As I stated in the pre-game thread, my intent was to play challenger save and only build the Great Wall if I found no horses nearby.
Made my first mistake before I even started, though. Loaded contender save.
Spoiler:
I thought I was clicking on the challnger save, but loaded up the Contender (monarch level) save by accident (the download icon is actually closer to the text that says Challenger Save than it is to the text that says Contender save... and temporary dyslexia must have struck as I clicked). I did not notice this until about 7 turns later, not having seen a single barb unit yet, was wonder what could be wrong. I was really when I discovered the mistake, because now I can't just go back and load the challenger save. So if anyone was inspired to play the challenger save because of my pronouncements, I sincerely apologize.
So I played Contender level this time. But everything went right after that.
I settled in place, considering since I thought the cow/forest would help my first worker build, and the hills would help production. My tech path was planned to have AH>mining>wheel>archery>BW as the first five techs anyhow, so I could put that pasture to use soon enough.
Oddly enough, I discovered that though I could build the worker in 10-11 turns, I would have it idle for 4-5 turns waiting for AH to finish if I work the forest/cow. So instead I worked the other cow which also had commerce, and instead of being ready to pasture at t15, I was ready to pasture at t13 (2t faster AH), with only 1/2 worker turn idle.
I built worker>warrior>warrior>barracks archer settler worker or something like that... I don't really remember. (Maybe some chariots after the settler grabs horse).
AH revealed 3 nearby horse which I could easily grab with a settler. I decided that keeping my first two cities close together would make defense easier, so chose to settle 4tiles north to get horse in the inner ring (+gems), and silver in the outer ring. This second city was settled 2480BC. River saves connecting time.
Chariots make easy work of barb units at this point. I settle my 3rd city 1SW of the silver in the start screen, expecting this to be my commerce city to pay for lots of units. It has 2 silve, 1 gold, and 3 FP... so a real cash-cow (without any pastures)
Chariots enable rapid scouting, too. (My scout died in a forest by a lion in his first battle). 1240BC I capture barbarian city (Jute) that is 4NW+1N from my horse city, and has wheat and cow and on a river, so I keep it.
From these 4 cities I am ready to build my empire by conquest! Good thing I'm using horse units, though, because the rivals are all quite a distance from our start spot.
Only the green guys (Ottomans?) and the Greeks are really close enough to attack early, and I share religion with the green and they will be my trade partner. So Alex must die. I DOW on Greece in 475BC with horse archers that can take Athens in 450BC and Thebes in 250BC before I accept peace for 3 really needed techs (anyhow needed a short pause to heal). The WITHDRAW promotion was my favorite, as I am attacking cities with 40-60% culture without seige support, and otherwise would lose a lot of units unnecessarily. Poor Alex had no metal at this point, iirc.
At 100BC I am ready to resume the appeasement of the blood gods.... but I still have forced peace with Alex, and now I find Sitting Bull down in the south... so he is the next victim. 75BC Poverty Pt is captured, and MesaVerde is razed. 50BC I capture a barb city down there too, where Confucianism will get founded. I don't exactly recall why I made peace (or cease fire?) with SB after that. Probably logistics... maybe I needed his cash bribe to avoid strikes?
Anyhow, Construction is learned in 475AD and my next war is planned to begin. I should have Feudalism before its over, so can capitulate the victim. Probably Alex again, because that should be quick.
550BC Alphabet
525BC Fishing (for writing, to enable trade of alphabet for IW)
500BC IW (for alphabet)
475BC Poly+Sailing (for alphabet)
375BC Meditation
250BC PH+Math+Currency (peace offering from Greece)
25BC Code of Laws (Confu founded) Sacrificial Alters being built by slave labour to ritualistically tear out the hearts of my opponents therebyreducing the unhappiness that occurs when I whip my own people into military units!!!)
50AD Masonry
200AD Monotheism
300AD Monarchy (hereditary rule)
475AD Construction (set research to 0% for a while because it is Cat-time! Meow!!!)
Stats:
Spoiler:
At 500AD, I have:
Built Killed
5 warriors 49
4 Axe 14
10 archers 49
8 chariots 6
17 horse arch 0 (lost 11)
1 Great General attached to warrior as Supermedic with +1 mobility (2 move unit).
I have 9 workers (7 built 3 captured 1 lost).
I have 10 cities (built 4, 8 captured, razed 2).
I am sustainable research at 40% (+7gpt), making 58bpt. Feudalism (to vassalize victims) in 14 turns sustainable, but should go faster as I gain conquest gold and up the slider for deficit research.
I had the pleasure of building the GW to keep out the hordes of barbarians but forgot the greatest of the barbarians named Alex. He attacked with me 8 turns from getting Maces and 7 turns from connecting copper from the north.
He took my Oracle city with 10 turns left to build my second GS at over 80% chance. 12 turns later I up graded 4 swords to Maces and took his capital and after a few more turns took his copper city. And with that I was convinced that I will need to take the path of sword/mace to UN.
I got a quest to build 7 libraries before Ren during this and changed the tech path from Edu to Music since only 6 cities have Libs. Have a GS(for Edu), GSpy and GA from Music.
Capital, settled 1E, has GW, GLib and about to complete NE. Missed the Mids by 2 turns. It will build UoS next.
The start (exactly as tested and described in the pregame discussion - beside GW one turn later):
1. Settle: 1E.
2. Tech: AH, Mining, Masonry, Agri
3. Improvements: Pasture on cow, mine the three hills, maybe farm on fp
4. Build: Worker, Warriors, GW
City settlement until 500BC:
2000 - South at two cows
1720 - East at Stone
1520 - West at Fur
900 - North at Horst, Gems, Silver
750 - West at Gold, Sheep
Comment on the game:
Expansion seems OK to me but the beaker output in 500AD is low. I only use cottages in the capital and in the Fur city. Maybe more cottages? But food is a real problem so I farmed a lot.
Comment on the game:
Expansion seems OK to me but the beaker output in 500AD is low. I only use cottages in the capital and in the Fur city. Maybe more cottages? But food is a real problem so I farmed a lot.
The sustainable beaker output in my game in the same stage is less than 100BPT (counting the 2 free scientists from TGL, I guess you did not have TGL since there was only 1 marble in Inca's capital). You did pretty well. Health resources are not enough in this map, so it's better to settle the riverside if you can.
My way of playing this game is to rush Alex to cripple him 1st, then sent everything to grab the only marble for the TGL, NE and HE in BC era.
The sustainable beaker output in my game in the same stage is less than 100BPT (counting the 2 free scientists from TGL, I guess you did not have TGL since there was only 1 marble in Inca's capital).
Sounds like you've got a better contender game going than I do. I built the Great Wall and the Oracle with no problem but then bogged down and failed to expand -- which is pretty typical for me.
Just the opposite for me, even with the Oracle in to dilute the poisoned gene pool I ended up with two useless great spies. Oh well.
I can't blame this game on bad luck though. First I let myself get lured off my starting plan by sighting the southern gems and plains cows. Settled 3S and 1E of start on turn 1 (3960bc). (Battling health ever since & not whipping.)
Build Order: worker, warrior, Great Wall (t41-2360bc), Barracks, Warrior, Settler, Oracle (t77-950bc), then chariots...
So far, so good (or at least roughly according to plan, though kcd's approach turned out to be the better one). I DoW Alex on t93 (550bc) and quickly take Athens. Sparta is next, but my first three chariots die without hardly scratching the defending (barb-promoted) archer. There aren't enough units in the stack to risk more such losses so I reluctantly decide to pull the rest back and go for a weaker city. That turns out to have been the right move once metals are revealed, but instead of mowing Alex over early I have to settle for peace and math. Alex is still fairly well gutted with no metals, but my early advantage has faded, and by 500 AD I have neither expanded beyond those four cities, nor attacked anyone else. On the other hand I have forges ready in three of the four cities, another belated settler almost ready to go, and tech superiority of HBR, MC, and Feudalism over all other civs.
It looks like the Eastern Civs appear ready to break out in tech now though and I still haven't got construction, let alone Lit. The revised plan is to finish Alex as soon as I can get a couple of catapults and then go after the Incans and Khmer. Tech to Guilds after Construction and hope to trade up to Lit. Looks like it is going to be a long slog...
Techs at 500 AD: Same as kcd except I have Feudalism and Metal Casting but do not have Construction, Code of Laws, and Monotheism.
Units: 4 warriors, 5 chariots, 7 Horse Archers, 1 Longbow, 1 explorer, no Great Generals.
Cities: 4 cities, 5 workers, & sustainable research at 60% (but only 42bpt).
I took the contender save. I started the game with a fast spaceship victory in mind. However, given the current situation at 500AD, I'm not sure if I should be sticking with the plan.
The hardest thing to adapt to in this map was the scarcity of food in our area, to allow either cottages or farms+specialists. The abundance of hammers, on the other hand, allowed me to build a lot more troops than I am used to. This, and the aggressive AI...maybe I should switch gears and go for a military victory?
I settled in place, went for the popular choice AH/Min/Mas and built the GW - couldn't be bothered to deal with the annoying raging barbs. Since I met all the AI in the first 40 turns, I made a beeline for Alpha...but Sury beat me to it!? Anyway, I was still able to backfill earlier techs up to Monarchy, then went for CS (250AD). After that I just got Construction and Aesthetics (stolen).
In the BC's I expanded peacefully to 7 cities. Meanwhile, many of the AI were getting WHEOOHRN, especially Alex. I was expecting to be dow'ed but fortunately he decided to fight Capac (50AD). I had a stack of jaguars at Alex's borders, and as soon as I noticed his SOD was away in Inca territory, I joined the war on Capac's side. By 500AD I had captured Athens and Thebes, and Alex's future wasn't very promising to say the least.
But, I can't say I am doing that well on my spaceship plans either.
I built the great wall and oracle (for CS) Just finishing up Alex at the spoiler deadline. I used jags and cats to take Athens around 100AD. Iron was secured after Athens border pop.
Plan is to tech to knights and mop up everyone. Going for domination this time so I will keep all cities. Hopefully I can unit spam HC, I'm worried he will tech too fast. I will have to take him out after sitting bull (next on my hit list).
I'm not doing well. The mountains and small map size meant I was discouraged from expanding to the west and boxed in from the east/north/south-east so I only have 3 cities in 500AD or so.
I did get the GW though which was VERY helpful. I'd be dead otherwise.
I started pumping out some Jaguars and Chariots and Horse Archers to invade Alexander but THEN... the Ottomans attacked me and right now I think I'll be finished soon . He took my eastern city in the mountains already for 1 turn but now he's got way more than me and I don't know if I can even hold him off from taking my capital. I did get Chichen Itza though so that'll help somewhat...
I'm not doing well. The mountains and small map size meant I was discouraged from expanding to the west and boxed in from the east/north/south-east so I only have 3 cities in 500AD or so.
I did get the GW though which was VERY helpful. I'd be dead otherwise.
I started pumping out some Jaguars and Chariots and Horse Archers to invade Alexander but THEN... the Ottomans attacked me and right now I think I'll be finished soon . He took my eastern city in the mountains already for 1 turn but now he's got way more than me and I don't know if I can even hold him off from taking my capital. I did get Chichen Itza though so that'll help somewhat...
If you built 7 chariots instead of the GWall, would you still be dead by barb attacks? Remember, your chariots would just keep getting stronger as they win battles and gain XP. The Wall just gets less and less useful as the AI expand and barbs have noplace to spawn anymore.
How many hammers is Chichem Itza? How many defensive units could you build with the same amount of hammers? Which would give you a better chance of defending your cities?
In my opinion, the Chicken Itcher is almost never worth building -- if you are letting the enemy attack your cities, whether they have 100% defenses or 0% defenses won't matter, you will lose unless you can kill the attackers.
Sure, its an irritant if your target for military conquest builds it...So in certain circumstances it might be worth building to prevent that. But usually not. If you really want it, just pry it from their cold dead hands. (But bring lots of seige units and units that can withdraw from combat to soften them up first.)
My suggestion would be to try an play some games where you decide that you will not build a single World Wonder. I think you will be suprised at how well you can do anyhow.
And whenever Raging Barbs is the setting, count on needing two or three times as many of your early builds on making units that are stronger than warriors. Archers is usually enough to get established before the barbs have melee. And in a city they can stop almost anything the barbs throw at you until swords start appearing. By then you better have found some strategic resource.
Sounds like you've got a better contender game going than I do. I built the Great Wall and the Oracle with no problem but then bogged down and failed to expand -- which is pretty typical for me.
Just the opposite for me, even with the Oracle in to dilute the poisoned gene pool I ended up with two useless great spies. Oh well.
Just curious... what tech did you get from Oracle? If I'm in a game needing lots of military units early, I usually don't bother with it. The AI who builds it will take maybe metalcasting or Monarchy, maybe Code of Laws, but often not anything even as useful as those. Never a sling. I find it a big deal if you are going to grab Civil Service or Feudalism from it... but if its just a lower tech, you are often just as well off letting an AI build it and then trade for whatever tech he got, if you need it. Or steal it.
Marble makes the Oracle more appealing for accepting low level techs (no sling), but I almost never have marble hooked up in time for Oracle (unless playing at too low difficulty level, or I settle on top of it).
GSpies aren't totally useless. You could have stolen 2-3 tech from any AI you infiltrate (much better than an Oracle!). You can also save it for a GOlden Age later. Any other usage is probably kind of worthless, though. But depends on what your goals are, I guess.
How many hammers is Chichem Itza? How many defensive units could you build with the same amount of hammers? Which would give you a better chance of defending your cities?
Oh ya, I forget to mention... I used a Great Engineer
As for 7 chariots instead of the GW... I'm not sure. 7 chariots would clearly be very useful but I'd also be afraid that I wouldn't have them spread around where I need them etc. I hate ancient warfare actually, I've never been into it in any Civ .
I'm more of a Knights man
Oh ya, I forget to mention... I used a Great Engineer
As for 7 chariots instead of the GW... I'm not sure. 7 chariots would clearly be very useful but I'd also be afraid that I wouldn't have them spread around where I need them etc. I hate ancient warfare actually, I've never been into it in any Civ .
I'm more of a Knights man
If you like knights, then you'd love starting with level 4 knights, wouldn't you? A couple turns of 0% research will upgrade all your best chariots (and if they have a GG attached, the upgrade is free).
Where to put the chariots? Its not like they are melee units that are slow. Almost anywhere nearby will do. In your cities is fine, they heal fastest there...until you see a barb at the border. Then you go to where you can attack the barb on non-forested flat terrain when possible. Gold/silver mines are barb magnets, so stay near those as a sort of default. They also come from the unsettled areas most, and you should learn pretty quickly where that is.
You should build roads inside your borders to facilitate movement, and probably put some archers fortified on the nearby hills to make them go around and sit on the flat turf. Sitting ducks. Until the barbs have spears/swords the chariots alone are enough for raging barbs.
But if you like to play fast (in real time) then you should build the wall, because the logistics gets easy. But be prepared that when you will fight an AI they will be attacking and defending with highly promoted units because of all the extra barbs you send their way with the Wall.
I'm not the best judge of what is most competetive. For me, its a matter of what I think will be fun. Sometimes its just tedious to have to kill 100+ barbs units over the course of a game. Sometimes, its fun. Depends on the mood.
BTW- I'd use the GE for something else. In a recent game I bulbed Machinery with one. If there is only Chicken Itcher and no other Wonders on the near horizon (and I'm not planning on saving him for the UN later), I'd settle him. But that's just my preference.
If you like knights, then you'd love starting with level 4 knights, wouldn't you? A couple turns of 0% research will upgrade all your best chariots (and if they have a GG attached, the upgrade is free).
True that. It's just that I never feel comfortable until Knights for various reasons. I suppose by then you could potentially have a large military tech advantage over your enemy whereas Chariots are one of the earliest units there is and I'm usually addicted to city improvements (though I'm improving with that) and by the time of Knights there's often a sort of gap where there's not as much I feel I need to build. Of course, part of that is a holdover from the time when I didn't know as much and used to try and build every improvement in every city .
Also, I never feel comfortable waging a war unless I have plenty of defensive units in my cities, which probably allows my enemies time to gain the upper hand...
You should build roads inside your borders to facilitate movement, and probably put some archers fortified on the nearby hills to make them go around and sit on the flat turf. Sitting ducks. Until the barbs have spears/swords the chariots alone are enough for raging barbs.
So when is a good time to start spamming units? I wouldn't tend to have a couple of archers to spare in addition to chariots patrolling around for barbs. I tend to be afraid that by not building something, I'm gonna get less benefit for it later on and that if I just build another improvement... I can start making units after that
So when is a good time to start spamming units? I wouldn't tend to have a couple of archers to spare in addition to chariots patrolling around for barbs. I tend to be afraid that by not building something, I'm gonna get less benefit for it later on and that if I just build another improvement... I can start making units after that
Unit spam should be done as soon as you have the tech for the type of unit you plan to spam, generally. If you plan an early rush, the build path is basically worker>warriors to pop2> settler to grab strategic resource> then units until you have enough. If you did this fast, 5 should be "enough" for taking 1-2 cities. 2-3 chariots is enough to take care of raging barbs, maybe 4-5 if using axes.
No building is worth building if you can't defend it.
In this type of game where getting early military to take care of barbs is important (without the GW), I tend to find that my only choice is whether to build a barrack before units or not. I usually don't build them if I'm planning a rush, though. I generally won't have tech to build anything else but units until about writing+alphabet. Might whip a granary here or there, depending on how much food there is and such. When I really screw it up... the only thing I CAN build is units (even though my units are making me go broke already ).
In this type of game where getting early military to take care of barbs is important (without the GW), I tend to find that my only choice is whether to build a barrack before units or not. .
In this game, early on you did not need the Rax to get the promotions going. I used Barbs to get my chariots promoted to 3 stars. Maces to CR3 was very fast too.
BTW if you do not fall in to the trap of ignoring defensive units as I did in my game, the advantage of the GW in raging barb is that you can go on the offensive as soon as you have 6-8 chariots. And in this game I contemplated several times to go on the offensive, when Alex did not have iron or copper connected. But changed my mind. It was a bad idea.
BOTM33 Spoiler - Monty of the Aztecs - Contender Save
I have two goals for this game:
1) Win by diplomacy via the UN.
2) Take my time.
The reason for 1) is that it is my latest fad ever since SGOTM11. Plus, I think it will be reasonably challenging given that this is with aggressive AI (hidden -2 attitude to all players).
The reason for 2) is that I figure I'll probably do a lot better if I play the game over several sessions rather than sticking at it like a madman (just... one... more... turn......) for hours at a time. The breaks will give me more time to sit back and think. I figure that while I'm at it, I'll write a detailed spoiler.
4000 BC -> 3160 BC
Meet Ottomans, pop Mining from a hut, learn Masonry and start Great Wall in 3160 BC.
Spoiler:
I did play a few test games, and in the first few I hadn't really considered the Great Wall, since most of my games have barbs turned off! When I tried to play with Great Wall as a priority, it made things MUCH easier. So I'll be going for that in this game.
First move is scout N-NE onto the hill. He doesn't show anything to make me change my mind - I move settler E and settle. Pity, missed another cow resource. Overall, an average capital for a Great Plains map.
First build is a worker. First tech is Animal Husbandry.
Scout continue North. I'll be reasonably bold at first, but after turn 10 I'll start moving 1 tile/turn to avoid the barbs.
Stoked! Scout popped a hut with Mining! And I meet the Ottoman, and kill defending to a lion. After AH I begin on Masonry. Second build is a warrior, then part warrior before starting Great Wall when Masonry is learned in 3160 BC.
3160 BC -> 2520 BC
Meet Greek, Incan, American, Khmer. Truffles event! Great Wall built.
Spoiler:
The scout is slowly making his way East - his goal is to meet the AI. The Incan is next - who has founded Buddhism. For this diplo targeted game, religion founders are very annoying as they are more tricky to manipulate into a desired religion. Something to think about later.
Meanwhile, the first produced warrior is exploring south down the river. There's a reasonable city site with 2 cows and horses there. Alex the Greek is also down here - he's really quite close. The scout also meets Sury and Washington in the eastern forests.
Bonus - I get the Truffles event on one of my mines - +1/+1. The mine is now a 2/3/2 tile, game breaking? Let's see what I can make of it. Bronze Working was learned after Masonry, and in 2520 BC (T37) I whip the Great Wall to completion. I'm not taking any chances!
2520 BC -> 2160 BC
Decided to pursue Jaguars and attack Alex.
Spoiler:
I'm a lot more relaxed with the GW built. Time now to expand ASAP and extend my borders/walls. Next tech is Agriculture to keep the worker busy, then the Wheel. The capital is building a couple of warriors, and then stonehenge in order to grow back to size 3 before switching to settler.
Now, looking at the AI opponents, it could be annoying to get Alex's vote - he likes the Vassalge civic, which I don't particularly like, doesn't have a very high limit for shared religion bonus, and is more likely to give an extra -ve hidden modifier if he is a lower rank than me. I've decided I would like to remove him early. Teching IW and building Jaguars will help
2160 BC -> 1520 BC
Meet Native American. Settle cities #2 and #3.
Spoiler:
Here's an interesting test for the Great Wall - do barbs get ejected if I settle a city next to a barb warrior? The answer is yes, thankfully City #2 is founded in 2040 BC 3SE of capital, with 2x cows and eventually some horses.
Sury learns alphabet in 1760 BC - I trade pottery off him. As with most of my games, I'll set up the capital as a super science city, ie, lots of cottages.
The scout has managed to stay alive long enough to meet Sitting Bull - he is another leader with an annoying favourite civic, and doesn't care much for shared religion. Meanwhile, the capital builds a second settler, and 3rd city is founded in 1520 BC 5E2N of capital to claim 2x cows, gems, stone and later horses.
Iron Working is learned in 1520 BC - time to build an army.
1520 BC -> 825 BC
I build the Oracle, and I get a free Iron source by the capital. City #4 is founded.
Spoiler:
Annoying Sury demands Iron Working off me... I give in to him, since I'd like to get his vote peacefully if at all possible and it's nice to have some friends. I can see that Alex has iron - hmm... if he builds his UU my jags could be in real trouble, and chariot support won't really cut it. I also see iron to the northwest, I might grab that myself first.
I've learned Meditation+Priesthood and I'm considering a late attempt at the Oracle (currently 1080 BC). Fail gold is also nice if I miss.
I'm actually reconsidering attacking Alex for quite some time. There is a lot of good land I can peacefully expand into to the North. Sury has enough on his hands, but I feel pretty safe from him since he is pleased with me and he is very far away.
City #4 is founded in 925 BC to the NW, claiming silver and eventually gems, horses and iron. Very food poor though - it missed the sheep further west...
Oh sweet! In 825 I get more great luck - Iron pops on the same hill tile as the Truffles - it is a 2/5/2 tile now! Also, with a 3pop whip, the Oracle is mine - I take Code of Laws for the free tech: it's great for 2 reasons 1) I can build Sacrifical Altars 2) I'm spiritual, so popping borders is easy with temporary dips into Caste System.
825 BC -> 500 BC
Discover Alphabet and Maths. Settle city #5.
Spoiler:
As expected, a great spy is born in the capital - he is settled for some free and averagely useful . My buddy Sury trades me alphabet for Code of Laws - questionable deal perhaps, but him and I pretty much have a monopoly on Alpha now.
I've connected up silver and gems, so getting some larger cities to grow.
In 600 BC I notice that Sury no longer has enough on his hands, but Alex does! Hmm... am I his target? My 5th city is founded in 575 BC quite far north, with 4 cows, horses, and a few floodplains - it will be my GP Farm most likely.
500 BC -> 175 BC
Teching towards Civil Service, then Alex declares war on me!
Spoiler:
My plan for conquering Alex and Sitting Bull will wait until Maces - then their UUs and Sitting Bulls special archers should be easier to handle. Currently teching Civil Service, with the help of some cities building Research.
I get my first bad event of the game - a cow pature near the capital is destroyed. Hehe, my good luck has been so much better than that!
The Ottoman will trade Monarchy, so I give him CoL for it - revolting immediately. HC, Sury and Sulei all like my civic choices. HC is especially pleased, since I gifted him Monarchy. I have Confu and Jewish religions, but I'm not deciding on one yet.
Strangely, in 175 BC Alex declares on me (not unexpected) but he sends only a single spear in my direction. I revolt back to Slavery and my large population cities should be able to handle him pretty well. My biggest fear is that Alex bribes others into war against me, but I don't think he has many techs to bribe with.
175 BC -> 25 AD
Built the Hanging Gardens, peace with Alex.
Spoiler:
150 BC, and I see Alex's stack. A couple of swords, a couple of chariots, meh. Unfortunately, while I'm satisfied I can defend ok, dealing with the pillaging is a different issue. Maybe I'll fortify some units on the hills of my best tiles. Either way, it's ok, I can bide my time, since maces aren't that far away. In 50 BC I learn Civil Service, and revolt to Bureau immediately.
Did I mention I'm building the Hanging Gardens? I wanted an Aqueduct in city #2, and I have stone after all so I went for it. It is completed in 25 BC, and the GreatEngineer will help later on with the UN hopefully.
Also, the idiot Greek loses 3 units attacking my small stack defending a hilltop cow resource, and now he is offering peace. I'll take peace, so I can focus on getting to maces.
25 AD -> 350 AD
Given quest to claim copper from Sitting Bull. Learnt Machinery. Settle city #6.
Spoiler:
More irritating random events destroy another pasture. Although, I am tasked with the Greed quest - to control a copper resource from Sitting Bull's lands. Well, considering I was thinking of going after him anyway, what better excuse
City #6 is settled to the southwest claiming 2x silver, gold, gems and sheep.
The stupid Greek is planning another war, but still has forced peace with me - so I presume it is vs someone else. Machinery is learned in 350 AD, and my first target is Sitting Bull, since I really want to get him before he gets Longbows.
350 AD -> 500 AD
Alex builds Pyramids. I declare on Sitting Bull.
Spoiler:
Oo, Alex built the Pyramids for me. But Sitting Bull is first in line. Although, in 500 AD Alex declares on HC, so hopefully I can move onto him quite swiftly. A GProphet born in the capital is settled in 500 AD, the same year I declare on SB.
Stats at 500 AD:
6 cities, 7 workers.
Currently researching Paper at ~110 sustainable /turn, but could be higher if I wasn't in war mode.
Techs: Mining (free from hut)->AH->Masonry->BW->AG->Wheel->Pottery->IW->Medi->PH->Wri->CoL(Oracle 825 BC)->Archery/Fishing/Alpha/Poly/Sailing/Mono(trade 750 BC)->Maths->Monarchy->CS(75 BC)->MC->Constr(trade)->Mach.
I find that stopping to take notes is the opposite of off-putting - it gives me a chance to focus my thoughts a little. As to how, I can think of two ways:
1) I play the game in windowed mode - this might not be an option for everybody, I'm not sure. But the advantage here is that I can keep notepad open to write things down in.
2) With the Buffy autolog you can take in-game notes. I think ALT+L enables logging (so do that in 4000 BC, or go into BUFFY settings and enable it permanently) and then ALT+E I think allows you to post a user entry into the log.
As for the Great Wall vs 7 chariots - I liked the Great Wall. I got super lucky in my game popping Mining from a hut, so I actually built the GW before settling my second city. The nice thing here was that settling cities close enough to the capital didn't even require an escort for the settler. I guess the Great Spy isn't so great as a Great Scientist first, but it isn't completely useless. I'm playing a reasonably tech focussed game and planning on taking something reasonably advanced from Liberalism, so it's nice to be able to see everybody's research from the accumulated of that one settled GSpy. C63 has also demonstrated how you can get a few easy techs by infiltrating a strong teching AI.
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when I discovered the mistake, because now I can't just go back and load the challenger save. So if anyone was inspired to play the challenger save because of my pronouncements, I sincerely apologize.
Health resources are not enough in this map, so it's better to settle the riverside if you can.
. He took my eastern city in the mountains already for 1 turn but now he's got way more than me and I don't know if I can even hold him off from taking my capital. I did get Chichen Itza though so that'll help somewhat...
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/+1
. The mine is now a 2/3/2 tile, game breaking? Let's see what I can make of it. Bronze Working was learned after Masonry, and in 2520 BC (T37) I whip the Great Wall to completion. I'm not taking any chances!
and averagely useful 
. My buddy Sury trades me alphabet for Code of Laws - questionable deal perhaps, but him and I pretty much have a monopoly on Alpha now.
will help later on with the UN hopefully.
