BOTM 26 Final Spoiler

[Dynamic]

jesusin, it's funny to read about your Space Race. But it's normal if you are ordinary not playing it.
I think the same picture will be when I'll play Culture (I played it once many times ago).
I've not played this BOTM.

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, it's funny to read about your Space Race. But it's normal if you are ordinary not playing it.
I think the same picture will be when I'll play Culture (I played it once many times ago).
I've not played this BOTM.

Any advice from you? I'd love to hear it.

What would you change in my game?
How many cities should I have had at 500AD?
After Liberalism, what techs should I prioritize?
Which civics?
Anything else which is important and I haven't even mentioned?

 

[Rusten]

500 AD:
After finishing CS I pursue Music and get the artist 375 AD. I miss the GL by 2-3 turns.
Traded for machinery. Start planning to take out Darius – he won’t be useful as an ally for much longer.
Moai Statues due in 3 turns in the city south of the capital.
Pop: 63. Paper 95% complete.

800 AD:
I’ve whipped ~15 maces. Darius’ cities are defended poorly so I shouldn’t have much trouble capturing the first few (the only good ones).
Traded for compass (and feudalism) ~550 AD and started on optics to meet the other continent after education (600 AD).
Finish liberalism 860 AD. I take astronomy to trade with the other continent.
Darius will finish engineering next turn. Attacking after trading for it.
Oxford has been built (1st city).

1020 AD: Captured 4 of his best cities and decide to stop as I’m out of maces. I look to the other continent and spot good land there. Researching communism with Cavalry-techs to follow.
713 BPT at 100% (-173 gold). ~400-450 sustainable as I’ve stayed clear of buildings – the long term plan is to produce wealth for gold.
Other than the 3 towns I captured from Darius it’s all been farms so far. With communism due in 3 turns I will shift towards workshops/watermills.

Captured the core of America 1350 AD and accept capitulation. Mali is next. AL due in 6 turns at which point I will cease building cavalry and install factories and hammer my way to space. I still have no idea that there is no aluminium on the map and with this set-up I won’t be able to use corporations – bummer!

1440 AD: Mali has capitulated (left with a poor city) and Ethiopia is about to suffer the same fate once Gondar falls. I still have a fair amount of cavalry left (don’t lose much) so I decide to DoW on Willem too and capture the MoM to extend my late game golden ages.

1565 AD.
4600 (sustainable) BPT (with GA) – from this point on there’s not much going on..

 

[shyuhe]

Interesting that you went after the other continent before you went after Zara!

 

[jesusin]

Wow, Rusten!

Our game's data are the same till 1000AD (with the only exception of your not moving the palace). Then you start conquering the other continent while I turtle on mine. At 1550AD I'm doing 2200bpt and you are doing double that! Size matters!



One question: Wasn't your Bureaucracy bonus going to waste in the original capital?

 

[Rusten]

The original capital gets extra trade route income and all of the river tiles (excluding hills) are able to get a watermill. Maybe Niklas designed that part carefully (or he was just lucky ). In place bureaucracy is decent as well. It's far from optimal, but I don't think it's worth it to go through the trouble of moving the palace here.

Spoiler :

You want your OU in your bureaucracy city, and with representation you want to run scientists in your Oxford city, so I see it as the best fit. If I were to move it to a completely cottaged city I would only get science from the cottages.

 

[jesusin]

You want your OU in your bureaucracy city, and with representation you want to run scientists in your Oxford city, so I see it as the best fit. If I were to move it to a completely cottaged city I would only get science from the cottages.

Is that a problem? I was always at 100% research.
You could say you wanted to move all the cottages of the other cities to the Oxford city.

Here are my capital and my former-capital.

 

[jesusin]

Hmm, maybe you are focusing too much on Oxford and I am focusing too much on Bureaucracy.

The best way to compare would be to look at their effects directly.

In my game
-Bureaucracy: +19hammers, +54commerce
-Oxford: +226bpt
Can you please post your data?




By the way, I wasn't at a GAge at 1500AD.

 

[Ribannah]

In 1550AD, my game had 2415bpt at 100% science.

The capital gets +38hpt and +46cpt from Bureaucracy (with both Sushi and Mining Inc, but no GA). Oxford is in the capital, and yields +182bpt.

These figures are slightly reduced because of temporary unhappiness due to lack of Emancipation.

Speed was not my priority this time and of course I chose the Challenger save, but even so Rusten's stats are quite impressive.

 

[Rusten]

What I said came out a bit wrong, I didn't mean it as a general rule.
What I meant is that this is a super-city capable in both commerce and running a lot of scientists, so there was not much doubt in my mind that it deserved OU. Having decided to put Oxford there I didn't see the need to go through the effort of making a 'normal' bureaucracy capital.

You have an awful lot of settled specialists there.
Is your data with or without those?

The closest that I have to 1500 AD that's not a GA is 1440. If I remove the settled specialists I have:
Base research of 140, so +140 from OU. 30 base hammers and 50 base commerce (+25 from bureaucracy).
Note: This is a couple of turns before electricity which will add another 12 base commerce.

 

[jesusin]

You have an awful lot of settled specialists there.
Is your data with or without those?

With. No reason to exclude them since their beakers are affected by Oxford bonus.





My feeling is moving capital (and moving Oxford to the new capital) was optimal long-term here, although very costly -I had my second city, from the turn it was settled to 50AD working on (Granary and) Palace-. My expansion could have been better if I hadn't moved the capital.

 

[Rusten]

They matter from a location comparison point of view. They're independent and worth the same in both games, but I chose lightbulbing over heavy settling -- better to compare location output without them.

 

[jesusin]

They matter from a location comparison point of view. They're independent and worth the same in both games, but I chose lightbulbing over heavy settling -- better to compare location output without them.

You are right.
Oxford was giving me 166 bpt then.

 

[Dynamic]

Any advice from you? I'd love to hear it.

What would you change in my game?
How many cities should I have had at 500AD?
After Liberalism, what techs should I prioritize?
Which civics?
Anything else which is important and I haven't even mentioned?

Sorry, not this time.
I don't know this map but space race has the several ways to go.
My post mainly related to your finish description.

Rusten has a strong game so he can give better advice.

 

[mabraham]

Why is it that 4% GE chance translates to 3 GE's over the course of the game? (Third GE used for Golden Age which I starved some cities to get max GA points that are doubled during a GA). In addition, my first GP was a scientist used for Academy, my second GP was also a scientist used for another academy, and then my next to last GP was a Priest who was settled for a few measly Sistine culture points. Everything else was GA's... 4 settled and rest bombed (1-4-1). (Since when is 3GE out of ca 16 GPeople equal 4%???).

It's the chance at the time of popping that determines the type of Great Person. Presumably with the Pyramids generating the first one, there was not much else in the gene pool, so the first GE is no surprise at all. Later ones sounds a little more unlucky... Managing Great Artists for culture victories is something in which you have to invest time and care. *Not* building polluting wonders has some merit.

 

[ngraner42]

Lets say the first GE was a 50% change and the rest were 4% chance.

The probability of getting no engineers is .5(.96)^15 = 27.1%.
The probaility of getting exactly 1 engineer is .5(.96)^15 + .5(15)(.04)(.96)^14 = 44.0%.
The chance of getting exactly 2 engineers is .5(15)(.04)(.96)^14 + .5(105)*(.04)^2(.96)^13 = 21.9%.
The probability of getting 3 or more is 1-27.1%-44.0%-21.9% = 7% or about 1 in 14 games, so the result would not be very unusual.

 

[kcd_swede]

Lets say the first GE was a 50% change and the rest were 4% chance.

The probability of getting no engineers is .5(.96)^15 = 27.1%.
The probaility of getting exactly 1 engineer is .5(.96)^15 + .5(15)(.04)(.96)^14 = 44.0%.
The chance of getting exactly 2 engineers is .5(15)(.04)(.96)^14 + .5(105)*(.04)^2(.96)^13 = 21.9%.
The probability of getting 3 or more is 1-27.1%-44.0%-21.9% = 7% or about 1 in 14 games, so the result would not be very unusual.

OK, doesn't sound so strange then. Especially considering the second GE was probably higher than 4%, I think. It kind of illustrates the importance of avoiding gene-polluting world wonders in your GP producing cities.

 

[Deckhand]

OK, doesn't sound so strange then. Especially considering the second GE was probably higher than 4%, I think. It kind of illustrates the importance of avoiding gene-polluting world wonders in your GP producing cities.

I must have gotten five great engineers:
Mining Inc. + a golden age + three sitting around at the end needing a different flavor for third GA. Getting that third GA might have led to a victory (by completeing final parts before other parts were sabotaged.