BOTM 43 First Spoiler -- to 1AD

[srad]

Goal was to join in on the space race. After seeing srad's opening, I don't think I'm competitive, but hey.

Not sure if the opening is that good. I'm totally missing infrastructure because I sacrificed everything in expansion.

And there are still a lot of turns to go with lots of room for major strategy mistakes that I could make (made ).

 

[MangeTonChapeau]

Settled 1E after moving scout NE revealed additional ivory in scope for capital, figuring I would use the grass hills with a dedicated production city on the west, sharing the rice to pump up the city.

First tech order : assumed we were going to be isolated, and seeing little happiness resources on the island, went for an early religion to get extra happiness. Not being used to start with mysticism, I aimed for monotheism, but researched masonry first before polytheism - stupid move, as I gained no benefit from early masonry, and failed to race for hinduism. Got beat to monotheism by 1 turn by MM.

First build order : warrior, workboat, warrior, settler (took late worker strategy as I was going for religious techs early on). Built fairly quickly 2 work boats for exploration, met with MM, SB and the Koreans soon.

Settled rather fast the starting island with 4 cities, aimed for GLH as biggest priority, but didn't optimize my techs so I actually had the time to build the pyramids before the GLH.

Mistake 1 :Switched too long from Exp to wonder building - went for the hanging gardens (which I missed by 1 turn) instead of moving fast towards the diamond island in the west. Should have stopped with pyramids and GLH.
Mistake 2 : Settled on copper island before settling on diamond island - was clear that copper would be ours, but diamonds would be disputed with SB. When I woke up, I only had the time to settle 2 cities there - 1 with the 2 fishes on the south east, 1 on the very north eastern tip of the island, 2 squares from a SB city (aiming to culture capture first the diamonds then the city - could finally only capture the diamonds from time to time)
Mistake 3 : failed to grasp the power of the rathaus, in hindsight I would have prioritized code of laws to get both the religion and the powerful building allowing for faster exp).

Was aiming for my standard domination victory, unless it gets tedious in the end and I wait for a diplomatic victory.

 

[WelshGandalf]

I took ages to hook up the copper in my game. That slowed me down as I didn't really want to send warriors with my settlers. Exception being my first city to the west, which settled on that outcrop which had a mountain separating it from the rest of the island.

BTW I learnt a lot from srad's map in this thread, I didn't have nearly as much knowledge as that at 1AD (hadn't found any other civ's land).

 

[kcd_swede]

I took ages to hook up the copper in my game. That slowed me down as I didn't really want to send warriors with my settlers. Exception being my first city to the west, which settled on that outcrop which had a mountain separating it from the rest of the island.

BTW I learnt a lot from srad's map in this thread, I didn't have nearly as much knowledge as that at 1AD (hadn't found any other civ's land).

This is often the case, that the first spoilers of one player have information that the other players hadn't arrived at yet. We restrict the first spoilers to show only galley access civs and land (copper, iron, and horse ok, but no other hidden resources), but of course what is reachable through culture-bridges (or map trading?) will vary from player to player.

I don't see it as a huge problem since the players who haven't gotten that information themselves are probably behind the curve and can benefit (friendly aspect) without a big impact on the competitive aspect. But I can understand it might take something away from the experience for you; if so, I suggest you should go well past the spoiler cut-off dates before opening a spoiler thread. (Particularly if you haven't explored all the land you can see that is reachable).

Good luck in the rest of your game, and thanks for posting!

 

[Frederiksberg]

Talking about mistakes I lost a settler moving carelessly next to a tile that was in the fog . Never play when you are running late for an appointment . Anyway, this saved me from expanding too fast . At 1AD I have 7 cities and a couple of settlers ready to go. Built the GLH, the Oracle (for MC) and Moai. Found Mansa, Sitting Bull and Shaka. Not sure if I met Wang before or after 1AD (Am now at 250 AD). Cathy escaped my scouting, really should have done better here.

Early tech path: Fishing - Mining - BW - Sailing - Agriculture.
Early builds: Warrior, work boat, work boat, settler

Settled 1S to make room for a city on top of plains ivory. First city here quite early ~T30 (sharing fish) and 2nd city on the copper and fish island ~T50. Third city settled on the North coast next to the lake.

At 1AD, I only have 6 cities, with two more settlers on the way. CS is 2t from completion. I only just discovered Shaka and the SE land a few turns ago. I don't think I'll be posting a competitive Space game.

Why wouldn't you be competitive? You are closer to CS than everyone else (I had ~10 turns to go in 1AD).

I don't think I used the seers too well early on, later on in the game I figured out how to best take advantage of them, but it took me awhile to remember old lessons from sgotm12.

I hear you . Sounds like you and srad both got off to a really good start

Strategy: Rex like crazy and then start building the infrastructure.

13 cities - Rex was good, too good ... ?

Judging from your map you managed to block Shaka from getting to the large SE land mass and that is surely worth a temporary delay in research. Like BBP I got a late expansion (after Moai) in my fish and copper city and Shaka had already started settling there so now I probably need to consider how I can best attack Shaka.

 

[WelshGandalf]

This is often the case, that the first spoilers of one player have information that the other players hadn't arrived at yet. We restrict the first spoilers to show only galley access civs and land (copper, iron, and horse ok, but no other hidden resources), but of course what is reachable through culture-bridges (or map trading?) will vary from player to player.

I don't see it as a huge problem since the players who haven't gotten that information themselves are probably behind the curve and can benefit (friendly aspect) without a big impact on the competitive aspect. But I can understand it might take something away from the experience for you; if so, I suggest you should go well past the spoiler cut-off dates before opening a spoiler thread. (Particularly if you haven't explored all the land you can see that is reachable).

Good luck in the rest of your game, and thanks for posting!

I didn't find that it took away an experience for me. I just felt I should mention it as in a way it does feel unfair in my favour. But I see your point that those it helps are probably behind anyway It also made me realise I was stupid not to explore round a coulple of islands & that getting first border pops on island can be important (I didn't get the copper-island border pop until, err 300 AD or something like that and only did so as a result of this thread).

I do love posting & reading up on how other people are doing. In fact I often want to do it more, eg 1000 AD as well rather than having to wait until the end, though I know that wouldn't work as by 1000 AD there's such a huge difference in where people are up to.

 

[srad]

Judging from your map you managed to block Shaka from getting to the large SE land mass and that is surely worth a temporary delay in research. Like BBP I got a late expansion (after Moai) in my fish and copper city and Shaka had already started settling there so now I probably need to consider how I can best attack Shaka.

Yes, I closed borders after I realized that this is Shaka's only access to the SE land mass.

 

[srad]

It also made me realise I was stupid not to explore round a coulple of islands & that getting first border pops on island can be important

I consider early scouting as very important because the knowledge of the land/opponents has a big impact on the strategy.

 

[Amao]

srad's rexing was impressive. i just got 1ad and only have 8? cities. shaka colonized the east continent, but i'm mounting an offensive before his cities got enough defenders. I'm gonna to use triemes to block further reinforcement to come. i'd like sack a city or 2, his galley came across the 2nd time and went into fog of war, to clean up the east continent before i settle for peace, hopefully. we'll see. my chariots are on the way hopefully arriving before his lone axeman got archer company...

Other highlights:
Settled 1E after scout went east.
Agri->Mine->??? fishing
I ran into the barbarian scare, too, as i sent a lone settler to the west thinking it was a tiny island. The barbarian warrior didn't went my way, luckily, and perhaps was killed by mm's skirmisher, later. I regret sending my galley into shaka's land, should have pulled her back and block him for good by shipping a new settler.

thoughts and questions:
mm has so many high techs, yet, cathy only has a few. i can't tell if cathy has Edu or Guild. any trick to tell w/o extra info? although from the game info, she's more likely to have Edu. How am I gonna to trade it, then? Using PP? Well, i'll know that for sure after I got Bureau and trade mm's paper. BTW, is this allowed to discuss?

 

[babybluepants]

Why wouldn't you be competitive? You are closer to CS than everyone else (I had ~10 turns to go in 1AD).

Well, if I was teching Education, and srad struggling on Currency, maybe. Being only turns ahead in research with half the empire size doesn't really cut it, IMHO. That's the power of GLH on this kind of map. We'll see how it plays out, I guess, but I'd expect the saves that are on CS with 9+ cities to be miles ahead at the end.

 

[srad]

The mid game is as important as the start for a space race ... and there is a lot of improvement for me possible

Just want to encourage you ... don't be too impressed by the 13 cities.

 

[Trystero]

I decided to play the map, rather than pick a VC early.

Tell us what happened up to 3000BC, first:
Where did you settle? Why?
What were your first 3 technologies researched? Why?
What were your first 4 city builds?
Did you prioritize any particular tile improvements? Which ones?

I moved the scout to reveal the coast tile 1S+1SW of the settler in the BFC. Since I didn't see a seafood resource, I moved 1E and settled there to claim the fish and more land tiles. Perhaps 1S would have been stronger to claim stone and SH since we start with Mysticism.

Early scouting showed us to be isolated on an island, so I set the GLH as my early wonder target. The plan was to use the extra trade routes from it and Currency, as well as the rathaus, to help fund expansion to neighboring islands.

I first researched Fishing (to connect fish), then Mining > BW (to increase production). Since I was aiming for the GLH, these were followed by Sailing > Masonry > and finally Ag (connect rice).

My initial build order was: Worker (partial, until Fishing was done) > WB (improve fish) > finish worker > WB (scouting) > 3 x warriors (fogbust the island and garrison duty) > lighthouse > GLH.

I prioritized improving the fish (food) and camping the elephants for early production, happiness, and some commerce.

Then tell us about your game up to 1AD.
How are things going?
What were your goals to this point, and did you acheive them?
Have you come up with any creative ideas or strategies specific to this game?

My early plan expansion plan was somewhat slowed by wonder-chasing. Specifically, after the GLH, I decided to pursue the Oracle for either CoL for the rathaus or a religion, or MC for forges or maybe the Colossus. I was late with the Oracle, so I whipped and decided to grab MC at 850 BC, since I hadn't finished Writing yet, and I didn't want to push my luck any further.

At 1 AD I had 5 cities with 2 more about to be settled (settlers in transit): 2 on the home island (capital and NW horse city), 1 on the SE copper island, and 2 on the western island. Sitting Bull beat me to the western 2 gems/iron spot on the western island, but I have the rest of that island blocked off.

I have met Sitting Bull and Wang Kon, and isolated Mansa. I used Mansa for Map and tech trading. I will focus my EP on him after I get some rathaus built. The current plan is to finsih up the expansion phase and gear up for a renaissance war with SB. He owns the GW and the Pyramids, and his well-poisoning behavior makes eliminating him a priority. I am leaning toward a Domination-type game at this point.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Yes, I closed borders after I realized that this is Shaka's only access to the SE land mass.

Nice job expanding! Very impressive!

I kind of did the opposite of the above (in a bad way): when I met Shaka, I immediately Opened Borders with him.

After closing the trading window, I realised that I had met him by him landing a Settler Party on the western edge of the SE land mass about 4 turns after my Settler Party had landed... but I was still exploring for a good location with my Settler Party.

I immediately settled on that turn, which prevented Shaka from settling where he landed and would have even blocked his Settler Party... had I not just finished Opening Borders with him! So, of course, he proceeded to walk his Settler Party through my Cultural Borders to another decent location on the island (in an area that I had yet to explore).

Of course, I couldn't Close Borders for another 10 turns, by which point he had sent another Settler Party past. At that point, I just decided to leave our Borders Open.


I had had visions of starting an early-game war but alas the Wonder Bug struck and I tried building too many Wonders--some of which I missed-out on to the AIs.


The lack of Health around the capital was an issue that I figured more people would have been discussing... until I looked again at the starting screenshot and remembered that it was the Challenger save that had removed my Health (by way of not having Forests in the capital's big fat cross). Still, it wasn't a terrible situation, as being Imperialistic meant getting a bonus to Settlers on Hammer-based sources. In that sense, it meant that if I lost a few Hammers from Food-based sources due to Unhealthiness, it wasn't as bad as if the penalty had been Ivory or Hills removed from the map, which would have meant losing out on Hammer-based sources of Hammers when building Settlers, which, of course, would have also meant losing out on the bonus Hammers that come with the Imperialistic Trait.

So, all in all, it has been a fair an fun Challenger penalty to struggle to overcome in the early game, while not being as potentially game-altering as having AIs researching tech at a faster pace by having them play on a difficulty level higher. In other words, good choice for the Challenger penalty. Also, thanks for leaving SOME Forests... I at least saw ONE Forest grow on our starting landmass to date, so there is hope that the gypsy moths can be recovered from.

 

[Conquistador 63]

I decided to join srad’s space challenge, but by the looks of it, I’m lagging terribly behind the pack.

I couldn't resist starting this game and playing up to 1AD, but then I have paused it and I'm giving a go at jesusin's immortal GOTM.

Where did you settle? Why?

Scouted NE, saw another ivory, settled 1E.

What were your first 3 technologies researched? Why?

Agri/Fish/Wheel (food+hook ivory for )

What were your first 4 city builds?

Worker, WB (2960BC), Warrior, WB (2480BC).

Did you prioritize any particular tile improvements? Which ones?

Farmed rice then camped/roaded ivory sources.

Short story for my game so far: I got distracted building wonders which would help fund expansion, and forgot to actually expand!

All I have is a size 8 capital with Oracle(MC), GLH, Mids, Colossus, and a couple more cities in starting landmass, plus one in the copper island, and another atop rice in western landmass. Total: 5 cities, 24 pop. Health is a concern as pointed out by Dhoomstriker, all my forest were used up to build those wonders.

Research rate is 83bpt breaking even @ 80%, 5t away from CS. Running Rep/slavery (should have chosen Caste for faster border pops).

Just met Shaka, who has settled the SE landmass. Haven't met Cathy yet. WK has settled the best spot of the gems island.

I believe my only (faint) hopes of catching up a bit are teching to Machinery and expand with the help of Macemen. Those pesky protective AI's aren't exactly the easier war targets, though, and Shaka's cities might be too far for maintenance. Let's see how it unfolds.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

Tell us what happened up to 3000BC, first:
Where did you settle? Why?
What were your first 3 technologies researched? Why?
What were your first 4 city builds?
Did you prioritize any particular tile improvements? Which ones?

I settled 1E, to put the fish, rice and both ivory in my fat cross.

My first techs were Fishing, Agriculture and Mining; the first two to utilize those resources, the latter as a step towards Bronze Working and slavery.

I developed the hunting camps and the farm first. I didn't research Pottery until 1760 BC, after BW.

Then tell us about your game up to 1AD.
How are things going?
What were your goals to this point, and did you acheive them?
Have you come up with any creative ideas or strategies specific to this game?

Goals? We were supposed to have goals?

It was a slow start. By 1 AD I had six cities, with the GLH completed in Prague. Mansu Musa was so friendly when I found him that he immediately gave me his world map! My plan was to continue peaceful tech trading with him, throughout the game.

 

[Smashace]

Hey everyone! Just getting back into Civ'ing it up again. Took like a year off from playing it due to college, life, etc. Great to see these games are still going strong!

Alrighty, down to business.

Tell us what happened up to 3000BC, first:
Where did you settle? Why?
What were your first 3 technologies researched? Why?
What were your first 4 city builds?
Did you prioritize any particular tile improvements? Which ones?

--I sent my Scout SW and found no seafood tiles. I decided to stay put for the hammers.

First Techs
--Wheel(3680)
--Masonry(3280)
--Fishing(2680)
I wanted to get the Stone setup quickly so I could get SH and see what Swede's awesome map looks like! (You did make the map, right?)

First 4 builds
--Worker(3400)
--Warrior(wasn't finished)
--Stonehenge(2520)
--Great Wall (2200) <----I did this for the GG points in addition to Charle's Imperialistic trait. You never know.

Priority?
Yeah. Get the roads up fast.

Then tell us about your game up to 1AD.
How are things going?
What were your goals to this point, and did you acheive them?
Have you come up with any creative ideas or strategies specific to this game?

Timeline of some events
3640--I've uncovered virtually all of my island, but I see jungles on an island to the west. Wonder what's over there...
3520--Never mind. Just a one-tile island.
3120--Island with plains to SE of main island. Maybe it's big.

2520--finished SH! Settler or Great Wall next?

1440--Met the Koreans. Based on their boat's direction, they're probably west of me.

1400--Looks like the small island to SE has lots of fish!

1320--...and copper!!


As of now, things are going alright. I've discovered 4-5 of my rivals, one of them a Seer. I plan on settling that island ASAP. Lots of gems!

I have 3 cities. Based on some of the other posters, I should probably have about 2 more than I do, but oh well. Lesson learned. Not taking advantage of Charle's Imperialistic trait.

I'm gonna see if a Domination ala 'island hopping' will work, starting with Mansa.

I'm kinda relieved that this game isn't impossibly hard. I can tell I'm inexperienced

 

[Grifftavian]

Adventurer Save.

I moved the Scout S + SW, didn't see any seafood near the Stone, so settled 1E on Turn 0.

Initial builds to 3000 BC = Worker, Warrior and Settler.

Initial research to 3000 BC...
Agriculture (for Rice Farm)
The Wheel (to hook up Rice & Ivory)
Pottery (for Cottages & Granaries)
Mining

@ 3000 BC - One City, Aachen at Size 4


Got off to a fair start with expansion, founded my fifth city in 725 BC, which covered the home island and the small Copper/2 Fish island to the SE. Slowed expansion down after that, only two more cities by 1010 AD, with another to be founded ~3 turns.

Wonders Built

• The Great Lighthouse - T65/1400 BC in Aachen
• The Oracle - T92/575 BC in Prague (took Code of Laws; Confucianism founded in Prague)
• The Colossus - T112/75 BC in Aachen
• Moai Statues - T145/700 AD in Nuremberg (the Copper/2 Fish island city)
• The University of Sankore - T154/880 AD in Aachen

Great People

• T101/350 BC - GScientist in Aachen (builds Academy in Aachen)
• T125/259 AD - GMerchant in Aachen (bulbs Currency)
• T139/580 AD - GMerchant in Nuremberg (partial bulb of Guilds)
• T159/980 AD - GScientist in Aachen (partial bulb of Education)

Status at 1010 AD
Seven Cities, with 8th in ~3 turns
45 population
Sustainable Science = 143 @ 60%

I just have completed research on Education, so immediate plans are to build enough Universities to get Oxford University in Aachen. There is some room for peaceful expansion on the island near Seer Catherine, but Sitting Bull and I are filling up the island near Diviner Mansa, and that could be a potential trouble spot. There is still one former citizen of Uruk that I haven't met. I'll most likely aim for a Space Colony victory, although at this point everyone is Pleased with the HRE, so Diplomatic Victory may be the backup plan.

A very interesting and enjoyable game thus far, and an entertaining and unique back story/game concept. Thanks kcd_swede! Or should I say "Live long and prosper!"

Post 3000 BC Research

Spoiler :

Masonry
Bronze Working
Animal Husbandry
Writing
Polytheism
Priesthood
Metal Casting
Code of Laws (from Oracle; founded Confucianism)
Monotheism
Archery
Iron Working
Alphabet
Mathematics
Meditation (in trade from Sitting Bull)
Monarchy & Horseback Riding (trade from Seer Catherine)
Feudalism (in trade from Diviner Mansa)
Machinery
Currency (bulbed by GM)
Civil Service
Aesthetics (in trade from Joao II)
Paper (trade from Diviner Mansa)
Calendar
Guilds (partial GM bulb)
Philosophy
Construction (in trade from Wang Kong)
Drama (in trade from Joao II)
Education (partial GS bulb)
Literature (in trade from Seer Catherine)
Music (in trade from Joao II)

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest cultural victory.

Hammer poor start with Stone: I will be building Moai and Pyramids in the capital. Before moving the Scout I was planning to settle 1S. Same hammers than 1E and more health and more sea tiles. That's why I moved the Scout NE-SE. It found more Ivory. Now it was a PH and a grass Ivory versus the increased health and sea tiles. I settled 1S, because of the longterm nature of the cultural victory. I consider this decision a mistake. Nothing delays more your victory than slow initial expansion.

I considered going for a religion first. But that would have hampered my development too much.

Start with Fishing and Worker, change to WB when Fishing is discovered. By then I have already realised how small out island is and how resource-poor it is. So I now know that I'll pay dearly for my long term benefit of health. In the short term I'll get out of the island much later than others players that have settled 1E.

By 3000BC I had fish improved, a Worker and Had started a Warrior. I had Fishing Agriculture and Masonry. My worker was going to improve Stone even before Rice, cause hammer are the key.

Researching Masonry so early was my second huge mistake. With so poor a land to work on, my priority should have been to get out of the island, not to progress towards my desired WWs. How do you develop in a seaside start? Everybody knows that, you first get BW for whipping then you go after Sailing. Anything out of that path is a serious delay.

So, you see?, by 3000BC my game is already decided: I won't be getting an Award and my game won't be fast and easy.


Further development up to 1AD:

I insisted on my plans, getting The Wheel and Sailing before BW. My next WB went exploring an realised there was a culture bridge to the East. I settled on Ivory in the NW tip of our island while waiting for Sailing, the following Settler took the 2 fish+copper site. Forgot to revolt to slavery while a settler was on its way.

My 4th city went to a single fish single tile island W. I remember I was desperate about the low quality of the lands available. Now, Had I settled 1E or had I gone for BW earlier, I would have settled the copper island much sooner and I would be sending my new Settlers to Cathy island by now, getting prime land.

1000 BC Stats: 4 cities, 13 pop, 1workers, 2units(1Gal), 1 strategic resources, 1 luxury resources, 2 health resources, 0 great persons, 0 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=44-17-38, 21 bpt at breakeven, 4 culture per turn, 0 great person points per turn, 40 gold, 2monu, 2Gra. 0 religions, 0/0 cottages used, 12 Techs: Pott, PH, Sail, BW. 0 civs killed. 4 hours played.

I got Pyramids 875BC. I waited for 2 turns to revolt to Representation in order to have a new Settler on its way. At the same time GLH was built in a far away land. That hurt.

Then I hired 2 scientists and decided to try for Oracle. Failed to get Confu for 6 turns.
5th city had 2 fish on the gems continent.
Academy 450BC. Shaka met, he has more cities than me.
CS sling 400BC.
6th city in the crabs island between Shaka and Cathy islands. But it was too late. Shaka already had a city and a settler in Cathy's island.
7th city fish and gems, built on rice for another bridge to the West.
Moai 75BC, it didn't go to the capital as planned, but to the copper city. It would be a hammer monster.
Barbs had taken Musa's workers. Where are friends when you need them? How could Musa and his UU allow this?
1AD: In 1 turn I'll settle my 8th city. Shaka has settled allowing me to take the Marble but making it impossible to settle on my intended place. I'm always a cent too short this game.

1AD Stats: 7cities,2set, 32 pop, 1workers, 12units (2Gal),2 strategic resources, 1 luxury resources, 4 health resources, 1 great persons, 2 world wonders, 1 national wonders, food/production/commerce=100-29-125, 78bpt at breakeven , 34 culture per turn, 11 great person points per turn, 200 gold. 0 religions. 0/0 cottages used, 17 Techs: MC, CS, Maths. 0 civs killed. 8 hours played. reli/city, temples, caths== 0,0,0

No religions a 1AD in a cultural game... this is not looking good.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Before moving the Scout I was planning to settle 1S. Same hammers than 1E and more health and more sea tiles. That's why I moved the Scout NE-SE. It found more Ivory. Now it was a PH and a grass Ivory versus the increased health and sea tiles. I settled 1S, because of the longterm nature of the cultural victory. I consider this decision a mistake. Nothing delays more your victory than slow initial expansion.

Not sure I follow this. When did you settle the fish/copper island? I also settled 1S and got fish/copper settled around T50 as my 3rd city. Do you consider that to be late?

 

[jesusin]

Not sure I follow this. When did you settle the fish/copper island? I also settled 1S and got fish/copper settled around T50 as my 3rd city. Do you consider that to be late?

Had I researched BW earlier I would have settled this key place sooner.
I founded 3rd city T57, 1720BC, horribly late.

I won't say how late I consider your date, cause I'm a polite person, but my date is 15% worst than yours