickly discovered the big islands to the North, NorthWest and South, and so expanded to 10 cities.

The main problem now was that it was clear my research was significantly behind most AIs. I somehow kept up in tech with careful trading, and using my 4th scientist (who arrived soon after astronomy) to bulb education. I was hoping I might be able to leverage that to take steel from liberalism, which would give me enough of a military edge to start launching land invasions, but in the end had to content myself with taking chemistry from liberalism and self-researching steel – Zara Yacob was too near to liberalism and I couldn’t risk losing it to him. So about 1300AD I got to steel, and immediately went into military mode.

So from 1300AD onwards the game basically became a conventional attack-the AIs game – but much later than normal. I took Pacal first, then Wang Kon (loads of wonders in the capital, which I had my eye on as the national epic city). Wang Kon brought Zara Yacob into the war which turned out to be a complete pain because at the time he and I were the only civs with combustion. In the end I had to very carefully sneak units onto a couple of secondary islands he’d settled on to raze cities so I could get peace – and I lost quite a few destroyers in the process. Then I took out Charlemagne, then Justinian. And finally, even as I was building the spaceship around 1900 AD, I attacked the Vikings purely because I was sharing some islands with him and under cultural pressure. On the upside, sailing troops around meant the wars were over quite quickly. I was particularly proud of the Pacal assault: Landed my entire army (about 30 units) ranging from maces up to tanks on his island, and managed to completely conquer the whole island in 10 turns or so just with that initial invasion force - without ever needing to land any more troops. And that was despite that he started by launching quite an effective counter-attack with artillery, during which I lost several tanks.

1943 AD is a very late space win, but I guess that’s inevitable with the initial game setup. I really can't think of any way I could've done it quicker Zara Yacob wasn’t that far behind me in building his ship, so I don’t think it would’ve been too many turns before I’d have been reporting a spaceship loss. Looking at the map, I think he started with a rather more generous starting island than everyone else (and much more generous than we did. Hint hint Deckhand), so I’m going to hazard a guess that he will have been a headache in quite a few people's games (Well, it makes me feel better, imagining that anyway).

Picture of my final land attached. I managed to stay just a whisker below the domination limit for quite a long time.

 

[Deckhand]

Did you build any war elephants?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Did you build any war elephants?

None. Pre-astronomy there was no point building anything except warriors to fogbust, then make people happy under hereditary rule.

Post astronomy, What I saw of the AI defences convinced me that any invasion prior to at least trebuchets would be very painful. And if I can build trebuchets, I can also build macemen, crossbows and pikemen, rendering war elephants basically obsolete. (Actually I didn't invade until I had cannon).

In fact, I liberally traded away my ivory for badly needed cash and happy resources. So you could probably say that some of the AI must've built a few war elephants courtesy of all the ivory on our starting island

Oh, and sorry, but I didn't build a single carrack. There was no point when I got astronomy the same turn that I got optics, seeing as galleons are faster, stronger, and can carry more units.

 

[LinkDinkin]

I thought it was a fun game. I made a lot of mistakes, but managed to pull off a (late) victory. 1985 space race. No one else launched by that date so it wasn't that close... but still close.

Did you build any war elephants?

I built about a dozen elephants along with a dozen carracks for initial recon and barb destruction, but none managed to get promoted enough to become the fabled amphibious elephants. Most ivory got traded for and later the camps all became workshops.

What went right:

1. Got to optics pretty quick and easily circumnavigate the globe. I was in pretty good shape tech-wise when I met everyone.
   
2. Settled big islands North, South, and the one west of Justinian
   
3. Built MoM and used made good use of it 3x (no other wonders built or captured in the whole game....)
4. Everyone was angry with each other. There were long stretches where everyone was either at war or plotting.
   
5. Incorporated Sid Sushi and grew some massive cities
6. With huge pop, controlled UN and put an end to a late Pacal DoW

What could have gone better:

1. Didn't heed advice of @DynamicSpirit and others and settled islands too quickly, completely wrecking my economy twice. I had settlers on islands waiting to settle, but couldn't because I'd go into strike. Gifted a couple later.
   
2. Tech trading evaporated after the money issues and I barely crawled to Astro. That plus courthouses got things moving again.
   
3. I thought my 17 cities (twice as many as any AI) would deter a DoW, but it didn't. Ragnar invaded my island to his South. I recaptured, but when I tried advancing on his mainland, I totally botched the attack. He got frigates right as I approached and my galleons and carracks took a devastating hit. He mopped up my remaining troops with nothing gained. Finally had to settle a crap city and gift it to him to end things. Incredibly, in the whole game, I didn't capture a single city that wasn't razed (barbarian) or recaptured from Ragnar. Surely this was the biggest opportunity missed in my game.
   
4. After squeezing in 3 more cities (20 total) I thought I could sit back and tech to space, but it went slower than expected. I probably built too many buildings like banks and feitorias and not enough gold/research.
   
5. Missed the Internet by 1 turn
   
6. Kept around some Lumbermilled forests for space part city, but forgot to use them

Not sure...

1. I stayed in Hereditary Rule almost the whole game. There was a -12 from Emancipation and it was hard to keep the huge cities happy. I built a lot of troops for garrison thinking it would also help with my power rating so as to avoid getting declared on again. Final unit cost was 76, which doesn't seem like much considering massive late game GNP. Still undecided if that was wise.

Final land map - nowhere near domination limit

Info screen - probably didn't need all those buildings

Everyone plotting or at war

 

[Alquest]

I had fun! I wont submit as I have read Dynamics post while in the 1770. Got to a 1991 space lost. First time I lived long enought to see AI win with spaceship on this level. Thx!
Zara was dominating, 5k point as we all hovered around 2100-2600.
I tried Flippy approach as described so well in a recent Deity GOTM. And that was fun! Went well untill I failed to get monarchy and Optics way too late. But fast settler, Acedamy, bulbing education, phi etc is a great route. Settle first city 3 tiles from capital, 3th city 2 tiles from 2nd city. Also my first time that all AI were happy with me, some friendly. Not getting dragged into pointless (trade)wars is nice. So many mistakes, not taking the north island, not completely taken the south island. Not taking the monarchy happy bonus.
But as the game went I slowly went from last to 3th. Which is new to me.
Other things, all ai had founded a religion. Zulu Juduism and AP, and me the only juduism city other than zulu. Everyone hates Zulu and he ended war 2 times with AP vote. 1 other war was ended by UN after 2 turns or so. That same UN prevented me to spam tanks, slavery was not allowed i the 1940.

 

[Pangaea]

Haven't retired a game before, ever, so let me know if I didn't do it the right way. Submitted the last game I had, from around 3 weeks ago, in 1110AD, while smashing up Justinian.

Loaded the save now, to see if it was feasible to complete it with just a week left, but it's not really, not with my pace. I'm also busy with some other games at the moment.

Looking at the game and dates and such, I bulbed Optics in 350AD, queued up 4 Carracks, whipped them next turn, and sent them off in different directions. Met some AIs soon after and was able to tech trade. But not much, since everybody else were isolated too, without contact (apart from Zara who met his southern neighbour), so I was only able to trade for "always tradable" stuff like Monarchy and Alpha.

Didn't build an Academy with the first GS, as is my norm, since it would be pretty pointless with such a weak capital. Preferred to use them for Optics and Astro instead. Not sure if I used both others for Astro (working on 400 now), but suspect I did.

Have built a pile of elephants and catapults, and now some trebs too, and declared on Justinian. Have taken a handful of cities, although he sadly got Longbows early (probably due to his favourite civic). Taking on Zara or Ragnar would have been easier as they didn't have longbows (Ragnar still doesn't, somehow), but they were farther away making reinforcements difficult -- plus of course costs post-capture. The fact Justinian had a collection of Gems also made the decision easier (although he stupidly settled on top of one of them). He has a few cities left on his island, but he's basically done for. If I continued the game, that is

Haven't settled any of the barb-infested continents yet, as I had to go all-in for Justinian. With so few cities, and small ones, I had to use them all to get out catas and elephants. Maybe there would still be time to settled the continents - depends how quickly the AIs with Astro would do it (only Pacal so far).

None of the captured cities have come out of revolt yet, but although I had luscious Astro trade routes, the tech rate is 178 , so well below 200. Not great, that's for sure. Working on Education. Any kind of victory would take a long time here, and much effort, so I decided to throw in the towel instead. Maybe I could have got a good result as I was able to get Optics and contact fairly early, but all wins would take a long while here from my current position. Maybe UN-diplo would be the most feasible to be honest.

An unusual map and concept, certainly, but like I wrote in the 1AD thread it was also rather boring up to Optics. No contact, no diplo, no trading, no warring .

Congratulations and well done to the people above who finished the game, and the other silent ones.

Situation report upon retirement in 1110AD:

Spoiler :

 

[greatbeyond]

Space loss to Zara in 2003AD.

This was an interesting game and after playing several test games I realized that "No Tech Brokering" was going to be a problem perhaps even worse than the isolated start. I went for The Great Library from the start with the usual minor mistakes and completed it in 325BC. The next stop was a beeline for Optics after getting Alphabet (to speed up research). Here I should have used a GS to bulb Optics, but I felt it was a waste of beakers and I knew that I would be ahead of the AIs from testing the game . This meant I didn't finish Optics until 770AD the turn after a Viking Caravel showed up at my door. I already had a couple of Triremes waiting to be upgraded to Carracks. They set off in opposite directions but yet again Ragnar circumnavigated the world about 2 turns before me. Settlers were built to populate the better islands and expansion was the name of the game. My exploring Caracks revealed that the AIs were well advanced and had impressive armies. This is what led to the decision to expand peacefully rather than by conquest.

I was going straight to Astro after Optics but screwed myself when i got a tech (Mono?) that made me lose the ability to use a second scientist to complete Astro. It took a while to research the remainder of Astro and... Ragnar researches it the turn before I get it. I hold on to it for awhile hoping to get the best spots to settle. One of the other AIs researches it and I quickly trade it away to get some needed techs. Things are looking pretty good at this point and I am building up my military for eventual use now that I am just behind the tech leaders.

I have green and gold smiley faces ( ) except for Pericles and The HRE, but they are behind in techs and were not able to get any expansion. Zara is way ahead of everyone else. Now, throughout the previous 100 turns or so Shaka, who has the AP, has been trying to pass resolutions to stop trade with Pacal who has been a good friend and who I have recently signed a defensive pact with . Out of nowhere Zara attacks and apparently buys Korea and The HRE into the fight. Shaka, who I would have expected this from, remains one of my best friends now and throughout the game .

I am able to threaten a pair of Korean cities that are on one of the islands with me. Yet again the RNG gods strike and seven Curassiers attack a musketman and a Mace. the first 3 attacks at 55% or so fail to put much of a scratch on the musketman and after the 7th attack the two defenders are still at about half strength. It is off to regroup. Eventually Korea and The HRE both take peace after about 7 or 8 turns at war. This leaves Zara with one city on the island just north of our homelands and I have built up enough military to take his city. At this time he is still demanding I give up one of my cities to take peace. I have enough cash at this point and I am exploring giving him a little of it to take peace so I can upgrade my troops to cavalry and infantry which should bring me up to parity with him.

Here is probably where the win is lost. I open the dialogue with Zara and put in various amounts of cash to see whether it is worth continuing the fight or taking a cheap peace. Zara agrees to 170 gold and next thing I know my best city, not on the home island, which happens to have the Forbidden Palace in it has been given to Zara. At this point words are said that are very unpleasant ( ) and I am considering just resigning the game. I realize that in the back and forth I must have forgotten to delete the city he wanted from the peace offering. He now has one of my best cities though at least the troops are just moved nearby. I resolve to take the city back as soon as I can. Things have turned around a little, research has surged, and relations with the AIs are back to the good.

Despite having a defensive pact with Pacal, and voting repeatedly against every resolution that Shaka has proposed against Pacal, he attacks and before I have a chance to blink Pacal has taken one of my cities on one of the smaller islands. I rush to get as many defenders as I can and the situation stalemates. With good friends like these who needs enemies.

I have moved into 2nd place in score, but I am sick of this crap. It seems the AIs are more concerned with keeping the human from wining than trying to win themselves. Only Zara actually gained anything from declaring on me, so I guess it made sense for him. The other AIs instead of trying to block him, seem to just give up. Zara launches a spaceship and I have had enough. I declare war against both Zara and Pacal and take 4 of Zara's cities that are not on his homeland. I also take 2 of Pacal's cities. I know it is too little too late. I am in the lead in score but without enough time to mount an amphibious invasion of Zara's home island, and with probably zero chance of Zara's spaceship failing to make Alpha Centauri.

I think the "No Tech Brokering" combined with the resource rich islands the AI started with allowed them to get way ahead in techs. I assume this was meant to make our position a little weaker.

Thanks for providing us with a challenge.

 

[Xcalibrator]

All Space races?? I went for Dom, 1826. I attacked Ragnar the last turn just to take a few cities and bump the score, but it was down to just him and Shaka not dead or vassalled. Moving all those units around was slooow. I probably should have gone for Space, too (after a bit of warring, of course ). Thanks for game, DH!

By the way, after the Dom Win screen came up, I captured another couple cities in that same turn before saving/quitting, for fun and profit. I've never been clear on whether that's kosher or not, and decided to live dangerously! Apologies if that isn't cricket, and no problem if my game is DQ'd--I only play for fun these days.

 

[Pangaea]

Pretty sure that's not allowed, at least if the rules for BOTM is similar to the Hall of Fame. "One more turn..." -> Save game. No other funny business. Maybe they'll be lenient though? No idea.

Suppose "immediately" could cover this, but it's not worded as clear as it could be.

To enter, you must complete all fields in the form and upload a manually saved file (...) from the turn immediately AFTER the victory or defeat in all cases except a conquest defeat (see note 1 below).

 

[Xcalibrator]

Yeah, "Get the victory screen and immediately upload" is how I've always done it, but in some SGOTM games we were allowed to tweak things a bit on the final turn to meet special victory conditions. I tried to upload a second, legal game (the autosave at the beginning of the victory turn) and, not surprisingly, it gave me an error. DH, if you want that one, holler, otherwise do as you will. The extra beating up on Ragnar gave me an extra 3 or 4 thousand points. I enjoyed the game, and that's the important thing.

 

[Deckhand]

Yeah, "Get the victory screen and immediately upload" is how I've always done it, but in some SGOTM games we were allowed to tweak things a bit on the final turn to meet special victory conditions. I tried to upload a second, legal game (the autosave at the beginning of the victory turn) and, not surprisingly, it gave me an error. DH, if you want that one, holler, otherwise do as you will. The extra beating up on Ragnar gave me an extra 3 or 4 thousand points. I enjoyed the game, and that's the important thing.

I sent a PM to AlanH this morning when I saw your post. I'm hoping the score is based on the beginning of the turn. And the stuff we allow in SGOTM are just related to special SG conditions. Awaiting his reply.

 

[AlanH]

The xOTM final score is based on the state of the submitted save, which doesn't contain any information about the game position at the point of victory. I can set the system to accept a new submission upload using your autosave if you wish. Was that created after the victory was recorded? If so it should give us the correct data.

 

[Xcalibrator]

I can set the system to accept a new submission upload using your autosave if you wish. Was that created after the victory was recorded?

Thanks, Alan, but it's not worth the hassle, unless DH would like to have it for a more complete record. For those interested, it was a Domination win, 1826 around 152k points.

 

[Deckhand]

The xOTM final score is based on the state of the submitted save, which doesn't contain any information about the game position at the point of victory. I can set the system to accept a new submission upload using your autosave if you wish. Was that created after the victory was recorded? If so it should give us the correct data.

Thanks, Alan, but it's not worth the hassle, unless DH would like to have it for a more complete record. For those interested, it was a Domination win, 1826 around 152k points.

Yes, that would be my preference. Alan to reset system and Xcal to upload the correct save. Sorry for the hassle. Thanks.

 

[AlanH]

No hassle for me. I just hit a button to make it possible for you to upload the new save. Unless you do so, your previous upload will not be included in the published results

 

[Xcalibrator]

No hassle for me.

I accept your challenge to make it a hassle! Sorry, I got an error when trying to submit the correct game because it's past the deadline.

 

[Deckhand]

FYI, for anyone reading this thread.
It turned out that there was a difference in the "Score" between the two games uploaded by Xcal, but not in the "Final Score". It seems Final Score comes from IBT after winning, and doing stuff before saving and submitting doesn't affect it. Which is how it should be.
Still, please save and upload immediately. without doing stuff .

 

[da_Vinci]

I think that Buffy can be set to produce a victory save (at least I always see one generated by the game) which I have always assumed is the save before any action in the turn when the victory is announced (which is one turn after the victory is achieved in some cases) occurs, and is the save to submit. I think checking save on exit produces that?

dV

 

[Pangaea]

If that is the auto-save from the start of the turn, that's not a good deal, as if you then open it, the game gets imported into your local Hall of Fame. Have had this happen several times from HoF games, and it's a bit annoying. You can remove it again, but it's a nuisance.