[BTS] BOTM 263: Mrs Santa Claus, Deity - First Spoiler - 1AD


Fear him of the pink tie
GOTM Staff
Dec 23, 2005
London, UK
BOTM 263: Mrs Santa Claus, Deity - First Spoiler - 1AD

Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, up to 1AD. How are you surviving deity? Or did you play adventurer?

Reading Requirements
If you are participating in BOTM 263, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
  • You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
  • You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions
  • Do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
  • Do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
  • Do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD (Iron is OK, coal and oil are not)
  • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games
Hello there, first participation so I'm quite eager :bounce:
After many years I took the time to hack my computer and finally made Buffy work :badcomp:

I followed the initial plan and built my first capitol in between deers after deciding production is the most important factor in the early turns (blocking shall come later)
Also went elepult ; trading math for Aestetics.

My attack on Isabella was delayed by 4 turns due to a stoopid peace treaty. Bribed Ragnar on Isa too.
Then Isa bribed Bismark on me (thank you very much: I can take Yue Chi without diplo hit) and Roosevelt (aka the juggernaut) on Ragnar.
Promptly signed peace with Bis.

Score-wise, I'm in the middle of the pack without too many friends :o
I'd like to remove Isabella from her branch, cap her and get on Roosevelt before he goes out of control :hammer:

Spoiler :

^^This is half my army roughly

^^Next city to be taken=glorious Bella cap :yumyum:
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Hey, soundjata, good to see you here! Is this really your first BOTM?! I know you were in a lot of SGOTMs.

I've never gotten the hang of early attacks so I've quietly been trying to keep up with the neighbors. Settled 2*NE with lots of food, and research started with Mining, BW, Wheel. Warrior fogbusting prevented any unpleasantness with barbs. I have 6 cities, 55 pop, 914 pts (smack in the middle) vs Dutch/Spain/Portugal all around 1042 and the Vikings/French/Germans bringing up the rear with <500. Pity they're too far away to be worth attacking at this point. I'm working on Civil Service and missed first-to-Music by 1 turn. :( But I got the MoM (425), Parthenon (350), and Great Lib (100); Moai nearly done, too. Buddhism is dominant, founded by Spain--I'm following that. The Dutch, French, and Germans are Hindu. I'm thinking about (eventually) attacking the Vikings and then go after the Dutch from both sides, or possibly directly for the Dutch. I'll want Engineering/trebs and elephants for that.

Thanks very much for the game, DS! I've started several recent games but haven't come close to finishing any--maybe this time!
So far doing fine. No wars on me, other then that a lot of s***ty stuff.:(

Made the golden move 2NE, 2 deer + gems in the cap :banana:Went Mine-BW etc, 2nd city at the deer+2nd gems. Decided now that marble north was more contested than the center and settled on it 3rd city. Then of all people WvO showed up settling the center of the central area (+/- 2000BC). With his Cre nastyness everything was ruined there now, including the deer of my marble city. On the positive I was shielded from everybody else in the region.
After filling my own branche I started a try for the English SW corner but that was immediately countered.

So moved on with 5 cities. Built GLib. Thought I could get to Music first in 8 turns with no one having Literature yet, but got surprised being passed by. By Victoria as it seems. She culture bombed here SW end city opposite of my cap and snatched the clam. Well by 100AD I will have 500 culture and get it back. The same thing with Colossus. Isabella got MC while I was building and also finished it earlier. But she also did a good job spreading Buddhism to my cities and finish Apostolic. I got a low chance GE and used it to hurry ........ Shwedagon (!!) => switch Free Religion (along with HR) => extra happyness from Buddhism without converting + some always useful extra research.

Several wars started between 500BC and 1AD:
Ragnar on WvO, De Gaulle on Ragnar, Isabella on WvO, Bismarck on Ragnar . All still running 1AD. It may be too late to join in and get that nasty Dutch city before Isabella does, but I will try.
De Gaulle and Bismarck are futile with 3 resp 2 cities. Roosevelt is the most dangerous runaway

At 1AD 5 cities, 46 pop. Research at Music/MC/working on CS, no Construction/Calender/Feud yet. The latter 2 are availbable in trade if needed once I have CS. My cities are in tip-top shape with buildings, so I can move my focus to war or tech now.

To the mapmaker(s) nice job on the City names, the Dutch is amazingly proper I can assure, I assume the German/Spanish/Portuguese too (google translate??)
@soundjata Nice job on the war already, without letting research slip away (being on CS)
Interesting game so far! The warrior initially went NW and then I decided against settling between the deer as it looked like it would invalidate the clams, which it would have. So I went 2NE which proved to be a very nice spot with 2 deer as well and the gems, later even better with the copper and the horses. I think I might have been a bit unlucky that Victoria smacked her third city right in the center before I could even get my first settler out. So initially I expanded to 5 cities until room ran out. Aesthetics served to trade my way back into the game and then went straight to construction and HBR. Isabella was the lone buddhist, so I set my eyes on her. She had quite a stack in her closest city though and was in war mode, but luckily she declared on Victoria as I kind of expected and hoped. She got a city, but shortly after I declared on her with elepults. I got her city in the centre, then dislodged the former English city from her and pushed through to her first city in her branch, while the next should fall in a couple of turns. It has netted me the Hagia Sophia and Shwedagon so far which is nice, as I could take Free Religion when I took bureau just shortly before the BCs. Her city under siege has the Pyramids, so that will be a nice bonus too. I think after that I'll sign peace for some techs and leave her for now at the end of her branch with 2 cities remaining, I'll clean her out later. I really would like to get the English city in the center and maybe her second city at he beginning of the English branch and then steam ahead to cuirs. In general the AIs are warring quite a bit now, the English are still at war with Spain but are also at war with the Germans who were probably dragged into that. The Portuguese declared on the Dutch who got the French into that war, while the Vikings are in war prep mode. Long term Roosevelt looks to be the most powerful in the trunk of the tree, he is most advanced and not bothered with war yet. Techwise I'm doing fine, I have CS on most AIs and have literature, calendar and construction. Roos has music and philo. Right now I have 8 cities and 46 pop, city 9 will be added soon and then I hope to get at least 2 English cities and then things should look quite well. Deity is mostly not quite my cup of tea, but here it looks like I might have a decent shot at it. :)

Here's a pic of the empire, pictured is my stack at Fiesta de Nochebuena. Need a couple of reinforcements before moving in.
Spoiler :

Hey, soundjata, good to see you here! Is this really your first BOTM?! I know you were in a lot of SGOTMs.

I've never gotten the hang of early attacks so I've quietly been trying to keep up with the neighbors. Settled 2*NE with lots of food, and research started with Mining, BW, Wheel. Warrior fogbusting prevented any unpleasantness with barbs. I have 6 cities, 55 pop, 914 pts (smack in the middle) vs Dutch/Spain/Portugal all around 1042 and the Vikings/French/Germans bringing up the rear with <500. Pity they're too far away to be worth attacking at this point. I'm working on Civil Service and missed first-to-Music by 1 turn. :( But I got the MoM (425), Parthenon (350), and Great Lib (100); Moai nearly done, too. Buddhism is dominant, founded by Spain--I'm following that. The Dutch, French, and Germans are Hindu. I'm thinking about (eventually) attacking the Vikings and then go after the Dutch from both sides, or possibly directly for the Dutch. I'll want Engineering/trebs and elephants for that.

Thanks very much for the game, DS! I've started several recent games but haven't come close to finishing any--maybe this time!
Hey Xcalibrator,
Yes it is a first :yup: but indeed I joined several SGOTMs back in the (Plastic Ducks) days. Vibrant memories :thumbsup:
Don't have any experience with BTS Deity so this game is played on a hope and prayer. In saying that, my early game started off fantastic but then things suddenly went very badly - all at once.

So let's start with the fantastic...

I walked NE by E to settle on a coastal square with two gems, two deer, and then the copper in the fat cross.

I got my first settler to the tree trunk, settled on top of the stone and then chopped Stonehenge.

My second settler took a clams and deer site, sharing one of the gems and later getting the horses too. This city was built with 100% commitment to the Great Lighthouse - and when I was 5 turns away I even chopped the forest out from underneath a deer, followed by a whip with two turns to go. Success!

Willem was too quick getting the barb city east of the grassland marble, but I managed to snipe the barb city by the floodplanes and desert pig in Washington's area.

I got an academy in my capital and built three more settlers to fill out my branch. 7 cities, two very helpful realy wonders, academy... things were looking solid.

Then deity diplomacy showed up.

First was asked to join a war with Joao against De Gaulle. Seemed OK, a one-sided fight very far away for me to milk some + relations. Then Isabella (shared borders) demands I switch to Buddism, nearly everyone else is Hindu. I acquiesce cos I've heard things about Izzy being crazy. Given that I've just plonked down 3 settlers, my military is pretty weak at this point.

550 BC, life is good. <End Turn>

Cue Ragnar's face declaring war on me and moving a stack of 6 units (Swords/Axe/Spearmen) from inside Willem's grassland marble city border into a tile 2 spaces from my capital. On the same turn I see that Washington is now plotting and I'm in full panic mode.

I whipped what I could but lost my capital two turns later. Size 7 city now size 2, and no more library or granary. I manage to take it back and clean his units - but I'm feeling pretty bad about this game now. And very wary about what is going to happen on my southern border with Washington.

I decide to abandon my captured barb city in Washington's area and gift it to Izzy, who I managed to bribe into war with Ragnar. Things continue on in a fighty-fighty-manner up to 1 AD. Izzy is helping me keep Ragnar's units mostly contained.
Washington and Willem are getting so much power and tech.

I would love to make a move on Willem but just can't see how it is possible. Maybe once I know what's going on with Washington and have killed enough vikings to atone for the murdered librarians in my capital.

1 AD stats
Cities: 6 (was 7)
Popn: 34
Tech: Drama, Construction, CoL. Gave up on Music part way through (lost by 5 turns). Researching Philosophy.
Standing Army: 3 War Elephants, 10 Gallic warriors, 5 Axemen, 2 Spearmen, 5 Warriors.
Hi JimmyT. There's not much margin for error or bad luck on Deity--sounds like you got the latter with diplo. I was very lucky to have religion shake out the way it did in my game--the only nearby heathen (Wm) had a pretty short border with me, and Ragnar kept him busy. Good luck. Avenge your librarians!!
My initial settling reasoning was similar to @nocho and indeed our first 4 cities are almost the same, except my fish city is to the west (to save all the river tiles) and my 4th city is on the elephants. I was super conservative with scouting, leaving my initial warrior on the western peninsula to prevent any barb city for my guaranteed 2 city spots. Went Mining-BW and settled deer and 2nd gems as fast as possible, but then sat on those 2 cities until turn 50 or so when I settled the fish spot and chopped a monument initially. Seeing the map I planned for Construction rush but using Gallic Warriors and Axemen instead of Elephants, for the most streamlined tech path: Mining-BW-Wheel-Fishing-Pottery-Writing(T51)-Math(T63)-Masonry-Construction(T77, 975 BC). These are really ideal conditions for a fast attack: commerce luxury resources, plenty of happiness from Charismatic and 2 luxury resources, so our cities can sustain a few stacks of whip anger without crashing the economy. Also the UU and traits synergize well with a melee-siege (later gunpowder-siege) combo. We don't have time for AH-HBR, eventually got AH in trade but I haven't even researched Agri yet in 1 AD (haha). I was planning on dumping a 5th city on the front line to just chop more units but Victoria got there a few turns before. Oh well, saving myself a settler I suppose.

Got Alpha, IW, Sailing in trades before Construction was done so I could start on the Gallic Warriors and then just finish up with some rounds of whipping Catapults. Declared on Victoria in 775 BC and proceeded to take 5 of her 7 cities including her capital with Great Lighthouse(!). At this point I could settle for peace, leaving her 2 bad cities on her branch and get her monopoly Metal Casting tech, and go for WvO with his 4 cities around my borders. The drawbacks are motherland unhappiness in most my cities, and more border tensions with other Civs instead of WvO being an easy neighbor and good trading partner (all my espionage points on him). In the end I chose to eliminate Victoria because her two bad cities were close to my capital due to the configuration of the tree, so low maintenance plus GLH trade routes. WvO made that decision for me the next turn anyway by peace-vassaling to Joao.

[Victoria's settling pattern was terrible, she almost killed 2 crab tiles but left one tile free for settling, which I'll take soon for 12 cities total (initial 4, Victoria's 7 plus this crab city).]

After Construction I researched Currency then went up the path to Music (325 BC), then back to CoL - Civil Service (100 BC for the latter). Built Great Library in 350 BC in one of Victoria's cities as I had no chops left in my territory. Traded for Monarchy somewhere along the way and bulbed Philosophy with my first naturally generated Great Scientist. Triggered a Golden Age in 50 BC with the Music artist and did the mega-civic switch to HR/Bureau/Caste/Paci. Will generate 3 more scientists (2x Edu, then Lib) and then maybe stay in Caste after the Golden Age to get at least 1 great merchant. I'm adopting Buddhism for this GA for the Pacifism bonus. Only Isabella has it as a state religion and just built the AP, but also the other AI (Roosevelt - Judaism, all others but Bismarck - Hinduism) are not big zealots anyway.

Diplo took a pretty funny turn in the last 10 turns or so... I think the AI sees other AI already at war as weaker in power because their forces are busy right? So first Isabella declares on Roosevelt, then Ragnar declares on her, then Bismarck on Ragnar, then DeGaulle on Bismarck. Meanwhile Joao with his Pyramids is chilling on top spot with vassal WvO and liked by everyone.

Picture below is 25 AD, forgot to take a 1 AD screenshot (just got Paper, teching Compass for the Lib bulb).

Plan is probably to beeline Steel. I have about a dozen melee units and a dozen catapults left, most with nice promotions because CHA, so upgrading them to Maces-Cannons would be great. On the other hand maybe Cuirs is faster here... part of it depends whether I'm confident about getting to use Lib free tech on Steel.

Spoiler :



On first turn, warrior found elephants and clams. 2NW is a good place for the capital, but I decided that the capture of the territory is more important and worth the risk and moved settler 2NE. The risk was justified - 2 deer + gems = the capital is built. Start from worker-warrior-settler. While I was building settler, a barbarian city appeared near 2nd gems, so I built my 2nd city on marble, 3-5 in the rear (one fish per city). That was the end of my settlement. the nearest AI immediately led along the archer to barbarian city, I was on duty next to a warrior, suddenly I would be lucky. But no, at the last moment 2 archers killed 2 warriors and the city became Dutch. If one of them had lost, I would have had a chance...
According to science, the Wheel-fishing-mines-pottery-BW-writing. The next turn after writing, I received 108 gold from Stonehenge. I could have built it earlier, but it was the money I wanted. I was going to quickly learn mathematics on them (12-13 turns), and then use it to exchange for IW+, but due to the fact that I was the first (!) to discover writing, I was afraid that AI could learn the alphabet for a very long time and decided to play more reliably and learned IW (8-9 turns). Apparently it was a mistake, 3 AI taked alphabet just 3-4 turns after I learned IW (1240 bc). Everyone had IW, no one had mathematics.
Actually, I do not know how to play on deity. In civilization, I can only do 2 things - spam cities and war. On such a tight map and with such a As the leader of aggr/char, my choice of strategy was obvious. I was just wondering how real this in deity.
After studying IW, I stopped science, attention spoiler, for little more than 2024 years) And started building UU. in 775 bc, I attacked Dutch with 8 GW and 2 axes, I planned it little later, but he started chopping down my future forest, I couldn't let him do that! Soon I captured another Dutch city in south (stone, gold, marble, no food). Next, I wanted to attack Spain, but it turned out that Wilhelm considers himself stronger and is not ready to share tech. I had to capture another city (1W from incence), so that he would give me the mathematics (450 bc). 2 turns before that, Ragnar and De Gaulle attacked him, perhaps that's also why he became more accommodating. I don't know what I would have done if he hadn't given me math). By this point, I had not chopped any forests, but I had built up roads and pre-chopped 75% of them. After that, almost each city every turn built 1 unit. I traded polytheism + agriculture for mathematics, archery and masonry for polytheism. After ceasefire with William (he had 5 cities left) I in 350 bc attacked England, not Spain. They both had 5 cities, but England was weaker, its cities were closer to my capital and I already had to bring troops to their border while I was at war with William. And they had a monarchy "a long time ago" and currency. In 200 BC, they learned feudalism and immediately build longbow. This delayed the capture of their capital by 2 turns. In 150 BC, I made peace with England, left them 2 cities in the west of their peninsula, took currency, sailing, monotheism, and priesthood for peace. On the next turn, I traded AH for monotheism and got about 200 gold for priesthood, because 6 of 8 AI did not know it. in 75 bc, I attacked Spain. I took the 1st city after killing 9 and losing 0 units (3-hill promotion is just a cheat :)). I'll take another one with the next turn (I could have taken it on this turn, but I was overly cautious and let down more units). Now the 2nd army is preparing in the north for a new war with Dutch, which crushes the culture of my 2 cities. The question is, what happens first is a general strike or domination. The territories of England, Dutch, Spain and America should be enough for me to dominate. Bismarck (2 cities) De Gaulle (3), Ragnar(5) and Joao (6) seem to have very little territory on 4x. Someone has only 14 tiles (probably Bismarck).

In total, on 1 AD, 12 cities, a very large army, 1 power, a negative GNP and a scary situation with tech )


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I started playing this map last week-end and finally reached 1 AD after what has felt like an excrutiating voyage :lol: I hope to find the will and energy to complete this map, because it's been forever since I've brought a game to completion and the "harder part" has been done (maybe, perhaps, allegedly...).

On T0, I decided to settle the spot that I felt was the least replaceable : 2N2N has rivers for Bureaucracy and looks like a coastal site with strong Production. It also leads inland, which is very nice.
Upon initial exploration, I decided to play towards The Great Lighthouse and a following Horse Archer rush, as it was apparent that England did not have metal.
The GLH is nice in the sense that the resource specials we have do not require us to deviate from Bronze -> Sailing. However, it is certainly a delay towards a HA rush, as it becomes more difficult to settle early cities and set them up properly.
Generally speaking, I feel that I have not been decisive enough with my plays and had a harder time than necessary because I was chasing several rabbits at the same time... :mischief:

So, T47, I finally have the techs for the GLH and am preparing to increase my worker count to speed up the wonder.
The first difficulty appears...
Spoiler :

Victoria steals my coveted spot by one turn... First, this put a huge target on her back. We cannot forgive !!! :ar15:
Then... I decided to still claim land with this settler and went to the Replacement city spot... Which was very useless for a long time, since left unattended and without even knowledge of Agriculture... I feel like it would have been more decisive to walk back to the ivory spot and abandon the land grab entirely. The third city had to be able to contribute at least a worker, or something. But nevermind...

Victoria, as often, got a very early Alphabet and I was able to trade Bronze and Masonry to her, to speed up a combination of Pottery/Writing/AH. It might be the case that it is unwise to advance one's war target but those were techs that I, too, needed very dearly. One downside of the GLH usually is a very delayed Writing.
Anyway, since city 3 was just completing its monument at the time and I did not manage to whip a settler, it was only with 3 cities that I completed the GLH, T58 :

Spoiler :

And we can see some problems, already. I can start working on HBR but :
- Jolly Junction is tied working on a Library and then hiring 2 scientists (no production)
- Mrs Santa's Grotto has 0 infrastruture and needs to build two settlers
- The Fish city will need a border pop before it can do anything

This is a real imbalance that was made more manifest by my city 3 location. (I don't really blame myself, I blame Victoria :lol:)
So I did research HBR without a Library... and was fortunate enough to land a 1280 BC trade for Alphabet with Bismark.

Spoiler :

Not really in war preps, there. Mrs Santa's Grotto still has no infrastructure and is barely completing the last settler. Jolly Junction is soon to be done with its Library. Elven City is not functionnal, yet.
On the upside, we have 4 workers and a very decent GNP, between the 2 gems and the GLH. We can start to cottage the land and still have quite a bit of production stored in the form of forests.
While I had been dilly-dallying about the Pyramids, this is now a long lost thought. The French will happen to build it.
As far as research goes, my tech objective is Civil Service and I will self-tech Currency, Meditation (for trade value) and Code of Laws on the way.

The first Horse Arche is ready on T81, approximately 14 turns after HBR was researched :mischief: and 3 cities are "ready" to contribute to the war effort, although only 2 have Barracks :help:

Spoiler :

No Library in Mrs Santa's Grotto because hammers. No Barracks in Jolly Junction because gpp. Snow City finally ready to contribute something...
Elven City gets its border pop with a Library (so slightly delayed compared with a Monument). Toy Town looks great but was settled so late it will be very useless in the first phase.
Fortunately, the capital is a hammer powerhouse, Victoria still doesn't have metal and Horse Archers are OP :please:
The Spanish have a huge stack but America could be a secondary target if things were to change.

9 turns later, Toy Town decides to start on a Library before Horse Archers but we have a decent number going and a modest mix of melee units near Snow City.
The Great Scientist has popped out of Jolly Junction, so the city is ready to use its double deer to pump units :

Spoiler :

... And a very convenient invasion route :

Spoiler :

Now, remember about the potential drawbacks of advancing your war target ?
First, the diplo is a mess and Victoria immediately bribes Roosevelt on me. Fortunately, Roosevelt was one of the softest AIs and will never do anything in the war.
Second, no-metal Victoria has had Monarchy for a while, now, and gets Feudalism (+ 1 Longbow) 4 turns into the war... Just as my reinforcements were gathering around Hamleys... :cry: This is a situation were even a couple of turns difference would be huge.
To add to my troubles, my advance force of 7 HAs was a little too weak to threaten her capital without Hamleys being cleared, first, and had to settle for easier pickings.
Suddenly, this is a very tense situation :

Spoiler :

So I sniped the size 8 city but, most important, Hamleys does not fall.
Next turn it whips a Longbow and Victoria counter attacks, killing 2 of my HAs.
I can clear her stray units (including one with a HA that I retreated from the North, leaving 2 by Victorian Yuletide Emporium) but the turn after there are now 3 Longbows in Hamleys :woohoo:
A catastrophy is at hand and this requires extremely careful consideration.
1 Longbow is wounded, 2 are full health, Victoria also has 2 wounded chariots in Hamleys.
My cities are now contributing HAs as much as possible but half of my healthy units are stuck in the north. My melee support units are not healing well in ennemy territory... We need to wait and bind our time.
We need to wait at least one turn.

Spoiler :

But we do not want to wait for too long because of the wounded Longbow. Also it would be bad if there would appear a 4th.
So, you know how it goes in stack combat... sometimes you test your luck a little.
Now up to 4 healthy HAs, we do have numeric superiority, after all...
So you risk an attacker, can it wound the top defender ?

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