BOTM 18 First Spoiler - 1 AD

Forgive the noob a dumb question, but why is my Great General meter at zero when I have been kicking barbarian butt? Does it only count experience gained against other civs?

Like you can't become a great general by killing panthers with axes? It's harder to do than you might think!
 
Unless I am wrong you seem to only have 4 cities by 1AD, while I have 6 & I am not yet quite boxed in at 1 AD. Another factor with the GW, if the barbs cannot enter your lands, they will hamper the AI more, or at least it seems that way. I did want the GSPy & hope to make espionage a significant factor in my game.

I suspect you did not settle ON the copper like I did. The copper changes the picture dramatically if you can mine it by giving you enough hammers to get a settler out AND build the GW. I had only the whip to work with, really. I tried for the GW in my 3rd (iron) city because I recognize the benefits you name and thought they would be useful, but the fact is that by the time it was built (6 turns before me), the barb swarming was all done and it would have been redundant, unfortunately.

If you can get it early enough its surely great for raging barbs settings... and my :hatsoff: to you.
 
I had very little problems with Barbs as I built the GW. The downside is that I had time to build only 1 other city. I have almost no production, am completely surrounded and everyone else just keeps rolling huge stacks through my land. I did get botht he copper and the iron between the two cities. Not that I can build much with them.

Now I don't feel so bad about my four stinking cities. If the first EVER Deity EQM master struggled with these settings, then they were challenging indeed. Thanks for sharing!
 
Challenger save -- Domination or conquest

I had close to an optimal start, but after about 1000BC, I think I made some pretty bad decisions, primarily because I hadn't decided on my victory condition yet. Bad mistake. Anyway...my plan was to beeline BW to see if there's copper around and to be able to poprush. After getting creamed in Erkon's raging barbs, I wanted the GW, and the best way to get it I decided was to poprush axes with overflow into the GW. If no copper, then I'd research archery and poprush archers with overflow into the GW. One other detail that turned out to be significant--I decided my warrior was going to explore NW about 4 tiles, then NE about 4 tiles, then back home SE and SW. Here's what happened.

4000BC I decided to settle 1NW for one basic reason--I didn't want 8 fps in my FC, which would add up to -3:health:. I could see that if I settled 2N on the hill, the fog was hiding the 8th fp. 1NW also included a corn farm for +1 growth while working 2 farms and 2 hills, so that was the best location for me.
3680BC mining
3600BC 25g from goody hut
3600-3280BC going NE, I ran into the mountain range and had to decide whether to go around to the norht or not. I decided not. I wanted him at home. Then surrendipity struck. A lion appeared and my warrior re-routed north. Then he spotted grey-white borders. I went to the forest hill to peek and behold, there was a worker, but alas in the inner FC. But it was finishing a road and the cows were between it and my warrior. Next turn, the worker offered himself in sacrifice. The road meant my warrior was vulnerable, but I decided it was do or die. I did and scored a worker. The warrior escorted the worker back around the mountains and encountered a third goody hut. THis I popped with the worker, of course, and BINGO--I got Masonry!!! Life couldn't have been better for my GW plans!
3160BC farm1
3120BC BW with copper in my FC!!! Things were just getting better and better.
2920BC copper connected. I didn't need the copper yet, but I was still at war and couldn't undo it, so I wanted to be able to poprush an axe if necessary. With the second worker, I figured I could afford the non-optimal growth.
2720BC potter complete. I wanted to poprush a granary before poprushing my axes.
2640 granary complete
2600 gold mined. I would only be using it to put less than 5 hammers into the axe builds for a 2pop, but I also needed the happiness.
2520 Hunting done. I decided I was going to build a quick scout for more goody huts (never got any more) and also research AH in case there were also horses in the FC, so this would make it a bit cheaper.
2320 axe1
2200 AH
2160 axe2
1720 GReat Wall complete
My notes are scanty from here on. I quickly poprushed a settler to get the marble to the north. Then I let my whip unhappiness drain off, while I built axes. At this point I made bad decisions. I should have either axe-rushed a neighbor or built a library and a GS. I did neither, but instead wallowed in the middle.
1000 Alphabet
One more mistake I made was to decide to research to Literature for the Heroic Epic. WHen I got there, I changed my mind and didn't build it, because I couldn't decide where. I should have bee-lined COnstruction for catapults instead. Another ignorant mistake was when I got my first Great Spy, I let it hibernate. I forgot about it being invisible so I could use it for exploration and perhaps to steal techs with. At about 500BC I stopped my first session and didn't paly for a while. During that time, I realized I should use the Great Spy (I've actually never had one before, so it's all experimentation for me.) SO I did plant it in a neighbor and built some spies. The first one got caught. The second one made it to a city, but it wouldn't let me steal any techs (or so I thought). So I used it to cause a revolt and I captured that city. Then the spy vanished. Next turn I found it back in Lowther Castle. Surprise, surprise. The next time I got him to a city, I discovered that I could steal techs after all, just by clicked on that and getting a selection of techs to steal...

I have to open the save to give my 1 AD stats.
 
Settled 2N. Researched to BW, started to build axemen just in time for barbs, though I lost a few improvements and was very close to lose my capital (had an archer vs warrior battle).

Got beaten to GW, decided to continue building axes to fend off barbs and then go on justinian, who I happened to steal a worker from, for fun.

Built up a strong force backed up with 2 catapults. Went for town north (I was very early locked out of territory, had only one town, but on par on tech), got its defenses to 0%, attacked and lost all but 3 of my axemen (had roughly 10). Lots of bad rolls (at least three losses with >90% win), and made the mistake of not sacrificing my cats despite justinian having brought quite a lot of units in town.

Took time to rebuild my forces, wanted to go pillaging but Justinian kept building too many units. Fended off his 15 units strong invasion force (mix of axe and swords), came with new stack to same town up north. Brought it to 0 defense, sacrificed catapults, then AGAIN had a stream of bad rolls, this time losing 3 units at >95% win. This proved too much for me, resigned the game, will need some time before coming back to Civ...
 
Sorry to hear that, MTC... Nothing like a little hate from the RNG to make you wanna throw the game out the window. Still, if it makes you feel any better, you will undoubtedly go down in virtual history as the ultimate villain in the new national mythology of the Byzantine empire. :D
 
Contender save.

I settled 1 west, because I wanted the extra commerce from working the oases at the start.

I popped Fishing from a hut (allowing me to work that lake, if I really wanted to :mad:), so my early tech path was: Mining-BW-Pottery-AH-Sailing-Masonry.

I came across an undefended worker in Byzantine lands, and I just couldn't resist. 10 turns later, I had a peace treaty, an extra worker, and a very annoyed neighbour. :lol:

I settled Edirne to the north, with cows, ~3 flood plains and an oasis in 2120BC.
This gave me extra health (I hadn't spotted the corn yet :blush:), and was a useful city in its own right.

I used whip overflow from Axemen to build the Great Wall in Istanbul in 1120BC, while Edirne built a Library and generated a Great Scientist for an Academy in the capital (Academy built in 750BC).

Most of the good land had already been taken at this point (although there was some free nearby desert), and my scouting told me that Ramesses didn't have copper, iron or horses. I whipped my two city empire furiously, and mustered a force of 13 Axemen to invade Egypt in 175BC (I'll admit that I was a little cautious because of Aggressive AI). I've captured Thebes, and Heliopolis by the furs by 1AD, although both are still in revolt, and while I heal and reinforce, I can see that I will be able to capture all Egyptian cities in this war.

My research is about 55bpt at 1AD, and I am 5 turns from Civil Service.

I will put the Herioc Epic in Istanbul, so with Bureaucracy, I will be able to use the 2pop-whip trick on Janissaries.
 
Tough game, will tell my story when next spoiler is out.
To be honost, only real way to make this game 'easy' is going for mids, didnt do this tough, and can only say this in retrospect.
Biggest problem is production in this game.

Made one giant mistake later, killed me immediately.
 
I went to the forest hill to peek and behold, there was a worker, but alas in the inner FC. But it was finishing a road and the cows were between it and my warrior. Next turn, the worker offered himself in sacrifice. The road meant my warrior was vulnerable, but I decided it was do or die. I did and scored a worker.


Just to verify because I have never been quite sure about worker steals... this implies a DoW to grab the worker correct??

forgive my stupidity..
 
Just to verify because I have never been quite sure about worker steals... this implies a DoW to grab the worker correct??
Yes, indeed. Always a bit risky. Especially when the mapmaker says that the AI units have been altered...
 
Yes, indeed. Always a bit risky. Especially when the mapmaker says that the AI units have been altered...

But very satisfying if it works out...an early extra worker is sweet....I got mine from Justinian! :D
 
Phoo I suck.
Too frustrated to read the other threads here. Maybe I will before continuing my game. From glancing at first couple, some others did poorly like me (but not as) and others did much better.

Lowlights:
Settle 2nd city in 1AD (my current turn). AIs have grabbed most of the land.
Great Wall built by Hammurabi Turn 75 - I have 7 turns to go.
Oracle built by Hammurabi Turn 88 - I have 8 turns to go
Gilgamesh discovers Confucianism (Code of Laws) the same turn. :confused:
I am bottom statistically in every area. Well, AI gets a (10%?) advantage at Prince, but I conclude I suck.
Good news: lost a couple warriors and farms, but no archers or axemen to the barbarians. They should stop coming soon - most of land is settled by AIs. Settled 2N as planned, a nice location.

Here is my plan (with results) posted a couple hours ago:
Spoiler :
Adventurer: success, loaded the Adventurer save
I want to a) win and b) have fun. Recent xOTMs: loss, abandon (may return to it, may not, will submit), win (130/150), loss winning is TBD; failure to have fun (so far)
Settle 2N; 2nd city on copper or stone; success
settle toward north failure, space occupied before I built a settler
Assimilate one northern neighbor, make friends with the other failure, everyone hates me because Gilgamesh asked me to convert to Confucianism and now nobody (incl. him) is in it
Build: worker (gold mine), warrior, warrior, warrior, archer, archer, settler, something like that then axeman, axeman, settler
Tech: Mining, Hunting, Archery, Masonry?, Bronze Working - did as planned here
Build Great Wall - settle Great Spy, get Great Generals big failure
Domination Victory well, still the goal and still possible I may be at bottom, but it is Prince level, we will see


Edit:
neglected to mention: no events (for me); only hut was hostile, at least my warrior survived

Well, I am doing worse than most, but some are doing worse than me. It is discouraging that those doing better aren't confident of winning.

New Plan:
Spoiler :
Spam settlers to settler corners of my crappy desert, get to at least four cities before AI takes them all. Maybe use a whipping economy. Somehow get a religion others like. Choose sides. Avoid being DoW'd or survive it. Get Catapults and Swordsmen. Maybe Janissaries will save the day. I would like to get the Great Library, but after losing other wonders, will focus on troops and hammans.
 
Assimilate one northern neighbor, make friends with the other failure, everyone hates me because Gilgamesh asked me to convert to Confucianism and now nobody (incl. him) is in it
Then get OUT of it ASAP!!!

Spam settlers to settler corners of my crappy desert, get to at least four cities before AI takes them all. Maybe use a whipping economy. Somehow get a religion others like. Choose sides. Avoid being DoW'd or survive it. Get Catapults and Swordsmen. Maybe Janissaries will save the day. I would like to get the Great Library, but after losing other wonders, will focus on troops and hammans.
There are some sites that can work 3 oasis'...try to find them!
 
Hi there, long time reader on these forums first time I have ever made an entry so i apologise if what i say seems unclear.

I never usually take these Game of the Month's very seriously due to the fact i never appear to be very good at them lol :(

However, I have had a certain degree of success in this one...

Spoiler :
...by rushing Ramasses and founding my first city west of his capital, way south of the starting location of the flood plained desert. May have got a little lucky with his garrison assignments when Egypt founded their 2nd city. but i settled 5 tiles west and one tile north of Thebes (just to the right of the fur) copper also spawned in the BFC. and basically just played the 'Neighbor from hell' role on Ramesses who seems to be a bit of a carebear early on. so I did all i could to take him down.

I settled and quickly captured Ramesses' worker with my starting warrior to save me making a worker myself. quickly made; 2 warriors 3 axes and 3 archers. promoted one archer for hill defense and fortified the copper, other archer on the city and i quickly went for Thebes, when i took the worker earlier on he had 3 or 4 archers defending the city but by the time i returned he moved two in order to fortify his new city, i was able to kill the two archers and take Thebes, quickly made a peace, built up a few more axes and then re-declared war and eventually took Memphis as well.

suffered a -1 Saladin, declare war on friend thing. but the other civs didnt care (may not have had time to meet him)

struggling in terms of techs but the land is much more favorable where I am. currently attempting to expand into all of the land that ramesses would have held, but obviously due to time consuming act of taking his two cities the other civs have had much more time to colonize their areas so i will probably be at a significant disadvantage for a while.

I am not sure how the barbarian system works in this game regarding spawns and who they attack, but i have had very little in terms of serious problems with them, perhaps because i am not in the middle of the map taking the brunt of their attacks.

Think it is very unlikely that i will win the game, I never do with these GotM but it appears a rush tactic can work particularly for people who are better at mid/end game than I am.

currently have 4 cities and about to found two more.

 
Think it is very unlikely that i will win the game, I never do with these GotM but it appears a rush tactic can work particularly for people who are better at mid/end game than I am.

currently have 4 cities and about to found two more.

Don't be so sure. If you build a couple more cities and focus on a scientific military advantage to begin capturing enemy cities, you will have a strong chance. Taking already established cities is far more efficient (and rewarding) than taking the time to build a new one and let it grow!! :crazyeye:

science is key. :goodjob:
 
Bleh. I settled way up north by the cows and FP, settled second city down by start. Lost optimal second city by gems near Gilgamesh by a few turns. Beat of the Barbarians, but now I only have 4 cities and nowhere to expand. Kinda sucks. And when I converted to Hinduism, everyone was Hindu. Now I have it in one city and only Saladin is Hindu. Failed an axe rush on Gilgamesh because turn after I went he got LB. Next turn Jusinian and Zara Yaqob declare. Oh well. Done with this one
 
Challenger

This is a very interesting game, one of the best GOTMs I played. Lots of different options in the early game, good job Niklas.

I settled 1NW of the start for the same reason as LowtherCastle. I am surprised that very few people settled there, looks much stronger to me then any other site that can be settled on turn 0, because of 1 less unhealthiness. The only disadvantage is loosing coins from working the oasis while building the worker, but loosing food at size 2 is much worse then that. Other location I considered was SW,W (also gets one more health, plus the coins from oasis, but looses 1 turn). Trying to walk out of the desert looks like a bad decision to me; animals appear on turn 5, that is barely enough to reach the green belt, and then you are not very likely to have time to find a great spot; most likely outcome is a city on grass, but without copper and without gold and 5 turns lost, which is even more important with raging barbs. Of course it is possible that someone will take the walk and find a great site, but that would be pure luck, not strategy IMO.

Decided to go for quick GW. Barbs start to spawn between turn 40 and turn 45. if I get the GW built by turn 50 I should be able to survive with just warriors... But the GW can only be built that fast with a nice production tile (copper on a desert hill or the plains tile is fine, copper on flat desert not good enough, unless I work a 3 hammer resourceless desert hill instead of the gold hill, which I don't want to). I am expecting to find copper, otherwise the game would be too difficult, but I didn't know if it will be on flat desert or a better tile. So I went for BW before masonry; after getting BW my further actions will depend on copper location: 1) copper on desert hill or plains: build no defensive units, get GW ASAP, 2) copper on flat desert: build axes then GW, 3) no copper: research archery, build archers, then GW.

Found copper, so went with plan (1). Worker farmed FP, then mined copper, then mined gold, then connected corn to make the city healthy at size 3; meanwhile warrior found Musa and stole his worker. GW was built on turn 50 (2000BC), similar to mt9999. I only had to kill one barb warrior. There was a possibility that I would get unlucky and a massive force of barbs enters my borders between turn 45 and 50; in that case I was ready to upgrade a warrior to an axe with gold popped from huts.

IMO building the GW is cheaper then defending with axes, there is no way you can be safe with 4 axes when you have 3+ cities. But I should say I overestimated its value, didn't have enough time for extensive testing this month to learn how much threat the barbs will pose on these settings. The biggest problem with the early GW is that my first great person will have to be a GSpy. It is rather useless in the early game; stealing techs may be good at deity level, but it is only emperor and we have a gold hill, so I'll get everything I need in trades. ZPV's opening with a late GW and earlier academy looks stronger (according to 1AD stats).

My 2nd great person should be a GS, so I settle a city in the north to grab the nice cow/floodplains site, whip a library there and employ scientists (switch to slavery while settler was moving, of course).

Next goal is axe-rushing a neighbour to get some green land. I considered pumping out the axes with just the capital, but calculated that an extra production city will pay off before I have enough axes, so I founded a 3rd city in the west (grab the plains cow and share copper with the capital). Then both the capital and the 3rd city build granaries, barracks, axes. I didn't found cities in the south, the copper/corn site was nice, but far away and will require a (low production) bridge city or escorting the settler to get past the barbs.

I explored a bit with the GSpy, Gilgamesh had 3 silver hills and furs, nice. I chose him as the attack target even though he is creative and protective. In 300BC, I had 7 axes, he had two defenders in his closest city, and it could be reached in 1 turn. I attack and take the city, but loose 4 axes (Gilgamesh whipped a 3rd defender as expecetd, and one battle was unlucky). Stop and wait for cease fire while building more axes. Now I need to take his capital, he has 3 defenders inside, 60% culture, and I'll need 3 turns to reach it, so he might have 5-6 defenders on the turn of attack, which means I need at least 15 axes. At 1 AD I have 13, planning to attack and finish him off soon.

By 1 AD I researched Alphabet, CoL amd Math, CS is 7 turns away and I have some gold saved. Built an academy in capital in 450BC.

I wonder if it is possible to pull off a CS-slingshot in this game. The oracle was built around 700BC in my game, quite late for emperor. I guess the AI are less inclined to build wonders because of the barbs and/or agressive AI setting. With gold and marble it could be doable.

Statistics:
Code:
		1000BC		1AD
cities		3		4
population	8		18
units		2 warriors	13 axes, etc
strategic res.	copper		copper
luxuries	1		1
health		2		2
great persons	GSpy(not used)	GSpy, GS - academy
wonders		GW		GW
Food		29		44
Production	12		33
Commerce	35		70
Sust. beakers	18		34
GPP per turn	4		16
Gold		81		227
cottages	1, 0 used	2, 0 used
civs killes	0		1/2
time played	3:20		5:30

academy date	450BC
alphabet date	1360BC

Spoiler screenshots (2000BC,1000BC,1AD) :

botm182000bc.jpg


botm181000bc.jpg


botm181ad.jpg

 
jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest domination.


Wow, what a reality check. I suck!

I came here prepared to whine, but after having read the spoilers I realise
- I am not the only one.
- There are some things I did right.


My biggest mistake has been whipping too much. I realised there were no hammers in the initial screenshot, so whipping heavily was needed. Now, once you discover copper and you have a 0food 5 hammers tile available, should you work it or not?
At the time I didn't even stop to think about it. I've read quite a lot about whipping since then and now I realise I should have been working that tile non stop.
What about the gold? I have yet to work it! But 8 commerce is better than 3 hammers, isn't it? So I should have been working gold and copper tiles non stop! Then, only whip food excess without never abandonning those two tiles.
I would have got a lot more hammers that way.
Also I didn't farm my first FP. If you are whipping all out, why wouldn't you want to regrow asap? I never worked too many cottages at the same time.


Settling decision: small mistake1.
After moving the warrior to the hill, I spend 2 hours pondering where to settle, only to make the mistake of settling 1W. 1SW was the correct decision, working an oasis from the very beginning. 1 commerce difference during 5 turns till border pop is 5 coins or half a whole turn of research! The real reason I did that (I'd never admit this to myself, but I can tell you if you promise not to mention it back to me) is I was hoping for horses in the plaisn tile. The reason I used to convince myself was that I wanted to attack North, so the closest the better. Seing I would have got another corn by setttling 1SW was a fair punishment.


Research: Mining-BW-Pott-Wri-Alpha
Builds: Wor-War-War-Granary-War-War-Axe
Worker tasks: Corn, copper, road corn, cottage, road copper (I delayed this to allow more warriors building --> small mistake2, without hunting there's no point!)


Aggresive stance: right decision1.
Had bad luck circling Gilga borders and took too long to find his Worker. Anyway, worker stolen 2920BC.
Justy worker stolen 1880BC.

This aggresion level put them on a defensive stance, without improved tiles and building Archer after Archer, so I had no problem settling N, with copper, silver, 3FP, some hills and a zillion forests.

Gilga: killed my cover warrior fortified in a forested hill in an incredible stroke of luck, setting himself free. I should have spared an Axe from my antibarb force to keep him choked.
Justy: peace, worker steal again 1320BC (lost this one to barbs :(), peace, worker stolen 800BC, peace, steal 2 workers 500BC... you get the idea.



After seen my puny 1000BC stats I decided to settle some more cities right decision2, build a library to hire 2 sci and slow down whipping.

3rd city South, with FPs.
4th SE, 4oasis, 1 corn.
5th NE, cow, 4FP.



Only too late I realised that almost noone had Priesthood, I tried for the CS sling... and failed for 5 turns, after having ignored this possiblity for more than 20 turns (not-so) small mistake3. I never know how to best abuse the easy levels :(



After such a failure I stopped to think right decision3, stopped researching CoL and chose Constr for Cats and currency to pay for them.

At 1AD I have just revolted (slavery, Jewish as Ramses, HR, Theocr) and had a ton of units in the build queue. My first real war would be with Axes and Cats against Justy's Archers.


Stats.

Code:
Date     .         .         .         	1000BC	1AD	1000AD

Cities   .         .         .         	3	5	_
Population         .         .         	6	20	_
Workers  .         .         .         	3	6	_
x/x Units (best, all others) .         	5/9	2/14	_
Best Unit Type     .         .         	Axe	Cat	_
			
Horses   .         .         .         	_	_	_
Copper   .         .         .         	X	X	_
Iron     .         .         .         	_	_	_
Stone    .         .         .         	_	_	_
Marble   .         .         .         	_	_	_
Luxury Resources   .         .         	1	2	_
Health Resources   .         .         	1	2	_
# Great Persons    .         .         	0	1	_
# World Wonders    .         .         	0	0	_
# National Wonders .         .         	0	0	_
			
Food     .         .         .         	23	64	_
Production         .         .         	5	26	_
Commerce .         .         .         	33	87	_
# Sustainable Beakers per turn         	23	46	_
# Culture per Turn .         .         	3	17	_
# Great Person Points per turn         	0	0	_
Gold     .         .         .         	43	16	_
# Religions        .         .         	0	1	_
#/ Cottages Used/Total       .         	2/4	7/9	_
# Civs Killed      .         .         	0	0	_
Time Played        .         .         	7h	8h	_
			
Academy Date       .         .         	550BC		
Alphabet Date      .         .         	1360BC		
Civil Service Date .         .         	_		
Liberalism Date    .         .         	_		
Oxford Date        .         .         	_		
Astronomy Date     .         .         	_		
Biology Date       .         .         	_		
			
Victory Type & Date.         .         	_
Buildings 1000BC: Granary, Monu.
Techs 1000BC: 11, Alpha, Poly,Mason, BW, AH, Pott

Techs 1AD: 25, Alpha, IW, Theo, CoL, Constr, Curr, Monar



All in all, puny empire, failed opportunity with the CS sling, discomfort... but I have kept 2 negihbours in check and I haven't run out of space for settling. A won't win any award but I will win the game. Barbs have been a pain and have pillaged here and there, but nothing serious.

By the way, was this really aggresive AI? I had many of my neighbours Pleased at +1!!!
 
I wonder if it is possible to pull off a CS-slingshot in this game. The oracle was built around 700BC in my game, quite late for emperor.

Might that be because this is a Monarch game? :rolleyes:

:p
 
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