BOTM 16 Pregame. Starts March 15, 2009

[ChrisShaffer]

OK, I'm going to break out of the SGOTM ranks and play some BOTM!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Looks like another in-place for me. Immortal is my true difficulty where I actually lose a decent % of the time, but that can be waylaid entirely by putting out GLH here. AIs are not sharp on arch - I'll probably go the military route like usual since it's true that the dutch have an advantage in that regard on arch...only ragnar is better with his easy amphibious troops and faster ships.

 

[smitsk00]

Immortal may be a bit beyond me at the moment. I am more of a Monarch moving towards Emperor player. I am considering Aventurer . But before I decide...I have not played an Archipelago map anywhere near this level before.. Does an Arch map slow the AI tech rate because of a slower trade rate like in Civ3?

 

[mabraham]

I have not played an Archipelago map anywhere near this level before.. Does an Arch map slow the AI tech rate because of a slower trade rate like in Civ3?

They'll trade techs between themselves at about the same rate once they meet each other. That'll be slower initially, but then at the mercy of the usual diplomatic variations.

Their trade routes will be more profitable since they'll tend to be in coastal cities (harbours and customs houses) and will get the different-landmass bonus more.

Both of those affect the human player too, of course.

 

[Adonias]

Having the starting warrior on a different island is a cute touch.

Settling in place looks like a good move to me. Settling 1S gets you an extra hammer early but fewer mines long term. Unless there turned out to be another resource 3S I don't know that its really worth giving up the Clams.

Also, there may not be many other places on the starting island where you can establish other cities. IMHO it's better to stick with this good spot at the north end of the island and hopefully have room for another decent city in the south, than to move south, maybe get a better capital, but increase the odds that you only get a marginal city (if any) elsewhere on the island.

OTOH, it frees up a nice city spot on the 1T island West of the clams. Not too shabby, and higher yield trade route.

Anyway, Niklas, this looks like terrific fun!! Thnx for the effort!

 

[ZPV]

Here are some test saves. I wasn't able to work out how to give the Adventurer save the 100 gold, but the workboat is there (and for the opponents at Challenger!) and Fishing is missing for Challengers too.

You have to hand-edit the Worldbuilder file.

Umm.. in the "edit city" screen in WorldBuilder, there is a text box with the amount of gold. You could just edit that...

 

[Niklas]

Umm.. in the "edit city" screen in WorldBuilder, there is a text box with the amount of gold. You could just edit that...

Not if you don't have any cities...

... and before anyone suggests it, I did try to add a city, add the gold, and then delete the city again. That caused an immediate Conquest loss, which wasn't really the handicap I was looking for...

 

[ainglis]

Hmm. Immortal is way beyond my capabilities, but the map looks like so much fun I think I'll have to give it a try anyway. Here goes nothing...

 

[Adama]

Hmm. Immortal is way beyond my capabilities, ..... Here goes nothing...

Immortal may be a bit beyond me at the moment.

It's also beyond my level,... ahem,... hmmmmfph,... ah,... well... "at the moment." {Smitsk00, hope you don't mind me 'borrowing' that phrase; it's my kind of optimism!}

My input is not particularly valuable because of the above truism, but I suspect that Astronomy might be needed [or maybe just desirable] even on this Archi map in this game<?> I say this only because of our UU, the East Indiaman.

And, from the mention of Ragnar, if his number comes up during our early scouting {sailin'?}, I suppose he's a good target for an early attempt at elimination, because he may be the most dangerous opponent on this map?

Good luck to all,
Adama

 

[bestje]

I can see this not being a win but after somehow deleting my save in BotM 15 I feel obliged to see this one through!

Also who can resist getting to be the long rumoured pirate civ

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Here are some test saves. I wasn't able to work out how to give the Adventurer save the 100 gold, but the workboat is there (and for the opponents at Challenger!) and Fishing is missing for Challengers too.

The save files do not have Lock Modified Assets selected, and thus aren't compatible with my BUG Mod installation. Is there any way you could recreate them with the assets locked, so the BUG Mod files will be prevented from loading?

 

[Welnic]

Do you still get the circumnavigation bonus on toroidal maps?

 

[PaulisKhan]

If it is any consolation to people struggling with Immortal difficulty, this is the best possible scenario in which to learn it (and possibly played a role in the creation of this BoTM).

I'd argue that Willem on an archi map is a better way to move up to higher difficulties than a roman/inca rush on a pangaea map. The AI techs slightly slower so it's not a massive shock and you're significantly safer from invasion (even if they catch you unawares you can usually retake a lost city without much trouble, once their transported SoD is eliminated they tend to just get confused).
The early focus should definitely be on securing the GLH so run some practice games first to find a build order that works for you. Then just expand as rapidly as you can. With the "no vassals" option enabled you don't even have to worry about colony expenses!
Try and adopt the AP religion and whip some temples/monastaries into all your little useless seafood cities. The +4 bonus hammers will allow you to build whip/build your dykes later in the game (which can otherwise be virtually impossible in a city with few/no land tiles to work).
Once the dykes are in place the world is your oyster. Either use those hammers to build a massive modern army/navy and take over the world, or hunker down and tech your way to space. Even on Immortal the AI will rarely have the production capacity to match you once your dykes are in place.

The Pyramids can be tough to get if you've chopped everything into securing the GLH but it's an extra bonus if you can secure it, running a couple of scientists in each seafood city in combination with your traderoutes will help keep you teching along happily.

 

[Adonias]

If you want GLH, sailing-mining-BW-masonry has a lot to be said for it.

fishing(for the chalengers)-mining-BW-sailing-masonry

worker(for the chalangers till fishing),wb,wb,worker,lighthouse(whip),use overflow on headstart on GLH. Time it right and without being industrious GLH could be up at turn 65... (too late at deity btw )
Possibly fit in a warrior

 

[Markus5]

Do you still get the circumnavigation bonus on toroidal maps?

Yes.
I played some test games. The AI did it very quickly.

 

[Markus5]

In some test games, the AIs filled space very quickly. I think it will be a challenge to expand fast enough and still build the GrLightHouse.

 

[mabraham]

In some test games, the AIs filled space very quickly. I think it will be a challenge to expand fast enough and still build the GrLightHouse.

You can't match the AI early expansion rate on Immortal+ without it...

The save files do not have Lock Modified Assets selected, and thus aren't compatible with my BUG Mod installation. Is there any way you could recreate them with the assets locked, so the BUG Mod files will be prevented from loading?

I don't think I can do that easily, because that's something you select before map generation occurs, so I'd have to redo the whole thing. I had thought leaving it unchecked was needed to access the WorldBuilder, but I haven't exactly experimented recently. If there's more demand, perhaps someone else could make such a save - that way I get a non-spoilered test game to play to!

 

[smitsk00]

If it is any consolation to people struggling with Immortal difficulty, this is the best possible scenario in which to learn it (and possibly played a role in the creation of this BoTM).

I'd argue that Willem on an archi map is a better way to move up to higher difficulties than a roman/inca rush on a pangaea map. The AI techs slightly slower so it's not a massive shock and you're significantly safer from invasion (even if they catch you unawares you can usually retake a lost city without much trouble, once their transported SoD is eliminated they tend to just get confused).

So the answer to my earlier question is.. yes...but with qualifications?.........I will try contender....

 

[Deckhand]

If it is any consolation to people struggling with Immortal difficulty, this is the best possible scenario in which to learn it ...

Thanks for the encouragement. I've never played Immortal and was strongly leaning toward Adventurer class. Plus I managed to lose the recent Monarch Archipelago GOTM. Should adventurers use the WB to explore or get clams immediately or get fish asap (my choice after going around the isle to NW)? [Likely moot as I may go contender].
Now I just need to finish BOTM15.

 

[budweiser]

What about an Oracle/MC slingshot for Colossus?

It should bring in tons of commerce. Mining/BW with a boat build. Whip worker and begin teching to Oracle.

Maybe its possible to get GLH and Colossus?