Oh right... I'll have to remember that. I never really noticed that in Buffy.
I suppose this'll probably be my last (and only second
) BOTM though, since Civ V is out in late September anyway 
BOTM 33 First Spoiler - 500 AD
- Thread starter DynamicSpirit
- Start date
Oh right... I'll have to remember that. I never really noticed that in Buffy.
I suppose this'll probably be my last (and only second
) BOTM though, since Civ V is out in late September anyway 
Oh right... I'll have to remember that. I never really noticed that in Buffy.
I suppose this'll probably be my last (and only second
Make sure you go in to BUFFY Options (Alt+Ctrl+O) and set the save path for autologs first. The default path did not work for me, but this fixed it.
_T_
Chieftain
How do you know what modifiers are for the same rel. or favorite civic? I have learned some through game play but this is probably written somewhere isnt it?
Open the Diplomatic advisor screen, and click on INFO. There you will see a list of the civics that each AI you have met are running, and a seperate column listing their favorite civic. Each AI gives you a diplomatic modifier FOR THAT FAVORITE CIVIC ONLY, and ONLY IF BOTH YOU AND HE/SHE ARE USING IT. Other civic choices don't matter with respect to that AI's attitude.
The BUFFY MOD also shows how much + diplo you are getting from each civilization for using their favorite civic, if there is one. (Green numbers to the right of the favorite civic).
There are spreadsheets that show what the maximum value for this modifier is for each leader. You can search the forum for Leaderheads to find it I think. If you can't find it and think you need it, I can probably search it for you. Too busy atm.
Mitchum
Deity
Thanks for the thorough report. It looks like you're well on your way to a diplo victory. I was going to take my time this game too. The next thing I knew it was 1120 AD and I'd been playing for 6 hours...
_T_
Chieftain
Thanks KCD,
I ll look for it..so far I have found this summary of possible relation bonuses but it is not that detailed but interesting: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/diplo_victory_notes.php
I didnt know that we both have to use the same fav civic to get the bonus, thanks!
I ll look for it..so far I have found this summary of possible relation bonuses but it is not that detailed but interesting: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/diplo_victory_notes.php
I didnt know that we both have to use the same fav civic to get the bonus, thanks!
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
The early game flew by quickly for me, too, with the entire pre-500 AD set of turns being played in one session.The next thing I knew it was 1120 AD and I'd been playing for 6 hours...
I decided to delay building The Great Wall after my Scout spotted a Stone Resource. The Settler for my second City was built quickly (I think that my capitol was only at Size 2) in order to pick up the Stone.
Of course, I wanted a nice long-term position for my City 2, so, instead of intelligently settling on the Stone or at least next to it, I put the Stone in the outer ring of my fat cross and built a Monument.
As a result, I missed building The Great Wall by 2 turns.
Oh well, Plan B was to simply survive the ensuing Barb onslaught, and mighty tough indeed the Barbs were. Chariots and Archers fought a war of attrition until I got my Jaguar Warriors online, at which point the Barbs became a joke.
However, Alex, my Religious ally (Hinduism) shortly thereafter dragged me into a war against Suleiman. Well, I overconfidently sent in Chariots + Jaguar Warriors, but was forced to retreat a couple of times with heavy losses against nearly infinite Axemen and Swordsmen.
Meanwhile, the war plans caused me to get Failure Gold for a partially-completed Oracle.
I'd only had time to build 4 Cities and was able to capture a 5th one from the Barbs before the AIs had settled (or captured from the Barbs) all of the remaining good locations that weren't in the heavily-Barb-infested areas.
As of 500 AD, I had finally rebuilt enough of an army and gotten Alex's stack to guard mine (Phalanxes defend well against Axemen--much better than my units were doing), just outside of the gates of Suleiman's capitol.
At this point, it will be a game of attacking enough but not too much in order to be able to reduce Suleiman's defenders enough for Alex to attack without having Alex's stack steal Suleiman's captiol out from under me.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
It's an important point to keep in mind. In particular, if you are ahead in the tech race, you might have access to an AI's favourite Civic while the AI themselves can't switch into that Civic. In that case, you won't gain any additional positive Diplomatic modifiers with said AI for running their Favourite Civic.
If such a situation occurs (and if you or that Civ has access to Alphabet), then one possibility would be to gift that AI the tech required to run that Civic (or even gift multiple techs, if that AI still needs to learn the tech's pre-requisite techs).
Of course, other strategic implications apply when you gift techs, so you probably shouldn't gift a tech solely on the basis of getting the shared Favourite Civic bonus, at least not without having considered other implications of making that AI "more advanced" in their knowledge.
Jbourne
Warlord
Follow this link and you will find several versions of a referance file that contain information you are looking for.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=11
adrianj
Deity
The BtS Leaderheads reference file is really excellent if you know what to look for!
During SGOTM11 I modified it a little to try to work out the hidden modifiers with the AI, as well as what their attitude might be towards eachother - although there is still some guessing involved figuring out the peaceWeightRandom values (between 0 and 3).
Since I'm not sure if posting it here will break the spoiler rules, I'll post it in the final spoiler.
During SGOTM11 I modified it a little to try to work out the hidden modifiers with the AI, as well as what their attitude might be towards eachother - although there is still some guessing involved figuring out the peaceWeightRandom values (between 0 and 3).
Since I'm not sure if posting it here will break the spoiler rules, I'll post it in the final spoiler.
Grifftavian
Emperor
BOTM 33 First Spoiler Adventurer Save
Initial Plan: I'm going for Great Wall, will possibly try my hand at some early espionage, and see if my Jaguars can win any early victories.
Session 1 4000 BC to 500 BC
Wandered around a bit more than I usually do, finally settled Tenochtitlan on Turn 2, 1SE + 1E of starting location, on a riverside desert tile with 3 Cows in BFC. Initial builds = Worker, Barracks, Archer x4, Scout, Settler. I gave some of the Archers the Guerrilla I promo and stationed them on Hills for early Barb protection.
Session 1 Research = Animal Husbandry, Archery, Mining, The Wheel, Masonry, Bronze Working, Agriculture, Polytheism, Priesthood, Writing, Pottery, Iron Working, Code of Laws (in progress at end of Session 1).
City 2/Teotihuacan founded T45/2200 BC, 3NE + 1E of Capitol, on a plains hill. Not such a great location for city growth, but it claims 2 Cows, Gems, Stone, and a Horse in its BFC.
City 3/Tlatelolco founded T87/700 BC, 3NW + 3N of Capitol, on a desert tile 2S of river, and claiming Gems, Silver and Horse in its BFC.
AI Contacts made in Session 1
Hmmm... looks like I'll keep an eye on Suleiman as a potential first conquest target.
Wonders Built
Started The Oracle, but only built it for 3 turns before someone beat me to it. Wasn't planning on going for the The Pyramids initially, but went ahead and built them since I found the Stone early. Switched to Representation once they were complete; maybe having the ability to switch to Police State may come in handy later on, since building The Pyramids delayed my empire expansion plans.
The Great Wall helped generate a Great Spy on T89/650 BC, which I settled in the Capitol for the extra
and 
Session 2 500 BC to 1 AD
Session 2 Research = completed Code Of Laws, Meditation, Monotheism, Horseback Riding (in progress at end of Session 2).
Session 2 Tech Trades
T111/100 BC Code of Laws to HC/Inca for Alphabet & Fishing
T113/50 BC Monotheism to HC/Inca for Sailing
City 4/Texcoco founded T100/375 BC, 2NE + 3E of city 2, on riverside plains hill with 2 Cows and Iron in BFC.
T102/325 BC Confucianism founded in City 4/Texcoco.
AI Contacts made in Session 2
Session 2 Notable Events
T103/300 BC Huayna Capac (Inca) declares war on Washington (America)
T108/175 BC - Confucianism has spread: Thebes (Greek Empire)
T112/75 BC - Alexander Graham Bell (Great Engineer) born in Tenochtitlan
T113/50 BC - Diplomacy (War Request): Huayna Capac (Inca) asks Montezuma (Aztec) to declare war on Washington (America); Montezuma REFUSES.
Session 2 Comments: Still building up my forces, and Washington is not too close and I don't have any good information on his territory or military forces, so I'm staying out of that war for now. Still on pretty good terms with HC since we're both Buddhist. Also still keeping an eye on Suleiman as a possible target.
Session 3 1 AD to 500 AD
Session 3 Research = completed Horseback Riding, Mathematics, Construction, Currency, Bee-line Aesthetics/Literature (in progress)
City 5/Tlaxcala founded T123/200 AD, 2SW + 3W of Capitol, on riverside plains hill with Gems, Gold, 2 Silver and Sheep in BFC. Some nice
resources, but quite a few unusable Mountains also in BFC.
City 6/Khoisan (Barbarian) captured T128/325 AD, on riverside plains tile 6W + 1NW of Capitol, with Gold & Fur in BFC. Renamed Fort Khoisan, it can share Sheep with Tlaxcala id needed.
Session 3 Autolog highlights...
Turn 117/500 (50 AD)
Turn 120/500 (125 AD)
Diplomacy: Suleiman (Ottomans) offers to trade Monarchy to Montezuma (Aztec) for Code of Laws
Diplomacy: Montezuma (Aztec) accepts trade of Code of Laws to Suleiman (Ottomans) for Monarchy
Turn 121/500 (150 AD)
Huayna Capac (Inca) and Washington (America) have signed a peace treaty
Turn 122/500 (175 AD)
Confucianism has spread: Athens (Greek Empire)
Turn 123/500 (200 AD)
Tlaxcala founded
Turn 127/500 (300 AD)
Confucianism has spread: Samsun (Ottoman Empire)
Turn 128/500 (325 AD)
While attacking in Barbarian territory at Khoisan, Chariot 3 (Teotihuacan) (1.84/4) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 94.1%)
Captured Khoisan (Barbarian)
Fort Khoisan begins: Worker (61 turns)
Turn 129/500 (350 AD)
State Religion Change: Alexander (Greece) from 'Judaism' to 'Confucianism'
Turn 132/500 (425 AD)
Suryavarman II (Khmer) declares war on Sitting Bull (Native America)
Turn 133/500 (450 AD)
Fort Khoisan's borders expand
Hinduism has spread: Fort Khoisan
Turn 134/500 (475 AD)
Diplomacy (Help Request): Suryavarman II (Khmer) asks Montezuma (Aztec) for Horseback Riding; Montezuma REFUSES.
Session 3 Comments: now have the ability to build Horse Archers & Cats, so time to get serious about building up my military. I was going to make a run at building The Great Library. But I think I'll change that, and target Civil Service, Feudalism or Theology for my next research. Plan B: Alexander converting to Confucianism is an interesting twist. A couple of Ottoman cities have Confucianism, so I think I'll try and use a Spy to convert Suleiman, and also convert myself. Maybe form a Confucian alliance, and see if I can get a joint war going against some non-Confucian heathen. I'll attempt to build The Apostolic Palace and try for a Religious Victory, with Domination or Conquest as a backup plan.
Stats at 500 AD:
6 Cities, 4 Workers, 20 population
50/turn at 50% Science Slider with zero income
No wars for Aztec Empire (yet)
Military at 500 AD:
Warriors = 3
Archers = 6
Chariots = 2
Jaguars = 5
Axemen = 3
Spearmen = 2
Horse Archers = 1
Initial Plan: I'm going for Great Wall, will possibly try my hand at some early espionage, and see if my Jaguars can win any early victories.
Session 1 4000 BC to 500 BC
Wandered around a bit more than I usually do, finally settled Tenochtitlan on Turn 2, 1SE + 1E of starting location, on a riverside desert tile with 3 Cows in BFC. Initial builds = Worker, Barracks, Archer x4, Scout, Settler. I gave some of the Archers the Guerrilla I promo and stationed them on Hills for early Barb protection.
Session 1 Research = Animal Husbandry, Archery, Mining, The Wheel, Masonry, Bronze Working, Agriculture, Polytheism, Priesthood, Writing, Pottery, Iron Working, Code of Laws (in progress at end of Session 1).
City 2/Teotihuacan founded T45/2200 BC, 3NE + 1E of Capitol, on a plains hill. Not such a great location for city growth, but it claims 2 Cows, Gems, Stone, and a Horse in its BFC.
City 3/Tlatelolco founded T87/700 BC, 3NW + 3N of Capitol, on a desert tile 2S of river, and claiming Gems, Silver and Horse in its BFC.
AI Contacts made in Session 1
- Alexander of Greece T7/3720 BC
Suleiman of Ottomans T11/3560 BC
Sitting Bull of Native America T29/2840 BC
Washington of America T77/950 BC
Huayna Capac of Inca T81/850 BC
Hmmm... looks like I'll keep an eye on Suleiman as a potential first conquest target.
Wonders Built
- The Great Wall in Capitol/Tenochtitlan on T59/1640 BC
Stonehenge in City 2/Teotihuacan on T67/1320 BC
Pyramids in Capitol/Tenochtitlan on T80/875 BC
Started The Oracle, but only built it for 3 turns before someone beat me to it. Wasn't planning on going for the The Pyramids initially, but went ahead and built them since I found the Stone early. Switched to Representation once they were complete; maybe having the ability to switch to Police State may come in handy later on, since building The Pyramids delayed my empire expansion plans.
The Great Wall helped generate a Great Spy on T89/650 BC, which I settled in the Capitol for the extra
and Session 2 500 BC to 1 AD
Session 2 Research = completed Code Of Laws, Meditation, Monotheism, Horseback Riding (in progress at end of Session 2).
Session 2 Tech Trades
T111/100 BC Code of Laws to HC/Inca for Alphabet & Fishing
T113/50 BC Monotheism to HC/Inca for Sailing
City 4/Texcoco founded T100/375 BC, 2NE + 3E of city 2, on riverside plains hill with 2 Cows and Iron in BFC.
T102/325 BC Confucianism founded in City 4/Texcoco.
AI Contacts made in Session 2
- Suryavarman II of Khmer T100/375 BC
Session 2 Notable Events
T103/300 BC Huayna Capac (Inca) declares war on Washington (America)
T108/175 BC - Confucianism has spread: Thebes (Greek Empire)
T112/75 BC - Alexander Graham Bell (Great Engineer) born in Tenochtitlan
T113/50 BC - Diplomacy (War Request): Huayna Capac (Inca) asks Montezuma (Aztec) to declare war on Washington (America); Montezuma REFUSES.
Session 2 Comments: Still building up my forces, and Washington is not too close and I don't have any good information on his territory or military forces, so I'm staying out of that war for now. Still on pretty good terms with HC since we're both Buddhist. Also still keeping an eye on Suleiman as a possible target.
Session 3 1 AD to 500 AD
Session 3 Research = completed Horseback Riding, Mathematics, Construction, Currency, Bee-line Aesthetics/Literature (in progress)
City 5/Tlaxcala founded T123/200 AD, 2SW + 3W of Capitol, on riverside plains hill with Gems, Gold, 2 Silver and Sheep in BFC. Some nice
resources, but quite a few unusable Mountains also in BFC.City 6/Khoisan (Barbarian) captured T128/325 AD, on riverside plains tile 6W + 1NW of Capitol, with Gold & Fur in BFC. Renamed Fort Khoisan, it can share Sheep with Tlaxcala id needed.
Session 3 Autolog highlights...
Turn 117/500 (50 AD)
- Tlatelolco finishes: The Temple of Artemis (hurried with Great Engineer)
Confucianism has spread: Edirne (Ottoman Empire)
Turn 120/500 (125 AD)
Diplomacy: Suleiman (Ottomans) offers to trade Monarchy to Montezuma (Aztec) for Code of Laws
Diplomacy: Montezuma (Aztec) accepts trade of Code of Laws to Suleiman (Ottomans) for Monarchy
Turn 121/500 (150 AD)
Huayna Capac (Inca) and Washington (America) have signed a peace treaty
Turn 122/500 (175 AD)
Confucianism has spread: Athens (Greek Empire)
Turn 123/500 (200 AD)
Tlaxcala founded
Turn 127/500 (300 AD)
Confucianism has spread: Samsun (Ottoman Empire)
Turn 128/500 (325 AD)
While attacking in Barbarian territory at Khoisan, Chariot 3 (Teotihuacan) (1.84/4) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 94.1%)
Captured Khoisan (Barbarian)
Fort Khoisan begins: Worker (61 turns)
Turn 129/500 (350 AD)
State Religion Change: Alexander (Greece) from 'Judaism' to 'Confucianism'
Turn 132/500 (425 AD)
Suryavarman II (Khmer) declares war on Sitting Bull (Native America)
Turn 133/500 (450 AD)
Fort Khoisan's borders expand
Hinduism has spread: Fort Khoisan
Turn 134/500 (475 AD)
Diplomacy (Help Request): Suryavarman II (Khmer) asks Montezuma (Aztec) for Horseback Riding; Montezuma REFUSES.
Session 3 Comments: now have the ability to build Horse Archers & Cats, so time to get serious about building up my military. I was going to make a run at building The Great Library. But I think I'll change that, and target Civil Service, Feudalism or Theology for my next research. Plan B: Alexander converting to Confucianism is an interesting twist. A couple of Ottoman cities have Confucianism, so I think I'll try and use a Spy to convert Suleiman, and also convert myself. Maybe form a Confucian alliance, and see if I can get a joint war going against some non-Confucian heathen. I'll attempt to build The Apostolic Palace and try for a Religious Victory, with Domination or Conquest as a backup plan.
Stats at 500 AD:
6 Cities, 4 Workers, 20 population
50
/turn at 50% Science Slider with zero incomeNo wars for Aztec Empire (yet)
Military at 500 AD:
Warriors = 3
Archers = 6
Chariots = 2
Jaguars = 5
Axemen = 3
Spearmen = 2
Horse Archers = 1
adrianj
Deity
Looking pretty good there Griff.
One question:
You later go on to say that maybe you'd consider going for the Great Library or even the Apostolic Palace. What is it about the Temple of Artemis that made you want to use a GE on it?
One question:
I'm a little baffled by this.
You later go on to say that maybe you'd consider going for the Great Library or even the Apostolic Palace. What is it about the Temple of Artemis that made you want to use a GE on it?
Grifftavian
Emperor
Hmmm... a good question for which I don't really have a good answer. It has been about 6 days since I played up to 500 AD, and I haven't played since then due to too much RL stuff going on, so I don't really recall what I was thinking at the time. I'll blame it on a combination of Myopia and old habits. The old habit: "Oooh, I've got a Great Engineer, what can I use him on right now?"
The Myopia factor: never stopping to consider if I should save him for something better later on.
Sad to say, that's about it. That and not having a clearly defined idea of how I wanted to play the game at the time. 20/20 Hindsight: there was probably a better way to use the GE. If that's the only mistake I make in this game, it will be a minor miracle.afker
Chieftain
Goal: Religious victory by any means possible.
Settled 1E of starting location and teched AH first, then Mining so worker would have something to do, then Masonry and Bronze Working. Built worker-warrior-warrrior-warrior-started settler then switched to Great Wall at T27 and finished it T42.
With borders safe from pesky barbs began spam settlers. Settled 12 cities by 500AD, particularly liked the Great Wall feature of pushing barbs back with settlers with little or no escort
. Settled Great Spy. Tech rate 20% building lots of sacrificial altars to boost economy. Other civilizations have between 4-8 cites except for Khmer who are down to their last one. Tried for Pyramids - missed but the gold was welcome. Built Apostolic Palace (Buddism) but lost first vote to Huanya Capac. Ottomans are friends to both of us so the task now is to convince them the Aztecs are more worthy of their vote. Modest military. Couple of bits of good fortune: Tin in one of the capital mines and popped copper, despite the game designer's best intentions 
Settled 1E of starting location and teched AH first, then Mining so worker would have something to do, then Masonry and Bronze Working. Built worker-warrior-warrrior-warrior-started settler then switched to Great Wall at T27 and finished it T42.
With borders safe from pesky barbs began spam settlers. Settled 12 cities by 500AD, particularly liked the Great Wall feature of pushing barbs back with settlers with little or no escort
. Settled Great Spy. Tech rate 20% building lots of sacrificial altars to boost economy. Other civilizations have between 4-8 cites except for Khmer who are down to their last one. Tried for Pyramids - missed but the gold was welcome. Built Apostolic Palace (Buddism) but lost first vote to Huanya Capac. Ottomans are friends to both of us so the task now is to convince them the Aztecs are more worthy of their vote. Modest military. Couple of bits of good fortune: Tin in one of the capital mines and popped copper, despite the game designer's best intentions 
I see some of you guys fared a lot better than I did.
Final goal :
conquest
first part goals :
- get a few cities of value running
- get the GW
- get pottery for granaries, CoL for sacrificial altars and IW for Jaguars then construction for catapults
- kill 1 or 2 neighbours
- get feudalism to get capitulations
I got a few cities with gold, silver gems, so everything was allright for this one. I was a bit low on hammers though.
Got the GW without problems.
Got the techs and the needed infra allright too.
Didn't manage much on the "kill neighbours" part though. the ottomans turned out tougher than I thought.
edit : more to read in a later post
Final goal :
conquest
first part goals :
- get a few cities of value running
- get the GW
- get pottery for granaries, CoL for sacrificial altars and IW for Jaguars then construction for catapults
- kill 1 or 2 neighbours
- get feudalism to get capitulations
I got a few cities with gold, silver gems, so everything was allright for this one. I was a bit low on hammers though.
Got the GW without problems.
Got the techs and the needed infra allright too.
Didn't manage much on the "kill neighbours" part though. the ottomans turned out tougher than I thought.
edit : more to read in a later post
jesusin, contender. Goal: Fastest Domination Victory.
Plan:
Wander with the settler for a great commerce site in a more central position. Build 1 or 2 cities with lots of hammers. Chariot rush 2 AI before 1000BC, that will make easy to HA rush another 2 before 1AD, cause the will be still small (3 cities).
The capital will (hardly) sustain the empire economy. I will beeline HBR, then slowly crawl up to currency which will save me. After all that most of the map will be empty, so I'll build zillions of settlers and escorts, will settle all of them at the same time, hire an artist per city in CS and pop borders to reach the needed land.
Initial Development:
Scout N-NE to see if there's something worth to stay for. Settler 2SE. When I decide to keep moving my settler SE, it's a pity that my Scout won't be able to help him.
Now, why didn't I settle with fresh water, 3 cows and 2 FP? I wanted a better commerce capital, but was there any hope to have one anywhere close in this kind of map? I disliked the forested cow tile since I wasn't researching BW, I disliked settling on a FP.... but not settling there was my worst mistake this game.
6 turn later I hadn't found any good place to settle. I vaguely remembered something about losing a conquest victory if you don't settle in a number of turns, so I settled in panic in a 3 cows site near the sea, without fresh water and worst still, without a single cow in the inner ring, so I started working a 1 food 1 hammer tile.
Of course the very next turn my scout found a 4 cows riverside site with one of the cows on a FP... I felt like giving up.
Builds: Worker, warrior, settler, worker.
Research: AH, Wheel, Archery, HBR.
Disaster time:
My second city was settled in the 4 cows site, only to realize that it would be crappy till borders expanded. When rushing you must settle taking into account only the inner ring. I should know better.
Fiddling around with the tech path, I forgot to finish The Wheel while thinking I had, so when I needed connecting horses I lost 2 turns... I resisted the urge to give up.
I positioned my warrior next to Alex' worker in order to keep his horses unconnected... when the first barb warrior appeared close to my second city.
The city was lost undefended, a couple of turns short of completing the monument and 1 turn short of completing a warrior. Luckily it grew to size 2 the same turn it was taken, so at least it wasn't razed. Enough for a session.
I wasn't eager to continue this game. When I did, I hurriedly retook the city and started massing up a horde of mounted units... so hurriedly that I gifted a worker to a barb, when I could have avoided it. Do I really still hope to win an Award with this game?
A bit before 1000BC 2 HA and 2 chariots attack Athens, with 2 Archers and 1 wounded Archer. Win first battle at 71%, suicide a chariot and then lose two 90%+ battles... Enough is enough, I give up.
Self-criticism (you don't need to read this):
Plan:
Wander with the settler for a great commerce site in a more central position. Build 1 or 2 cities with lots of hammers. Chariot rush 2 AI before 1000BC, that will make easy to HA rush another 2 before 1AD, cause the will be still small (3 cities).
The capital will (hardly) sustain the empire economy. I will beeline HBR, then slowly crawl up to currency which will save me. After all that most of the map will be empty, so I'll build zillions of settlers and escorts, will settle all of them at the same time, hire an artist per city in CS and pop borders to reach the needed land.
Initial Development:
Scout N-NE to see if there's something worth to stay for. Settler 2SE. When I decide to keep moving my settler SE, it's a pity that my Scout won't be able to help him.
Now, why didn't I settle with fresh water, 3 cows and 2 FP? I wanted a better commerce capital, but was there any hope to have one anywhere close in this kind of map? I disliked the forested cow tile since I wasn't researching BW, I disliked settling on a FP.... but not settling there was my worst mistake this game.
6 turn later I hadn't found any good place to settle. I vaguely remembered something about losing a conquest victory if you don't settle in a number of turns, so I settled in panic in a 3 cows site near the sea, without fresh water and worst still, without a single cow in the inner ring, so I started working a 1 food 1 hammer tile.
Of course the very next turn my scout found a 4 cows riverside site with one of the cows on a FP... I felt like giving up.
Builds: Worker, warrior, settler, worker.
Research: AH, Wheel, Archery, HBR.
Disaster time:
My second city was settled in the 4 cows site, only to realize that it would be crappy till borders expanded. When rushing you must settle taking into account only the inner ring. I should know better.
Fiddling around with the tech path, I forgot to finish The Wheel while thinking I had, so when I needed connecting horses I lost 2 turns... I resisted the urge to give up.
I positioned my warrior next to Alex' worker in order to keep his horses unconnected... when the first barb warrior appeared close to my second city.
The city was lost undefended, a couple of turns short of completing the monument and 1 turn short of completing a warrior. Luckily it grew to size 2 the same turn it was taken, so at least it wasn't razed. Enough for a session.
I wasn't eager to continue this game. When I did, I hurriedly retook the city and started massing up a horde of mounted units... so hurriedly that I gifted a worker to a barb, when I could have avoided it. Do I really still hope to win an Award with this game?
A bit before 1000BC 2 HA and 2 chariots attack Athens, with 2 Archers and 1 wounded Archer. Win first battle at 71%, suicide a chariot and then lose two 90%+ battles... Enough is enough, I give up.
Self-criticism (you don't need to read this):
Spoiler :
loads of mining resources available are enough to fund the 10 cities mentioned.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 13,474
Automatic Conquest Loss?
There isn't an automatic conquest loss by number of turns, but once Barb Animals spawn, you do take the risk that one could come out of the fog of war and kill you immediately after Ending the Turn.
A Major Goal of Moving the Settler was Achieved
Sufficient Attackers
Besides, had you won the last fight with, say, 0.3 Health left, then lost the City to an AI Archer or a Barb Unit within a couple of turns, would you have been any happier? Probably not.
Expanding Across the Map
At 1AD, I only had 4 Cities, of Sizes 7, 6, 6, and 6. I suppose that if I'd pumped out more Settlers, I could have had more Cities, but I'm not sure if I could have managed 10 while avoiding the loss of some of those Cities to the Barbs, as I did not prioritize The Great Wall until after having Stone connected.
After starting to build The Great Wall, a Random Event wiped out a Road between my Stone and City that it was connected to (I was short a few Gold to be able to pay the 40 Gold that it asked to save a Road) and I paused in building The Great Wall for 3 turns, missing the completion of it by 2 turns. Had I gotten that Wonder, like some others did, that would have likely been the best way to have PEACEFULLY expanded to 10 Cities.
Using War to expand probably also would have been helped by either:
a) Building the Great Wall so that the homelands could be left relatively undefended
OR
b) Do what you did and settle in a more-centralized location, so that Cities would still need to be fog-busted and/or defended, but not as much as in our starting area, since the AIs would HELP to take care of the Barbs a little more, but not completely take care of them, as you found out with your second City.
Risk Tolerance
Still, it sounds like you set for yourself some extremely lofty goals, and when you saw yourself potentially falling short of said goals, you took on several risks to try and help you to catch up. Of the risks that you mentioned, they were are leaving a City undefended on a map with a lot of Barbs and Aggressive AIs and attacking an AI City with too small of an attacker-to-defender ratio. There might be other risks that you took which may have paid off, but when you play such a risky game, you have to be willing to lose more often than when you accept less risk.
So be it. The speedy rabbit may race into the arms of great victory or just as easily race into the jaws of defeat. The patient turtle will achieve neither but will more consistently perform better than the average performance of the rabbit.
It's just that some "rabbit-like" players are too embarassed to submit their losses, so the results tables often hide the fact that they lost or abandoned their games. Thus, the results tables are skewed more towards showing the great victories instead of also showing a lot of the great defeats.
What you likely remember is a 2-movement-point Barb Animal that was out of view of your Settler moving in to "eat you" after you ended your turn.
There isn't an automatic conquest loss by number of turns, but once Barb Animals spawn, you do take the risk that one could come out of the fog of war and kill you immediately after Ending the Turn.
A Major Goal of Moving the Settler was Achieved
It is weird that you felt like giving up. Certainly, you couldn't have rebuilt and moved your Palace in less than 6 turns. One would also think that a lot of turns Conquesting AIs would be saved if your capital location was closer to them. According to your goal of wanting to be in a more centralized location with your Palace, it seems that you more than made up for a the turns invested in moving.
Sufficient Attackers
Not enough units, my friend, not enough units. Without siege, you should plan to bring along AT LEAST double the number of defenders in your attack. I actually like to bring 1 unit more than double, so that you'll, in most cases, have a full-health defender for the City, and can also stand a chance of winning in those times when "double" the number of defenders is just short of having "enough" units.
Besides, had you won the last fight with, say, 0.3 Health left, then lost the City to an AI Archer or a Barb Unit within a couple of turns, would you have been any happier? Probably not.
Expanding Across the Map
I'm not quite sure how to accomplish what you want to do, myself.
At 1AD, I only had 4 Cities, of Sizes 7, 6, 6, and 6. I suppose that if I'd pumped out more Settlers, I could have had more Cities, but I'm not sure if I could have managed 10 while avoiding the loss of some of those Cities to the Barbs, as I did not prioritize The Great Wall until after having Stone connected.
After starting to build The Great Wall, a Random Event wiped out a Road between my Stone and City that it was connected to (I was short a few Gold to be able to pay the 40 Gold that it asked to save a Road) and I paused in building The Great Wall for 3 turns, missing the completion of it by 2 turns. Had I gotten that Wonder, like some others did, that would have likely been the best way to have PEACEFULLY expanded to 10 Cities.
Using War to expand probably also would have been helped by either:
a) Building the Great Wall so that the homelands could be left relatively undefended
OR
b) Do what you did and settle in a more-centralized location, so that Cities would still need to be fog-busted and/or defended, but not as much as in our starting area, since the AIs would HELP to take care of the Barbs a little more, but not completely take care of them, as you found out with your second City.
Risk Tolerance
Still, it sounds like you set for yourself some extremely lofty goals, and when you saw yourself potentially falling short of said goals, you took on several risks to try and help you to catch up. Of the risks that you mentioned, they were are leaving a City undefended on a map with a lot of Barbs and Aggressive AIs and attacking an AI City with too small of an attacker-to-defender ratio. There might be other risks that you took which may have paid off, but when you play such a risky game, you have to be willing to lose more often than when you accept less risk.
So be it. The speedy rabbit may race into the arms of great victory or just as easily race into the jaws of defeat. The patient turtle will achieve neither but will more consistently perform better than the average performance of the rabbit.
It's just that some "rabbit-like" players are too embarassed to submit their losses, so the results tables often hide the fact that they lost or abandoned their games. Thus, the results tables are skewed more towards showing the great victories instead of also showing a lot of the great defeats.
quoting myself, I will expand a bit on what I did
I settled 1 SE (1 S of the forested cows)
initial tech path :
agri>mining>masonry (3080 BC : started the GW, finished in 2360 BC)
following that, I teched
Spoiler :
Cities I built
Spoiler :
Wonders I built
Spoiler :
started a war with soliman in 250 AD, but was a lot too confident, he was very much alive in 500 AD
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